Dragonborn10 Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 This is money UNspent in 2011 that can be added to the 2012 cap. I'll bet you several teams take advantage of this as a way of improving their team. I bet several teams call that unspent money profit and put in their personal bank account....
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted January 25, 2012 Author Posted January 25, 2012 Why don't you do some digging on spending in the NFL. When you realize that 32/32 NFL teams are under the cap. MANY by a greater margin than the Bills you'll understand that if true, carrying over "cap room" wouldn't be a competetitve advantage. It's always true that all 32 NFL teams are under the cap - - NFL rules require it. The question is by how much. I wasn't able to quickly craft a google search that zeroed in on end-of-season 2011 salary cap figures. But here's what I did find with less than exhaustive effort: 1. As of around August 16, 2011 the Bills had the 5th most cap room ($26.2 million) for the 2011 league year of any team: http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/08/16/updated-cap-space-for-all-32-teams/?module=HP11_content_stream 2. As of around August 29, 2011 the Bills had the 6th most cap room ($24.4 million) for the 2011 league year of any team: http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/08/29/updated-salary-cap-space-numbers-for-all-32-teams/ 3. As of Monday, October 3, 2011 the Bills still had the 5th most cap room ($22.7 million) for the 2011 league year of any team: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/04/updated-cap-numbers-as-of-monday/ Now I realize that the $22.7M cap room number was early in the season, and would probably decrease as a result of in-season player transactions. Link # 3 above just happened to be the most recent article about league-wide 2011 salary cap room that I could easily find. Note that the 8/29/11 league-wide figure for cap room was just over $362M, while the first link in Beerball's post # 10 above says that the league-wide cap room figure still exceeded $300M when the 2011 books "closed." That says nothing about the Bills' exact situation, but might be an indication that most teams' available 2011 cap room did not dramatically change after October 3rd. But even if the Bills' available cap room was somehow less than the league median when the books "closed" for 2011, failing to make the "carry over" election would put us at a competitive disadvantage for the 2012 season if other teams took advantage of the opportunity, no?
1B4IDie Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) It's always true that all 32 NFL teams are under the cap - - NFL rules require it. The question is by how much. I wasn't able to quickly craft a google search that zeroed in on end-of-season 2011 salary cap figures. But here's what I did find with less than exhaustive effort: 1. As of around August 16, 2011 the Bills had the 5th most cap room ($26.2 million) for the 2011 league year of any team: http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/08/16/updated-cap-space-for-all-32-teams/?module=HP11_content_stream 2. As of around August 29, 2011 the Bills had the 6th most cap room ($24.4 million) for the 2011 league year of any team: http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/08/29/updated-salary-cap-space-numbers-for-all-32-teams/ 3. As of Monday, October 3, 2011 the Bills still had the 5th most cap room ($22.7 million) for the 2011 league year of any team: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/04/updated-cap-numbers-as-of-monday/ Now I realize that the $22.7M cap room number was early in the season, and would probably decrease as a result of in-season player transactions. Link # 3 above just happened to be the most recent article about league-wide 2011 salary cap room that I could easily find. Note that the 8/29/11 league-wide figure for cap room was just over $362M, while the first link in Beerball's post # 10 above says that the league-wide cap room figure still exceeded $300M when the 2011 books "closed." That says nothing about the Bills' exact situation, but might be an indication that most teams' available 2011 cap room did not dramatically change after October 3rd. But even if the Bills' available cap room was somehow less than the league median when the books "closed" for 2011, failing to make the "carry over" election would put us at a competitive disadvantage for the 2012 season if other teams took advantage of the opportunity, no? No Look at the numbers. You are turning success into relative dollars. Having 14 extra million dollars may be a competetuve advantage if the majority of NFL spent up to the cap and over but that isn't the case. 21 teams have an extra 5 million dollars to spend and can compete evenly for most free agents with that money. 12 teams have over 10 million extra dollars to spend and can compete evenly with the Bills for most big money free agents with that money. NFL teams, the Bills included do not have a cap problem. IN 2011 they're not close to spending up to the cap. So in relative dollars its not much of an advantage when most everyone has extra dollars to spend. Not to mention if you learn anything from Dan Snyder big money free agents is not the way to win championships. Edited January 25, 2012 by Why So Serious?
NoSaint Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 It's always true that all 32 NFL teams are under the cap - - NFL rules require it. The question is by how much. I wasn't able to quickly craft a google search that zeroed in on end-of-season 2011 salary cap figures. But here's what I did find with less than exhaustive effort: 1. As of around August 16, 2011 the Bills had the 5th most cap room ($26.2 million) for the 2011 league year of any team: http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/08/16/updated-cap-space-for-all-32-teams/?module=HP11_content_stream 2. As of around August 29, 2011 the Bills had the 6th most cap room ($24.4 million) for the 2011 league year of any team: http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/08/29/updated-salary-cap-space-numbers-for-all-32-teams/ 3. As of Monday, October 3, 2011 the Bills still had the 5th most cap room ($22.7 million) for the 2011 league year of any team: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/04/updated-cap-numbers-as-of-monday/ Now I realize that the $22.7M cap room number was early in the season, and would probably decrease as a result of in-season player transactions. Link # 3 above just happened to be the most recent article about league-wide 2011 salary cap room that I could easily find. Note that the 8/29/11 league-wide figure for cap room was just over $362M, while the first link in Beerball's post # 10 above says that the league-wide cap room figure still exceeded $300M when the 2011 books "closed." That says nothing about the Bills' exact situation, but might be an indication that most teams' available 2011 cap room did not dramatically change after October 3rd. But even if the Bills' available cap room was somehow less than the league median when the books "closed" for 2011, failing to make the "carry over" election would put us at a competitive disadvantage for the 2012 season if other teams took advantage of the opportunity, no? Fitz! Number is likely closer to 10 with him.
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted January 26, 2012 Author Posted January 26, 2012 Fitz! Number is likely closer to 10 with him. The new Fitz contract would reduce the Bills' available 2011 cap room, but here's how rotoworld says the new contract was structured - - from http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/buf/buffalo-bills 10/28/2011: Signed a seven-year, $62.195 million contract. The deal contains $24 million guaranteed, including a $10 million signing bonus. 2011: $2.8 million, 2012: $2.8 million (+ $5 million option bonus due in March), 2013: $4.25 million (+ $3 million roster bonus), 2014: $4.35 million (+ $3 million roster bonus), 2015: $7.2 million, 2016: $8.75 million, 2017: $9.4 million, 2018: Free Agent I don't know how accurate rotoworld is, but using their info, the new Fitz contract would result in a charge against the 2011 Bills salary cap of about $4.229 million (his full $2.8M 2011 salary plus 1/7th of the $10M signing bonus). For simplicity, let's ignore the facts that (i) the reported October 3rd cap room figure must have already included some base salary figure for Fitz (which would make the net increase in Fitz's 2011 cap figure caused by the new contract less than $4.229M), and (ii) the remaining pro-rated portion of whatever signing bonus Fitz received under his old contract still has to be applied against the Bills salary cap - - it doesn't just disappear - - but I'm not sure if it all counts in 2011 or if it gets spread out over the full 7 year term of the new contract (either way, the remaining pro-rated portion of the signing bonus from Fitz's old contract would increase Fitz's 2011 cap figure above $4.229M). With the above assumptions for simplicity, the new Fitz contract reduces the Bills 2011 salary cap room by only $4.229 million. The team would still have roughly $22.7M - $4.229M = $18.471M in unused 2011 cap room (before the effect of any other player transactions that took place after 10/3/11).
NoSaint Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 The new Fitz contract would reduce the Bills' available 2011 cap room, but here's how rotoworld says the new contract was structured - - from http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/buf/buffalo-bills I don't know how accurate rotoworld is, but using their info, the new Fitz contract would result in a charge against the 2011 Bills salary cap of about $4.229 million (his full $2.8M 2011 salary plus 1/7th of the $10M signing bonus). For simplicity, let's ignore the facts that (i) the reported October 3rd cap room figure must have already included some base salary figure for Fitz (which would make the net increase in Fitz's 2011 cap figure caused by the new contract less than $4.229M), and (ii) the remaining pro-rated portion of whatever signing bonus Fitz received under his old contract still has to be applied against the Bills salary cap - - it doesn't just disappear - - but I'm not sure if it all counts in 2011 or if it gets spread out over the full 7 year term of the new contract (either way, the remaining pro-rated portion of the signing bonus from Fitz's old contract would increase Fitz's 2011 cap figure above $4.229M). With the above assumptions for simplicity, the new Fitz contract reduces the Bills 2011 salary cap room by only $4.229 million. The team would still have roughly $22.7M - $4.229M = $18.471M in unused 2011 cap room (before the effect of any other player transactions that took place after 10/3/11). I believe that if a signing bonus, it's a 4 year spread Also, I believe the bills whenever possible are using roster, not signing bonuses to keep the cap dollars in the year spent. I can't speak to his, but this has been the general approach from what I've gathered (and is the only way to functionally run cash to cap moving forward)
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted January 26, 2012 Author Posted January 26, 2012 I believe that if a signing bonus, it's a 4 year spread Also, I believe the bills whenever possible are using roster, not signing bonuses to keep the cap dollars in the year spent. I can't speak to his, but this has been the general approach from what I've gathered (and is the only way to functionally run cash to cap moving forward) Now that you mention it, I vaguely recall reading somewhere that there is a limit to how many years a signing bonus can be spread over - - but I don't have a link. My hazy recollection is that the limit was 5 years total. Whether the pro-ration limit is either 4 or 5 years, that would increase Fitz's 2011 cap figure above the $4.229M figure, but not by a huge amount. It would still leave the Bills with over $17M of unused 2011 cap room, if my math is right. BTW, the rotoworld info includes a $10M signing bonus, and a total of $11M in roster and/or "option" bonuses. Seems like players (and their agents) would always want at least some of the money in the form of an upfront signing bonus.
NoSaint Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Now that you mention it, I vaguely recall reading somewhere that there is a limit to how many years a signing bonus can be spread over - - but I don't have a link. My hazy recollection is that the limit was 5 years total. Whether the pro-ration limit is either 4 or 5 years, that would increase Fitz's 2011 cap figure above the $4.229M figure, but not by a huge amount. It would still leave the Bills with over $17M of unused 2011 cap room, if my math is right. BTW, the rotoworld info includes a $10M signing bonus, and a total of $11M in roster and/or "option" bonuses. Seems like players (and their agents) would always want at least some of the money in the form of an upfront signing bonus. The roster bonus can be due the day you sign. It's an accounting term truly, not logistics I believe. And correct- it's def a 5 year spread. Edited January 26, 2012 by NoSaint
H2o Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 Or.... You could put bonuses in one year. And keep salaries lower in the future. You don't pay guys the same amount every year. Front loaded contracts that pay out big the first year.
HuSeYiN1978 Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 This thread is too smart for my taste... I respect u guys for even reading all into the cba rules and such...
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