EasternOHBillsFan Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Last time I checked it was a hell of a lot easier to get a tank from the Ruhr to France than Volgograd. Logistics? What does that have to do with Monty not moving fast enough in the first 5 days, wasting the initiative, and then designing an awful attack that failed miserably and got a lot of Canadians killed? They had all their supplies, they just had a bad plan, and a poncy commander. What were the 5 things Eisenhower credited? I always forget. I know one of them was the bazooka. Was spam in there? I know exactly what you mean, no explanation required. The ability for the USSR to obtain badly needed materiel for its military through Iraq was crucial in the war effort, as was the prevention of oil to Germany in the Balkans. What astonishes me even to this day is the underappreciation of the Soviet war effort in winning World War II. The HUAAC is an extension of the old Red Scare of 1919 and 1920, except in this case Miss Rand and others chose to terrorize Americans by actively supporting the committee in its witch hunts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I know exactly what you mean, no explanation required. The ability for the USSR to obtain badly needed materiel for its military through Iraq was crucial in the war effort, as was the prevention of oil to Germany in the Balkans. What astonishes me even to this day is the underappreciation of the Soviet war effort in winning World War II. The HUAAC is an extension of the old Red Scare of 1919 and 1920, except in this case Miss Rand and others chose to terrorize Americans by actively supporting the committee in its witch hunts. Like Alger Hiss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_In_Norfolk Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Like Alger Hiss? Oh, do tell us about Alger Hiss, like what he was convicted of and all. This should be interesting..... I know exactly what you mean, no explanation required. The ability for the USSR to obtain badly needed materiel for its military through Iraq was crucial in the war effort, as was the prevention of oil to Germany in the Balkans. What astonishes me even to this day is the underappreciation of the Soviet war effort in winning World War II. The HUAAC is an extension of the old Red Scare of 1919 and 1920, except in this case Miss Rand and others chose to terrorize Americans by actively supporting the committee in its witch hunts. Good point about the oil. We bombed Germany's synthetic oil plants also, their war machine was running on empty by 1944, as was Japan's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Oh, do tell us about Alger Hiss, like what he was convicted of and all. This should be interesting..... http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/01/obama-blames-press-for-his-cold-and-aloof-image-111489.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Oh, do tell us about Alger Hiss, like what he was convicted of and all. This should be interesting..... I don't feel like a debate with a fool, so do you're own research. Or can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 It's so much fun watching you all pretend you know what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 It's so much fun watching you all pretend you know what you're talking about. It's even more fun watching you pretend that only you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I know exactly what you mean, no explanation required. The ability for the USSR to obtain badly needed materiel for its military through Iraq was crucial in the war effort, as was the prevention of oil to Germany in the Balkans. What astonishes me even to this day is the underappreciation of the Soviet war effort in winning World War II. The HUAAC is an extension of the old Red Scare of 1919 and 1920, except in this case Miss Rand and others chose to terrorize Americans by actively supporting the committee in its witch hunts. Their sacrifices are certainly appreciated by me. I can't even imagine being a company-grade officer in that army in that war. I've tried, and I can't. But, you can also blame the machinations of the Communist state for the scale of their casualties as well. Stalin did have to kill off 80% his officers before the war...because historically that's what Communists have to do to stay in power. The red scare thing would be valid....except lo and behold, we found out that there were in fact Soviet spies in the State Department, etc. Whether Rand or HUAAC actually knew about any of this, and weren't just talking schit? We can never know that fully. Could be that they only had suspicions and were trying to smoke people out, or, it could be that they were just as callous, self-aggrandizing, and full of it as the Hollywood movies said they were? Just saying, there were a lot of witch hunts, and in most cases this was terrible, but, there were some witches too. It's not a black and white issue as much as it's been made out to be. I wonder though....what would have happened to Greta Garbo if she had gone over to Italy and sat in an an anti-aircraft gun in 1936? Would actors today all line up behind her and call her "courageous"? Sean Penn goes to Venezuela today and nobody is holding hearings over it...so, if anything, I think we are more tolerant of assclowns now, because we know that they are assclowns. They don't have the effect that they once had. And come on, it's not like the general public takes socialism/Communism seriously anymore. 20% of the country does, but who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Their sacrifices are certainly appreciated by me. I can't even imagine being a company-grade officer in that army in that war. I've tried, and I can't. But, you can also blame the machinations of the Communist state for the scale of their casualties as well. Stalin did have to kill off 80% his officers before the war...because historically that's what Communists have to do to stay in power. The red scare thing would be valid....except lo and behold, we found out that there were in fact Soviet spies in the State Department, etc. Whether Rand or HUAAC actually knew about any of this, and weren't just talking schit? We can never know that fully. Could be that they only had suspicions and were trying to smoke people out, or, it could be that they were just as callous, self-aggrandizing, and full of it as the Hollywood movies said they were? Just saying, there were a lot of witch hunts, and in most cases this was terrible, but, there were some witches too. It's not a black and white issue as much as it's been made out to be. I wonder though....what would have happened to Greta Garbo if she had gone over to Italy and sat in an an anti-aircraft gun in 1936? Would actors today all line up behind her and call her "courageous"? Sean Penn goes to Venezuela today and nobody is holding hearings over it...so, if anything, I think we are more tolerant of assclowns now, because we know that they are assclowns. They don't have the effect that they once had. And come on, it's not like the general public takes socialism/Communism seriously anymore. 20% of the country does, but who cares? Sacrifices? What else could they do, they were invaded by their would be partner in carving up Europe. I am sure the post war citizens of- Yugoslavia Albania Bulgaria Czechoslovakia East Germany Poland Romania Hungary All where thankful for the Allied war aid that enabled the Soviets to "liberate" their country's. In fact a case could be made that if Germany had succeeded in occupying Russia that country would have become a Democracy after the inevitable Allied victory over Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Sacrifices? What else could they do, they were invaded by their would be partner in carving up Europe. I am sure the post war citizens of- Yugoslavia Albania Bulgaria Czechoslovakia East Germany Poland Romania Hungary All where thankful for the Allied war aid that enabled the Soviets to "liberate" their country's. In fact a case could be made that if Germany had succeeded in occupying Russia that country would have become a Democracy after the inevitable Allied victory over Germany. Germany stabbed the USSR in the back, and we aided them in keeping the USSR going so they could grind at the best of the Wehrmacht. We could not have anticipated the actions of Stalin after 1944, and of course what happened was a result of winning the war. Any confrontation by the Allies over USSR demands could have triggered a continuation of the war against the USSR, to be sure. Are you saying that we should have let Germany defeat the USSR???? In that case, we would have lost the war, giving the Nazis a free supply of oil and the means to produce arms, giving them a one front war and Japanese aid. You are really scaring me with that theory! Wow.... The red scare thing would be valid....except lo and behold, we found out that there were in fact Soviet spies in the State Department, etc. Whether Rand or HUAAC actually knew about any of this, and weren't just talking schit? We can never know that fully. Could be that they only had suspicions and were trying to smoke people out, or, it could be that they were just as callous, self-aggrandizing, and full of it as the Hollywood movies said they were? Just saying, there were a lot of witch hunts, and in most cases this was terrible, but, there were some witches too. It's not a black and white issue as much as it's been made out to be. I wonder though....what would have happened to Greta Garbo if she had gone over to Italy and sat in an an anti-aircraft gun in 1936? Would actors today all line up behind her and call her "courageous"? Sean Penn goes to Venezuela today and nobody is holding hearings over it...so, if anything, I think we are more tolerant of assclowns now, because we know that they are assclowns. They don't have the effect that they once had. And come on, it's not like the general public takes socialism/Communism seriously anymore. 20% of the country does, but who cares? This HUAAC ruined the careers of many INNOCENT people, just like Salem took the lives of many innocent people. These people made a name for themselves by looking for a 'guilt by association', i.e. since your friend has a friend that is a Communist and since you won't say anything bad about your friend, you must be guilty. These people did irreparable damage to others lives and they should be vilified- is it really a good policy to ruin the lives of 99 out of 100 people to find 1 person that is truly guilty? Shameful, disgraceful conduct. Remember Burgess Meredith? He didn't work for YEARS, years wasted because of the HUAAC... that man was a good man, a decent man, and yet he was blacklisted. An honest democracy-loving, red blooded American... CAPTAIN in the Army Air Forces, one of many. Edited January 22, 2012 by BmoreBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Germany stabbed the USSR in the back, and we aided them in keeping the USSR going so they could grind at the best of the Wehrmacht. We could not have anticipated the actions of Stalin after 1944, and of course what happened was a result of winning the war. Any confrontation by the Allies over USSR demands could have triggered a continuation of the war against the USSR, to be sure. Are you saying that we should have let Germany defeat the USSR???? In that case, we would have lost the war, giving the Nazis a free supply of oil and the means to produce arms, giving them a one front war and Japanese aid. You are really scaring me with that theory! Wow.... They where anticipated and expected. Russia's pre war dream of expansion into Europe was hardly a secret. Why do you think they signed a non-aggression pact with Germany in the first place? No we would have not lost the war. All the oil in the world is of no use when your industery is bombed to rubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Are you saying that we should have let Germany defeat the USSR???? In that case, we would have lost the war, giving the Nazis a free supply of oil and the means to produce arms, giving them a one front war and Japanese aid. You are really scaring me with that theory! Wow.... Yeah, that would've happened. Germany couldn't even win the war in '42, and the Russians were practically trying to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Yeah, that would've happened. Germany couldn't even win the war in '42, and the Russians were practically trying to lose. The statement was made that if Germany HAD overcome Russia, not IF they could have. They where anticipated and expected. Russia's pre war dream of expansion into Europe was hardly a secret. Why do you think they signed a non-aggression pact with Germany in the first place? No we would have not lost the war. All the oil in the world is of no use when your industery is bombed to rubble. At that time, the USSR was most certainly known to want Poland and part of Germany for reparations, but the other countries were given away by Churchill to keep the peace instead of hard bargaining. Stalin only took what he could get away with... The Germans has a plan to seize the Ploesti oil fields and much more, but of course the loss at Stalingrad and thin movements south buried that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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