RealityCheck Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 It's funny--reading "Education of a Coach," which is about Bellichick, he says in there pretty clearly that he thinks you can get an o-lineman anywhere in the draft and just coach them up. Of course, several years later, they take Light and Solder with fairly high picks; maybe he's since changed his mind. How does anywhere in the draft mean that you can't pick one high in the draft?
thewildrabbit Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 The body of work from Levy was a disaster. You can name a list of players that were good or capable but in general he was a dismal failure. He was most responsible for hiring Jauron. Are you suggesting that was a good hire? It was Jauron along with Levy who ushered in the light and quick roster mentality that Nix is in the process of changing to a bigger and stronger roster. It was during Levy's tenure that Whitner was drafted ahead of Ngata. It was under Levy that the Bills traded up to get Paul P when there were better LBs on the board. McCargo was a trade up player. How did that work out? Are you trying to say that the acquisitions of Dockery and Walker at premium salaries was a smart move? I don't think it was. Buddy Nix's record over the past couple of years is by no means stellar. What he is doing is rebuilding the roster assembled under Levy/Jauron/Modrak/Brandon. In my view the Levy era was a disaster. He is a good man who was not equipped for the job. Nix is still working to undo the damage. If you think the body of work from Levy was a disaster, then what about Nix so far.. Armageddon? Do I really need to keep reminding you that 7-9, 2x will always beat 6-10. 4-12? Spiller over JPP, Anthony Davis, Pouncey is just as bad as Whitner over Ngata, maybe even worse. Because up till the FJ injury Spiller was a back up, whereas Whitner was a starter his entire time in Buffalo. Dockery and Walker were at least valid attempts in free agency to bolster the line. I think they both beat Cornell Green hands down Nix now chooses to find his players off the waiver wire. IMO Levy did better, it was the HC to be blamed for failure to properly motivate his players Levy may have been a disaster in the head coach he chose, but his body of work in regards to player acquisition is far superior to what Nix has done. Dude seriously, get over what happened over 4-5 years ago, let it go. Start thinking of how badly this new GM is doing. Even Brandon - Jauron did better with the draft. Stevie Johnson, Bell, Wood, Byrd, Levitre. 5 starters in two years vs one starter who was the #3 overall draft pick to boot
mob16151 Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 If you think the body of work from Levy was a disaster, then what about Nix so far.. Armageddon? Do I really need to keep reminding you that 7-9, 2x will always beat 6-10. 4-12? Spiller over JPP, Anthony Davis, Pouncey is just as bad as Whitner over Ngata, maybe even worse. Because up till the FJ injury Spiller was a back up, whereas Whitner was a starter his entire time in Buffalo. Dockery and Walker were at least valid attempts in free agency to bolster the line. I think they both beat Cornell Green hands down Nix now chooses to find his players off the waiver wire. IMO Levy did better, it was the HC to be blamed for failure to properly motivate his players Levy may have been a disaster in the head coach he chose, but his body of work in regards to player acquisition is far superior to what Nix has done. Dude seriously, get over what happened over 4-5 years ago, let it go. Start thinking of how badly this new GM is doing. Even Brandon - Jauron did better with the draft. Stevie Johnson, Bell, Wood, Byrd, Levitre. 5 starters in two years vs one starter who was the #3 overall draft pick to boot This post is so..........screwed. You really wanted the Bills to take a chance on a 1 year wonder like JPP,a headcase like Davis, or another interior lineman, when that was one of the few positions we actually had talent at? Urbik and Pears, is at least the equal of Dockery, and Walker, but way to cherry pick some names. (See I can do it to.) AS to the starter thing, yea we start Johnson,Bell,Wood,Byrd and Levitre, it's just to bad, only one of their First rd picks panned out isn't it. So good late in the draft, but epic fail in round one is ok with you?
thewildrabbit Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 This post is so..........screwed. You really wanted the Bills to take a chance on a 1 year wonder like JPP,a headcase like Davis, or another interior lineman, when that was one of the few positions we actually had talent at? Urbik and Pears, is at least the equal of Dockery, and Walker, but way to cherry pick some names. (See I can do it to.) AS to the starter thing, yea we start Johnson,Bell,Wood,Byrd and Levitre, it's just to bad, only one of their First rd picks panned out isn't it. So good late in the draft, but epic fail in round one is ok with you? You are calling JPP a 1 year wonder and Anthony Davis head cases, for exactly what reason? Have any proof of this BS you are spouting ? Because JPP is a monster and would be an upgrade to the team over any current Buffalo Bill. Davis would have locked down a spot that was pure chaos almost the entire 2010 season and still is a weak spot on the team. Urbik and Pears aren't very good in my view either, the Bills still allow pressure after 3 seconds even with Bell, Wood & Levitre healthy. What are you talking about in that last sentence? What epic fail? Whitner was a full time stater his entire time in Buffalo and now with the same with the 49ers. Whitners hit on Saints starting RB Pierre Thomas and knocking him out of that play-off game against the Saints set the tone for the entire game. Same with Marshawn Lynch who made the pro bowl as a Bill, not only that Lynch had over 1200 yards this year and 12 TDs, better then any current Bills RB this season McKelvin is still with the team as a nickle back and much like Aaron Maybin as well as many Bills players might just be a product of bad coaching, as Maybin had 6 sacks with the Jets this season. Maybin had zero sacks in his two years with the bills. Eric Wood was also a first round pick. Only McCargo was and still is a complete bust as a draft pick. So my reference was to starters, while you want to compare first round picks. One player starting out of two years of drafting still stinks in my view, no matter how you look at it.
mob16151 Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 You are calling JPP a 1 year wonder and Anthony Davis head cases, for exactly what reason? Have any proof of this BS you are spouting ? Because JPP is a monster and would be an upgrade to the team over any current Buffalo Bill. Davis would have locked down a spot that was pure chaos almost the entire 2010 season and still is a weak spot on the team. Urbik and Pears aren't very good in my view either, the Bills still allow pressure after 3 seconds even with Bell, Wood & Levitre healthy. What are you talking about in that last sentence? What epic fail? Whitner was a full time stater his entire time in Buffalo and now with the same with the 49ers. Whitners hit on Saints starting RB Pierre Thomas and knocking him out of that play-off game against the Saints set the tone for the entire game. Same with Marshawn Lynch who made the pro bowl as a Bill, not only that Lynch had over 1200 yards this year and 12 TDs, better then any current Bills RB this season McKelvin is still with the team as a nickle back and much like Aaron Maybin as well as many Bills players might just be a product of bad coaching, as Maybin had 6 sacks with the Jets this season. Maybin had zero sacks in his two years with the bills. Eric Wood was also a first round pick. Only McCargo was and still is a complete bust as a draft pick. So my reference was to starters, while you want to compare first round picks. One player starting out of two years of drafting still stinks in my view, no matter how you look at it. Sure do. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/08/maturity-concerns-swirl-regarding-jason-pierre-paul/ http://philly.stats.com/nfldraft/players.asp?id=157916 I smell backtracking.didn't you say earlier that taking Whitner over Ngata was an epic fail, and yet now your saying we should have kept him, when he wasn't even the best safety on our roster last season. And yea Lynch did great, but do you really think he was gonna finish the season with more total yards than Freddie, if FJ doesn't go down with an injury? And Maybin had six sacks, but a lot of that has to do with the fact, that the Jets seconary can lock recievers down, not Maybin having developed any pass rushing ability. He runs past the Qb,then circles back, which accounted for 4 or 5 of his sacks. Beat a runningback on another one, but trust me, he still sucks. And I know Wood was a first rounder. He was pretty much the only one the previous regime hit on. Whitner....................not so much. Unless you think the Bills scorers accurately award tackles. (protip: They don't) So in conclusion, Levy was horrible, Nix has been better. And about Nix not acquiring an elite pass rusher. Levy never got one either. The last GM of the Bills to draft an elite pass rusher was Donahoe. WHo was far and away our best GM of the 2000's.
thewildrabbit Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 Sure do. http://profootballta...on-pierre-paul/ http://philly.stats....s.asp?id=157916 I smell backtracking.didn't you say earlier that taking Whitner over Ngata was an epic fail, and yet now your saying we should have kept him, when he wasn't even the best safety on our roster last season. And yea Lynch did great, but do you really think he was gonna finish the season with more total yards than Freddie, if FJ doesn't go down with an injury? And Maybin had six sacks, but a lot of that has to do with the fact, that the Jets seconary can lock recievers down, not Maybin having developed any pass rushing ability. He runs past the Qb,then circles back, which accounted for 4 or 5 of his sacks. Beat a runningback on another one, but trust me, he still sucks. And I know Wood was a first rounder. He was pretty much the only one the previous regime hit on. Whitner....................not so much. Unless you think the Bills scorers accurately award tackles. (protip: They don't) So in conclusion, Levy was horrible, Nix has been better. And about Nix not acquiring an elite pass rusher. Levy never got one either. The last GM of the Bills to draft an elite pass rusher was Donahoe. WHo was far and away our best GM of the 2000's. Neither of those links provides concrete proof that either of those two players had serious enough problems to keep them from being drafted in the top 15, all that was is speculation and opinion. Mike Mayock stated JPP was a top ten pick, i believe him. The only thing you smell is the BS you are trying to stir up The only thing I've been saying about any of those 1st round picks like Whitner is that they became starters on day one. Levy didn't need to acquire a top pass rusher as he already had Aaron Schobel who had 14 sacks in 2006, he wasn't desperate for a pass rusher like the Bills have been for 3 years now. So in conclusion if you think Nix is better... well, you are delusional. Like I stated eariler, even Brandon & Jauron did better. One solid starter out of two drafts says it all, and that sole starter was the #3 overall... that is pathetic!!
mob16151 Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 Neither of those links provides concrete proof that either of those two players had serious enough problems to keep them from being drafted in the top 15, all that was is speculation and opinion. Mike Mayock stated JPP was a top ten pick, i believe him. The only thing you smell is the BS you are trying to stir up The only thing I've been saying about any of those 1st round picks like Whitner is that they became starters on day one. Levy didn't need to acquire a top pass rusher as he already had Aaron Schobel who had 14 sacks in 2006, he wasn't desperate for a pass rusher like the Bills have been for 3 years now. So in conclusion if you think Nix is better... well, you are delusional. Like I stated eariler, even Brandon & Jauron did better. One solid starter out of two drafts says it all, and that sole starter was the #3 overall... that is pathetic!! So Jones,Spiller,Rodgers,Williams,Dareus,Sheppard,Nelson,and , where what? Figments of our imagination? Brought in by the previous regime? I'm confused, because by my count, all of those players have either started multiple games, or recieved significant playing time. And as for those links..google is your friend, there were plenty of reasons for the Bills to steer clear of both JPP, and Davis. As a matter of fact here, are the first five google results for Anthony Davis. http://philly.stats.com/nfldraft/players.asp?id=157916 http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2010/03/former_rutgers_lineman_anthony.html http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/10/anthony-davis-has-odd-day/ http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/giants/all_eyes_on_davis_OICcg8XHLCvdHibMdxsfBK http://www.csnphilly.com/04/12/10/NFL-Draft-Profile-OT-Anthony-Davis/landing.html?blockID=214852 You see the trend here?
thewildrabbit Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 So Jones,Spiller,Rodgers,Williams,Dareus,Sheppard,Nelson,and , where what? Figments of our imagination? Brought in by the previous regime? I'm confused, because by my count, all of those players have either started multiple games, or recieved significant playing time. And as for those links..google is your friend, there were plenty of reasons for the Bills to steer clear of both JPP, and Davis. As a matter of fact here, are the first five google results for Anthony Davis. http://philly.stats....s.asp?id=157916 http://www.nj.com/je...an_anthony.html http://profootballta...is-has-odd-day/ http://www.nypost.co...HLCvdHibMdxsfBK http://www.csnphilly...?blockID=214852 You see the trend here? If you actually read my posts I was stating that the only player that started for the Buffalo Bills on day one at the beginning of the season, and not because of injuries to other players. That player was Marcell Darius the #3 overall pick. That is two years, two drafts, one starter! Someone earlier pointed out that they thought that ...."" Bottom line is that Nix inherited a team in total shambles"" If the team was in total shambles how does not one player start from the 2010 draft class and only one player start from the 2012? There may eventually be lots of starters out of both those draft classes, who knows. All Ive been stating that if indeed the team was a total wreck when Nix / Gailey took over. how does not one player make it to starter in 2010? Look back to the Levy era 2006-2007 Donte Whitner, Ko Simpson, Kyle Williams 2006, Marshawn Lynch, Paul Posluszny 2007, two years, 5 starters. Jeez, good thing the 49ers or NY Giants didn't read those posts, otherwise the Giants might not have the #4 overall sack leader this season with 16.5 sacks or the 49ers might not have drafted a lock down RT for the last two years. Who really cares what some obscure website says about a player, Its how the big boys grade them. Scout.com had JPP rated as the 14th best player in the 2010 NFL draft, while Davis was rated the 24th best player, and 5th ranked OT. Funny thing that the 49ers saw something in the kid and traded up to the 11th pick to draft him, thereby solidifying a definite position of NEED for them. The 49ers spent two first rounders in 2010 on a RT and G. Another interesting thing is Brian Bulaga was rated as the 10th best player who the 49ers passed over to take Davis, the Packers took him at #23. http://profootball.s...nid=124&yr=2010
mob16151 Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) If you actually read my posts I was stating that the only player that started for the Buffalo Bills on day one at the beginning of the season, and not because of injuries to other players. That player was Marcell Darius the #3 overall pick. That is two years, two drafts, one starter! Someone earlier pointed out that they thought that ...."" Bottom line is that Nix inherited a team in total shambles"" If the team was in total shambles how does not one player start from the 2010 draft class and only one player start from the 2012? There may eventually be lots of starters out of both those draft classes, who knows. All Ive been stating that if indeed the team was a total wreck when Nix / Gailey took over. how does not one player make it to starter in 2010? Look back to the Levy era 2006-2007 Donte Whitner, Ko Simpson, Kyle Williams 2006, Marshawn Lynch, Paul Posluszny 2007, two years, 5 starters. Jeez, good thing the 49ers or NY Giants didn't read those posts, otherwise the Giants might not have the #4 overall sack leader this season with 16.5 sacks or the 49ers might not have drafted a lock down RT for the last two years. Who really cares what some obscure website says about a player, Its how the big boys grade them. Scout.com had JPP rated as the 14th best player in the 2010 NFL draft, while Davis was rated the 24th best player, and 5th ranked OT. Funny thing that the 49ers saw something in the kid and traded up to the 11th pick to draft him, thereby solidifying a definite position of NEED for them. The 49ers spent two first rounders in 2010 on a RT and G. Another interesting thing is Brian Bulaga was rated as the 10th best player who the 49ers passed over to take Davis, the Packers took him at #23. http://profootball.s...nid=124&yr=2010 I find it hilarious that you posted a link that had Spiller ranked ahead of both Davis and JPP, and Bulaga. And yea hooray for the 49ers, they traded up to take a RT that had attitude questions. And you realize JPP played 1 year, of major college football. After the Maybin debacle, there was no way in hell the Bills were going neat him with a ten foot pole. If they were going to draft any pass rusher, it would have been Graham.Who was also ranked lower than Spiller. Edited January 23, 2012 by mob16151
JohnC Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) If you think the body of work from Levy was a disaster, then what about Nix so far.. Armageddon? Do I really need to keep reminding you that 7-9, 2x will always beat 6-10. 4-12? Spiller over JPP, Anthony Davis, Pouncey is just as bad as Whitner over Ngata, maybe even worse. Because up till the FJ injury Spiller was a back up, whereas Whitner was a starter his entire time in Buffalo. Dockery and Walker were at least valid attempts in free agency to bolster the line. I think they both beat Cornell Green hands down Nix now chooses to find his players off the waiver wire. IMO Levy did better, it was the HC to be blamed for failure to properly motivate his players Levy may have been a disaster in the head coach he chose, but his body of work in regards to player acquisition is far superior to what Nix has done. Dude seriously, get over what happened over 4-5 years ago, let it go. Start thinking of how badly this new GM is doing. Even Brandon - Jauron did better with the draft. Stevie Johnson, Bell, Wood, Byrd, Levitre. 5 starters in two years vs one starter who was the #3 overall draft pick to boot If you believe that the Levy/Jauron tandem wss more accomplished in player personnel staffing than the Nix/Gailey tandem then you are in the company of a very small minority of people. Nix is still in the process of rectifying the mess left by the prior regimes. He took over a team that was closer to being an expansion team than a normal competitive team. Sometimes it is better to more thoroughly remake a roster than to change it on the margins. So it shouldn't be surprising that the record of the team in the rebuild process is going to go south. But if done correctly you have a better chance of developing into a competitve team rather than a continuous 7-9 boring Jauron type of team. I'm not in total agreement with a lot of the Nix decisions, especially his first year's draft. I thought he did an excellent job in his second draft. But I am comfortable saying that the Nix rigime is much more competent that the Jauron/Levy regime. At least there is a possibility of hope compared to the wretched mediocrity of the prior regimes. Edited January 23, 2012 by JohnC
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 I find it hilarious that you posted a link that had Spiller ranked ahead of both Davis and JPP, and Bulaga. And yea hooray for the 49ers, they traded up to take a RT that had attitude questions. And you realize JPP played 1 year, of major college football. After the Maybin debacle, there was no way in hell the Bills were going neat him with a ten foot poll. If they were going to draft any pass rusher, it would have been Graham..who was also ranked lower than Spiller. You're 100% right. The guy is living in hindsight. Davis had work ethic issues and a questionable character. He is hardly some sort of star RT and it is debatable if he is better than PEars. JPP is the ultimate hidsight guy. Obviously if we would have known how good he would be, he would be a top 5. But picking a guy that high because he could do a backflip after picking Maybin the year before is a move that would have been killer here.
JohnC Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 You're 100% right. The guy is living in hindsight. Davis had work ethic issues and a questionable character. He is hardly some sort of star RT and it is debatable if he is better than PEars. JPP is the ultimate hidsight guy. Obviously if we would have known how good he would be, he would be a top 5. But picking a guy that high because he could do a backflip after picking Maybin the year before is a move that would have been killer here. You make a very keen observation that when you make a draft pick you have to consider factors that you know at the time, not in the future. JPP has turned out to be a very good player. But you have to acknowledge that he is playing on a line with three other very good players. If you double up on one player then you are freeing another player to go one on one. I have no doubt that if JPP played with Buffalo he would have received much more attention by the offense. I understand why the Spiller pick has drawn so many criticisms because there were so many other needs. What I don't understand is why after a player has demonstrated that he is capable of being a big play player that those critics can't acknowledge the point that he was not only a reasonable pick but also a quality pick. Spiller's draft class has some very questionable picks, most notably the Troup pick. Spiller should not be the pick most challenged.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 You make a very keen observation that when you make a draft pick you have to consider factors that you know at the time, not in the future. JPP has turned out to be a very good player. But you have to acknowledge that he is playing on a line with three other very good players. If you double up on one player then you are freeing another player to go one on one. I have no doubt that if JPP played with Buffalo he would have received much more attention by the offense. I understand why the Spiller pick has drawn so many criticisms because there were so many other needs. What I don't understand is why after a player has demonstrated that he is capable of being a big play player that those critics can't acknowledge the point that he was not only a reasonable pick but also a quality pick. Spiller's draft class has some very questionable picks, most notably the Troup pick. Spiller should not be the pick most challenged. Well said. Again like Cruz, JPP greatly benefits from his supporting cast. The Gmen are loaded on the defensive line. They have 5 or 6 guys who are starter material. As good as JPP is, it is very hard to double team him because of how good the other players are. The Giants' GM has done a great job and I cetainly won't mind if the Bills loaded up on pass rushers in thie draft. You can never have enough and it makes your entire defense better. As for killing the Spiller pick, I don't get it. The only thing that was missing for the guy was opportunity. He can be a very good rb in this league. FJax is amazing but for how long. In a way, it was almost like an Aaron Rodgers-Brett Farve situation. Spiller need to learn how to be a NFL rb and is getting an education from a very good one.
JohnC Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 Well said. Again like Cruz, JPP greatly benefits from his supporting cast. The Gmen are loaded on the defensive line. They have 5 or 6 guys who are starter material. As good as JPP is, it is very hard to double team him because of how good the other players are. The Giants' GM has done a great job and I cetainly won't mind if the Bills loaded up on pass rushers in thie draft. You can never have enough and it makes your entire defense better. As for killing the Spiller pick, I don't get it. The only thing that was missing for the guy was opportunity. He can be a very good rb in this league. FJax is amazing but for how long. In a way, it was almost like an Aaron Rodgers-Brett Farve situation. Spiller need to learn how to be a NFL rb and is getting an education from a very good one. What a lot of people fail to acknowledge is that in Nix's drafts his first three round picks in two years he has selected five defensive players and one offensive player. Nix took over a roster that was in a rebuild mode. Not all needs are going to be addressed in such a short time frame. What this desperate franchise needs more than anything is making its draft picks count, regardless of the position. If that strategy is executed well then this franchise will be on a road to recovery.
thewildrabbit Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) What a lot of people fail to acknowledge is that in Nix's drafts his first three round picks in two years he has selected five defensive players and one offensive player. Nix took over a roster that was in a rebuild mode. Not all needs are going to be addressed in such a short time frame. What this desperate franchise needs more than anything is making its draft picks count, regardless of the position. If that strategy is executed well then this franchise will be on a road to recovery. What a crock, i really enjoy reading these delusional posts about how it will take years to fill every need. Making draft picks count, that's why Spiller has been a back up RB for a year and a half. Not one of you has acknowledged the fact that if the team was desperate for so many players when Nix first took over, why then did he make the statement "'we are not that far away", he didn't think it was in rebuild mode when he made that statement. It was only after game 5 of the season that he recanted. If the team was in such a desperate state as you all claim, then how come not one player from that 2010 draft started on day one...replacing all those incompetent players from the Jauron / Levy era? The starting QB is from Jauron / Levy The starting RB is from Jauron / levy The starting #1 WR is from Jauron / Levy most of the O line is from Jauron / Levy 3 of 5 Special Teams P / K from Jauron / Levy The defense has the most changes brought about by Nix, and with all those changes it still stinks about as bad as any defense Jauron fielded. Still we will need to see who the starters are in 2012 after everyone recovers from injuries. Kyle Williams pro bowler (injured) - Jairus Byrd- George Wilson- Spencer Johnson- Chris Kelsay- Dwan Edwards- Drayton Florence still 5 of the 10 are from Jauron / Levy Oh yea, you guys make a great argument about how bad that Jauron / Levy era devastated the team. If Poz and Whitner didn't choose to play elsewhere they would still be starting. Let me know when Gailey / Nix finally change the core of the team to players they acquired, and see what record the team has then. Edited January 23, 2012 by Fear the Beard
smapdi Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Neither of those links provides concrete proof that either of those two players had serious enough problems to keep them from being drafted in the top 15, all that was is speculation and opinion. Mike Mayock stated JPP was a top ten pick, i believe him. The only thing you smell is the BS you are trying to stir up The only thing I've been saying about any of those 1st round picks like Whitner is that they became starters on day one. Levy didn't need to acquire a top pass rusher as he already had Aaron Schobel who had 14 sacks in 2006, he wasn't desperate for a pass rusher like the Bills have been for 3 years now. So in conclusion if you think Nix is better... well, you are delusional. Like I stated eariler, even Brandon & Jauron did better. One solid starter out of two drafts says it all, and that sole starter was the #3 overall... that is pathetic!! Well, with hindsight, of course we should have picked a whole different lot of players every draft. It seems from your posts that you did not follow that draft closely AT ALL. JPP was a wild card. No one argued against his athleticism. But he was looked at as a one year wonder from a school not known for churning out all-pro NFL linemen. If he was such a lock for a top 10 pick, as you claim, why didn't he get selected in the top 10 by actual NFL GM's?? Its extremely easy to look back, nearly 3 years after the fact and say "We should have picked JPP". But at the time of that draft, he was viewed as a risky pick. Hence, why he dropped to the Giants. Anthony Davis was a head case. There were major questions about his work ethic coming out of Rutgers. He also wasn't viewed as a sure fire LT; And surprise surprise! He still isn't playing LT nearly 3 years down the road. It's so easy to look back at a draft like that and rip the Bills (Because you have some type of vendetta against this current regime I think) for picks they didn't make. The draft isn't as cut and dry when it happens as it is now, 3 years down the road. Donte Whitner was the worst pick this team has made in the last 15 years without a doubt. I can't believe anyone would attempt to defend that. Haloti Ngata was the easy pick and they blew it. Rex Ryan called Ngata a "Once in a decade" type player. He is a future hall of famer. Insead, the football mastermind that Marv levy is, decided to pick an undersized safety. Whitner was terrible. He couldn't cover, never made big plays, and was out performed by an undrafted WR converted to safety! I still get sick to my stomach thinking about the Whitner pick. It was such an obvious, no brainer pick yet Levy and Jauron still !@#$ed it up I almost missed the part of your post where you said "Levy and Jauron were unquestionably better" Buahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahah. Are !@#$ing for real man??!? Donte Whitner over Nagata @ 8, Aaron Maybin, Leodis McKelvin, John McCargo. This list goes on and on. This franchise STILL hasn't recovered from the damage done by those two clowns. Anyone with half a brain knew going into Nix's tenure that this was a full rebuild which would take at least 3 years. Jauron and Levy infected this team with their meekness and loser attitude. Face the facts man, when this team was healthy, in YEAR 2 of Nix's rebuild, they beat the AFC's Superbowl(probably Superbowl Champion) team and was one of the hottest teams in the NFL. It wasn't until injuries decimated this roster that things fell apart. Edited January 23, 2012 by ShhitGoose
smapdi Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) So in conclusion if you think Nix is better... well, you are delusional. Like I stated eariler, even Brandon & Jauron did better. One solid starter out of two drafts says it all, and that sole starter was the #3 overall... that is pathetic!! What are you smoking man? Pass some of it over here. 1 solid starter??! - Marcell Dareus; will be an all-pro linemen for years to come. Foundation of defense - Aaron Willams; Big, Physical CB who will be the #1 CB next season. If it wasn't for injuries, would have started this year more. Was called "best CB against run to come out of college in past 5 years" - Kelvin Sheppard; Very good ILB from the SEC who was starting 2nd half of season. Will be a mainstay in the front 7 for the next 5-7 years. - DaNoris Searcy; SS who looked good in action this season. Probably will give Wilson a run for his money at SS next year but will see tons of time in their Nickel and dime sets either way - CJ Spiller; When actually given touches, was the best offensive player on the team. If not abandoned for no reason by Gailey, would have put up even bigger numbers in 2nd half. Will be the cornerstone of the offense for the next decade. He WILL be the starter next season. Will be too good not to be on the field - Alex Carrington; Big, physcial DE that has started plenty of times. Able to hold his own against the run out of the 34 DE spot. All of those players will be starting next season. Most of them will be much better then "solid". Dareus and Spiller are the foundations of this team now. They both Possess the skill that few in the NFL do whether you like it or not. Edited January 23, 2012 by ShhitGoose
thewildrabbit Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) What are you smoking man? Pass some of it over here. 1 solid starter??! - Marcell Dareus; will be an all-pro linemen for years to come. Foundation of defense - Aaron Willams; Big, Physical CB who will be the #1 CB next season. If it wasn't for injuries, would have started this year more. Was called "best CB against run to come out of college in past 5 years" - Kelvin Sheppard; Very good ILB from the SEC who was starting 2nd half of season. Will be a mainstay in the front 7 for the next 5-7 years. - DaNoris Searcy; SS who looked good in action this season. Probably will give Wilson a run for his money at SS next year but will see tons of time in their Nickel and dime sets either way - CJ Spiller; When actually given touches, was the best offensive player on the team. If not abandoned for no reason by Gailey, would have put up even bigger numbers in 2nd half. Will be the cornerstone of the offense for the next decade. He WILL be the starter next season. Will be too good not to be on the field - Alex Carrington; Big, physcial DE that has started plenty of times. Able to hold his own against the run out of the 34 DE spot. All of those players will be starting next season. Most of them will be much better then "solid". Dareus and Spiller are the foundations of this team now. They both Possess the skill that few in the NFL do whether you like it or not. Are you just not able to read and comprehend what i said, do you not understand the main argument here? Usually when a bad team ( a disaster ) gets a new GM and head coach they gut almost the entire roster and start over. This regime didn't even come close to doing that. In fact not one drafted player became a starter from the 2010 draft FROM DAY ONE, do you not understand this concept? Donte Whitner, as much as Bills fans hate the guy he became an instant starter and remained a starter until he chose to leave Buffalo. (probably because he knew the defensive coaching sucked in Buffalo) Did any of the2010 free agents become starters besides Cornell Green who was completely useless. I still don't know why it took the coaches / GM 5 games to understand how bad he was. Try and comprehend this, it wasn't the players who were bad in 2010. It was all the assistant coaches with little or no NFL experience that were bad. The DC Edwards was just replaced because he sucked for the past two years. Look back to the 2010 season opener, CJ Spiller was named the starting RB because both Lynch and Jackson were slightly injured. That starting position lasted exactly 5 plays until HC Chan Gailey saw that Spiller couldn't block for protections, he couldn't find a hole, he couldn't run a route and was promptly benched. Fred Jackson then entered the game and took over the RB position with a cast on his hand. How does the HC name a player a starter when he was completely clueless about the fact that Spiller didn't know his job? Miscues like this happened all of 2010 with different players, RT Cornell Green was another example. Currently the main core of this current team is still being manned by players from the Jauron / levy era, and that's the team that beat the NE Patriots. After all the injuries to the Jauron / Levy starters the team fell on its face. The biggest injuries that hurt the team the most WR Roscoe Parrish- C Eric Wood- LT Dem Bell- RB Fred Jackson -NT Kyle Williams, ALL STARTERS FROM THE JAURON / LEVY era. Edited January 23, 2012 by Fear the Beard
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 How does anywhere in the draft mean that you can't pick one high in the draft? If I recall--and it's been a few years since I read the book-- Bellichick said he didn't like to waste high picks on olinemen, you could get them late in the draft and just coach them up. The point was clearly that olinemen are a dime a dozen and all they need is good coaching. Like I said, maybe he changed his views on this, in light of Solder and Light. But I came away from that book as thinking Bellichick would never waste a first round pick on an olineman.
JohnC Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 If I recall--and it's been a few years since I read the book-- Bellichick said he didn't like to waste high picks on olinemen, you could get them late in the draft and just coach them up. The point was clearly that olinemen are a dime a dozen and all they need is good coaching. Like I said, maybe he changed his views on this, in light of Solder and Light. But I came away from that book as thinking Bellichick would never waste a first round pick on an olineman. Mankins was a first round pick. Solder was a first round pick. Light was a second round pick. Vollmer was a second round pick. He invested a number of high draft picks to protect his most precious commodity: Tom Brady.
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