Offensive Tackles

[Astrobot]

ex-scout on the top two tackles.

 

If the best player is Rieff you pull the trigger at ten. Everyone keeps yapping about pass rushers but no mentions the elephant in the room, most of the class ****. No Von Miller, no Aldon Smith, not even a JJ Watt. None of the pass rushers are close to any of these guys. Why reach for a guy just for the sake of taking one. That's how you end up with the McKelvins and Maybins of the world.

 

Most of you won't like what the computer picked for the Bills, based on our needs and who was the BPA, in the DraftTek mock #9. http://www.drafttek.com/CMDRound1.asp

 

Based on the majority of the comments here, I am going to drop OT one level for mock #10. But you may still want to read what I said about Reiff if you have an open mind 95 days away from the draft.

[Bill from NYC]

The trap that many people fall into is that they make the assumption that just because you don't address a critical need with your first pick you can't be able to address the particular need with a second or third round pick. Another avenue to fill a void is through free agency. Not every free agent acquistion has to be a big money pickup. A quality player can be found to fill a void for a reasonable price if the organization doing the evaluation is smart.

 

As I stated in the other post, pass rushers, qb, and LT are the hardest positions to fill. This is almost beyond dispute. I am going to label Fitz as a "good" quarterback. We have no pass rush at all and big questions at LT. The chances of getting a high quality free agent pass rusher or LT are virtually non-existant. The Bills traded an all pro LT. Other teams simply do not. In a worst case scenario teams will franchise these guys, and do so at a discount rate (all OL grouped together). In other words, it ain't happening.

 

Now, look at the Bills. The only credible LB on the team is Barnett (imo), and he isn't young. This must stop. I am all about "bpa" when a fondation is in place. I'm against buying a fancy new sail for a boat with a leak.

[T master]

Why are you being so absolute? If you can draft an anchor LT with your high first round pick then why would that be such a bad course to take? The Bills are not going to address all their critical needs with this one draft, but filling a critical LT position wouldn't be a wasted pick for the most valuable position on the OL.

 

I can under stand the Question about being so absolute . But when you have a decent not great situation at LT & also the good possibility of bringing back Bell for more of a depth player due to his injury history along with the 4th round good LT prospect in Hairiston why go to the draft for another LT when there are other immediate need areas that you can fill ??

 

Now if we don't resign Bell b/c of his injuries then ya we may have to go the route of drafting another LT but as it looks for now I'd wait to find out Bells fate before going to the draft

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Now if we don't resign Bell b/c of his injuries then ya we may have to go the route of drafting another LT but as it looks for now I'd wait to find out Bells fate before going to the draft

Anyways, free agency precedes the draft so the Bell situation will be resolved before the draft.

[KD in CA]

1327247383[/url]' post='2368173']

Don't get imprisoned with the idea that you have to address a need at the expense of a better talent, reagardless (mostly) of a position. If you have a higher ranked OT than a questionable prospect at DE/OLB then it would be foolish to fall into the "Maybin mentality" trap: the necesessity to address a critical weakness at the expense of better talent at other positions.

 

Isn't that basically what I said? It seems to me the OT talent available at #10 will likely be better than the available front 7 talent so that's why it would make sense to address that need (although I'd be fine with Upshaw since LB quality needs an upgrade across the board). Blackmon will be on his 3d interview for his new team before the Bills are on the clock so pointless to discuss him.

What doesn't make sense is to completely ignore needs and fall into the 'BPA' trap, like the Bills did with Spiller, netting them a backup RB while passing on 3 stellar linemen who could have made a big difference on the lines.

[RealityCheck]

Without a pass rush the best O-line in football will get you squat.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

What doesn't make sense is to completely ignore needs and fall into the 'BPA' trap, like the Bills did with Spiller, netting them a backup RB while passing on 3 stellar linemen who could have made a big difference on the lines.

What 3 stellar linemen are you referring to, KD?

[KD in CA]

1327252033[/url]' post='2368258']

What 3 stellar linemen are you referring to, KD?

 

Pierre-Paul (no one on the roster I wouldn't trade for him), Pouncey (Levitre-Pouncey-Wood would have been a real nice interior), and Davis (not an All-Pro but looks pretty solid on a very good running team). All taken within ten picks of Spiller.

Sure Spiller looked nice while the Bills played out the string, but those three guys have all been quality starters from day 1.

 

[RealityCheck]

Pierre-Paul (no one on the roster I wouldn't trade for him), Pouncey (Levitre-Pouncey-Wood would have been a real nice interior), and Davis (not an All-Pro but looks pretty solid on a very good running team). All taken within ten picks of Spiller.

Sure Spiller looked nice while the Bills played out the string, but those three guys have all been quality starters from day 1.

You would have picked another 1st round center? That's funny.

[KD in CA]

1327253460[/url]' post='2368273']

You would have picked another 1st round center? That's funny.

 

Funnier than picking a 3d RB? Wood can play G too.

[robertpaul49]

So the Giants were brilliant because they selected JPP, but are they idiots because they selected Marvin Austin and Prince this year? Both of those guys have been injured. Heck, the Giants left tackle Beatty is always injured. They have a guard playing left tackle.

 

I'm happy with Nix as far as the draft. Maybe, Troupe will have injury problems, but that happens. The first year, they selected a lot of developmental players, kind of like JPP. After Green, they did a good job finding anyway to improve the offensive line. Sure there is more work to be done, but there is definite improvement.

 

I remember when everybody wanted the Bills to play a 3-4 because the Steelers and Patriots defenses were destroying teams. You can't fault Nix for drafting Maybin because he didn't, but I can fault him for letting him go for financial reasons instead of finding him a role as a role player. I'm also worried because last year Nix said that they wanted Whitner back, but the 49ers signed him to a very reasonable contract. Outside of not living up to unrealistic expectations, Whitner is a good player, and for the right price why not? I mean should Green Bay cut or not sign Hawk because Clay Mathews plays better? This makes me really nervous about Steve Johnson, one of only two true stars on offense. It would be like Carolina letting Steve Smith go, just bad.

 

I am happy that they seem to be going for the best player available instead of picking by need. I would rather have Spiller than Maybin, Whitner, JP Losman, Eric Flowers, McCargo, etc. The team should make sure the player is not a bust than worry about position. Anyway, Lynch was on his way out of town. The mistake was drafting him to begin with. Levy said they wanted character, then drafted Lynch, sheesh.

 

Merriman is stop-gap, so oh well. If the best player is a left tackle, then I would be fine, but to take Bulaga just because they need a tackle is the typical Buffalo Bills mistake, and I can't believe that there are fans on this board rooting for it. Ralph hasn't been cheap, his GMs have stunk since Butler left.

 

Lastly, I think the Bills might actually be a player in free agency now that the teams identity is coming together.

[JohnC]

As I stated in the other post, pass rushers, qb, and LT are the hardest positions to fill. This is almost beyond dispute. I am going to label Fitz as a "good" quarterback. We have no pass rush at all and big questions at LT. The chances of getting a high quality free agent pass rusher or LT are virtually non-existant. The Bills traded an all pro LT. Other teams simply do not. In a worst case scenario teams will franchise these guys, and do so at a discount rate (all OL grouped together). In other words, it ain't happening.

 

Now, look at the Bills. The only credible LB on the team is Barnett (imo), and he isn't young. This must stop. I am all about "bpa" when a fondation is in place. I'm against buying a fancy new sail for a boat with a leak.

 

Do you think I agreed with the Peters trade? Of course not. Instead of having an established cornerstone LT for the next decade this lame organization traded him and then had another hole to go back and fill. That was a Wilson/Littmana/Oberdorf business model transaction. Paying your best lineman the going rate was a cause of action to get rid of him.

 

If you think it is smart to hypothetically bypass a player such as Kalil or Reiff over a player at a critical need positon who you ranked much lower then we have a fundamental disagreement in approach. As I have stated in other posts there is more than one pick in a draft. Needs don't have to be addressed with only your first pick.

 

Although many fans think otherwise the Bills are not going to be a playoff team next year. They simply don't match up in talent with the more serious playoff teams. Against our own divisional opponents the Bills went 1-5. Drafting the best players is the best approach to closing the talent gap. You are portraying my (in general) BPA methodology as a system that doesn't address critical needs. That isn't the case. The Ravens and the Packers have demonstrated that in the long run getting the best players is the smartest way to go. Using that strategy was why Rodgers is on the Packer roster.

 

The clueless owner of the Bills set this franchise back by a decade when he hired Levy who worked two very damaging years and then followed up with Brandon for another lost year. Keeping Modrak as your primary college scout for a decade and then defending his performance was beyond being inexplicable. Those lost years resulted in bringing in Nix/Whaley who then had to go back and clean up the mess by the prior regime.

 

While you are taking a more stop gap approach I prefer taking an approach that in general upgrades the roster as a whole and eventually adds up to a fuller and more robust roster. After building up a more talented roster then you have to contend with the Wilson/Littman/Oberdorf model that let's your developed players move on and function at a high level somewhere else.

Edited January 22, 2012 by JohnC

[JohnC]

Isn't that basically what I said? It seems to me the OT talent available at #10 will likely be better than the available front 7 talent so that's why it would make sense to address that need (although I'd be fine with Upshaw since LB quality needs an upgrade across the board). Blackmon will be on his 3d interview for his new team before the Bills are on the clock so pointless to discuss him.

What doesn't make sense is to completely ignore needs and fall into the 'BPA' trap, like the Bills did with Spiller, netting them a backup RB while passing on 3 stellar linemen who could have made a big difference on the lines.

 

Who are the defensive players who you believed before the draft were going to be defensive stalwarts?

 

The book on Spiller is not finished. If he develops into a big play player that last season he gave a glimpse of are you then going to still put him in the category of a mistake selection? Over the last third of the season when he got extended playing time he was by far our best offensive player. The questionable picks in that year's draft class were Troup and Carrington, not Spiller. I felt that Troup was a mistake pick who was drafted much sooner than most other organizations had him ranked.

[thewildrabbit]

Do you think I agreed with the Peters trade? Of course not. Instead of having an established cornerstone LT for the next decade this lame organization traded him and then had another hole to go back and fill. That was a Wilson/Littmana/Oberdorf business model transaction. Paying your best lineman the going rate was a cause of action to get rid of him.

 

If you think it is smart to hypothetically bypass a player such as Kalil or Reiff over a player at a critical need positon who you ranked much lower then we have a fundamental disagreement in approach. As I have stated in other posts there is more than one pick in a draft. Needs don't have to be addressed with only your first pick.

 

Although many fans think otherwise the Bills are not going to be a playoff team next year. They simply don't match up in talent with the more serious playoff teams. Against our own divisional opponents the Bills went 1-5. Drafting the best players is the best approach to closing the talent gap. You are portraying my (in general) BPA methodology as a system that doesn't address critical needs. That isn't the case. The Ravens and the Packers have demonstrated that in the long run getting the best players is the smartest way to go. Using that strategy was why Rodgers is on the Packer roster.

 

The clueless owner of the Bills set this franchise back by a decade when he hired Levy who worked two very damaging years and then followed up with Brandon for another lost year. Keeping Modrak as your primary college scout for a decade and then defending his performance was beyond being inexplicable. Those lost years resulted in bringing in Nix/Whaley who then had to go back and clean up the mess by the prior regime.

While you are taking a more stop gap approach I prefer taking an approach that in general upgrades the roster as a whole and eventually adds up to a fuller and more robust roster. After building up a more talented roster then you have to contend with the Wilson/Littman/Oberdorf model that let's your developed players move on and function at a high level somewhere else.

Still blaming this teams recent failure on a man who worked on this team in 2006-2007 and yet this same man brought in Fred Jackson- Kyle Williams- Donte Whitner- Marshawn Lynch - Paul Posluszny. which is more star players in his two years then Buddy Nix has in his two years so far. Lynch was an immediate starter and an impact player, so was Whitner, Poz and Williams.

 

Levy also brought in Derrick Dockery, Langston Walker to beef up that O line, if he had a failing it was that he didn't bring in a top center which is a critical key part of building a top O line. Melvin Fowler started all 16 games both years and was the weak link. Levy also hired Steve Fairchild (ex Ram OC)to build a decent aerial attack. What Marv Levy's biggest failure was, is the fact he hired Dick Jauron in the first place over Mike Sherman.

 

If anything Marv Levy's two year stint could be defined by his 2 QB's, JP Losman & Trent Edwards, the latter being a rookie. Instead of hiring an offensive mentor for his two young QB's, he hired an offensive moron who ruined them both. Otherwise the team could have finished better then 7-9. Marv levy's teams finished with back to back 7-9 records which is better then Buddy Nix's records of 4-12, 6-10. So while you are very critical of what Marv did in his two years,what he accomplished in his two years far exceeds what Buddy Nix has done.

 

 

Anyway, While I agree that the owner of this team has been the biggest problem in regards to wins over the last decade. But then, that hasn't been this owners ultimate goal all along. His goal has been to sell tickets, fill season seats and make a profit. Something his lackeys have done a suburb job at even in a bad recession. To us fans, winning is everything. To this owner, profitably is everything.

 

 

What I think most fans just don't get is with a few proper moves (free agency, the draft and assistant coaches hired) this team could have been a much better team the last two years instead of a very one dimensional passing offense and a porous defense.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Fear the Beard

[smapdi]

More total homer BS as the Bills were actually deep in talent at the RB position and already had 2 play makers at RB. If anything they needed a TE and WR at the play makers spot in 2010. Stevie Johnson was an unknown at the time and Lee Evans needed help on the other side since they let TO walk.

 

LOL I don't even know where to start with this post. Deep in talent?! Lynch was already out the door. He was one bone headed move from being suspended the entire year. The writing was clearly on the wall that Lynch was history. He was def a bad pick to begin with; I would have traded up for Patrick Willis who is now the mainstay of the 49ers defense. FJax was still a question mark entering that season. He was not the player that he was the first half of this season; not even close to that level

 

Just look at how bad our offense was under Jauron. That is all the proof I need to justify the need for a dynamic, offensive talent to add to this team. The NFL is about scoring points and the Bills were sorely lacking any type of offensive playmaker. Year after year of offenses in the bottom 5 of the NFL.

 

Total homer BS in justifying the Spiller pick over a OT, nothing magical needed about Anthony Davis as he has started at RT for the 49ers since being drafted in 2010 with the 11th pick and has locked down that position since day one. Not only that he has stated all 16 games in both 2010 & 2011

 

A lot of revisionist history going on in this post. Anthony Davis was a question mark as well. I can see by your post that you did not follow that draft very closely. Bulaga was categorized as "soft" by many sources and not fit to be a LT. I dont know about you, but I will pass on taking a RT in the top 10. Face the facts: Neither of those players are LT to this day

 

Those last 4 names are the result of an incompetent scouting dept under Jauron and Tom Modrak, things were supposed to change under Buddy Nix

 

I guess Buddy Nix is just damned if he does and damned if he doesn't with you. Nix broke the flow of stupidity of reaching for needs with our 1st round picks with taking Spiller and Dareus.

 

More total homer BS as the Bills were actually deep in talent at the RB position and already had 2 play makers at RB

 

I don't understand how you can possibly say this. The Bills were never deep in talent at any position on offense during the Jaruon tenure. Just look at where their offense ranked:

 

2006: 30th in total offense

2007: 30th

2008: 25th

2009: 30th

 

WOW! That looks like an offense just incredibly deep in talent and offensive playmakers to me... /sarcasm

 

You can knock Spiller all you want and say he hasn't proven anything but that is a lie. He was their best offensive player when he actually got touches. There is nothing Spiller could do with less then 3 carries a game starting the season.

 

He would have had more 100 yard games if Gailey didn't abandon him for no apparent reason. He tore the MIA defense apart; the same MIA defense that FJax struggled mightily against.

Edited January 23, 2012 by ShhitGoose

[thewildrabbit]

You would have picked another 1st round center? That's funny.

Eric Wood was drafted to play RG for the Buffalo Bills, its what he did his first two years.

 

He switched to center this season and made that line so much better, which kinda of solidifies the argument for drafting Pouncey

 

With Pouncey at center and Wood and Levitre at guards the line would actually allow the QB to "step up" in the pocket to complete passes. More then that, he would actually have a pocket!

[JohnC]

Still blaming this teams recent failure on a man who worked on this team in 2006-2007 and yet this same man brought in Fred Jackson- Kyle Williams- Donte Whitner- Marshawn Lynch - Paul Posluszny. which is more star players in his two years then Buddy Nix has in his two years so far. Lynch was an immediate starter and an impact player, so was Whitner, Poz and Williams.

 

Levy also brought in Derrick Dockery, Langston Walker to beef up that O line, if he had a failing it was that he didn't bring in a top center which is a critical key part of building a top O line. Melvin Fowler started all 16 games both years and was the weak link. Levy also hired Steve Fairchild (ex Ram OC)to build a decent aerial attack. What Marv Levy's biggest failure was, is the fact he hired Dick Jauron in the first place over Mike Sherman.

 

If anything Marv Levy's two year stint could be defined by his 2 QB's, JP Losman & Trent Edwards, the latter being a rookie. Instead of hiring an offensive mentor for his two young QB's, he hired an offensive moron who ruined them both. Otherwise the team could have finished better then 7-9. Marv levy's teams finished with back to back 7-9 records which is better then Buddy Nix's records of 4-12, 6-10. So while you are very critical of what Marv did in his two years,what he accomplished in his two years far exceeds what Buddy Nix has done.

 

 

Anyway, While I agree that the owner of this team has been the biggest problem in regards to wins over the last decade. But then, that hasn't been this owners ultimate goal all along. His goal has been to sell tickets, fill season seats and make a profit. Something his lackeys have done a suburb job at even in a bad recession. To us fans, winning is everything. To this owner, profitably is everything.

 

 

What I think most fans just don't get is with a few proper moves (free agency, the draft and assistant coaches hired) this team could have been a much better team the last two years instead of a very one dimensional passing offense and a porous defense.

 

The body of work from Levy was a disaster. You can name a list of players that were good or capable but in general he was a dismal failure. He was most responsible for hiring Jauron. Are you suggesting that was a good hire? It was Jauron along with Levy who ushered in the light and quick roster mentality that Nix is in the process of changing to a bigger and stronger roster.

 

It was during Levy's tenure that Whitner was drafted ahead of Ngata. It was under Levy that the Bills traded up to get Paul P when there were better LBs on the board. McCargo was a trade up player. How did that work out?

 

Are you trying to say that the acquisitions of Dockery and Walker at premium salaries was a smart move? I don't think it was.

 

Buddy Nix's record over the past couple of years is by no means stellar. What he is doing is rebuilding the roster assembled under Levy/Jauron/Modrak/Brandon. In my view the Levy era was a disaster. He is a good man who was not equipped for the job. Nix is still working to undo the damage.

Edited January 23, 2012 by JohnC

[RealityCheck]

Funnier than picking a 3d RB? Wood can play G too.

You are willing to draft a RB in the 1st too? What is wrong with you?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Jermon Bushrod 4th round pick

Duane Brown First round pick

Matt Light second round pick

Bryant McKinnie first rounder

 

Looks like you need to take a tackle early.

 

It's funny--reading "Education of a Coach," which is about Bellichick, he says in there pretty clearly that he thinks you can get an o-lineman anywhere in the draft and just coach them up. Of course, several years later, they take Light and Solder with fairly high picks; maybe he's since changed his mind.

[thewildrabbit]

LOL I don't even know where to start with this post. Deep in talent?! Lynch was already out the door. He was one bone headed move from being suspended the entire year. The writing was clearly on the wall that Lynch was history. He was def a bad pick to begin with; I would have traded up for Patrick Willis who is now the mainstay of the 49ers defense. FJax was still a question mark entering that season. He was not the player that he was the first half of this season; not even close to that level

 

Just look at how bad our offense was under Jauron. That is all the proof I need to justify the need for a dynamic, offensive talent to add to this team. The NFL is about scoring points and the Bills were sorely lacking any type of offensive playmaker. Year after year of offenses in the bottom 5 of the NFL.

 

A lot of revisionist history going on in this post. Anthony Davis was a question mark as well. I can see by your post that you did not follow that draft very closely. Bulaga was categorized as "soft" by many sources and not fit to be a LT. I dont know about you, but I will pass on taking a RT in the top 10. Face the facts: Neither of those players are LT to this day

 

I guess Buddy Nix is just damned if he does and damned if he doesn't with you. Nix broke the flow of stupidity of reaching for needs with our 1st round picks with taking Spiller and Dareus.

 

I don't understand how you can possibly say this. The Bills were never deep in talent at any position on offense during the Jaruon tenure. Just look at where their offense ranked:

 

2006: 30th in total offense

2007: 30th

2008: 25th

2009: 30th

 

WOW! That looks like an offense just incredibly deep in talent and offensive playmakers to me... /sarcasm

 

You can knock Spiller all you want and say he hasn't proven anything but that is a lie. He was their best offensive player when he actually got touches. There is nothing Spiller could do with less then 3 carries a game starting the season.

 

He would have had more 100 yard games if Gailey didn't abandon him for no apparent reason. He tore the MIA defense apart; the same MIA defense that FJax struggled mightily against.

The mere fact that you fail to acknowledge the that the Bills needed a playmaker at WR - TE over another RB shows me you are hell bent on defending the current regime. First off, Spiller wasn't the BPA. He was a player Chan Gailey had his eye on long before the draft even took place.

 

""Chan Gailey wants to draft a water bug

 

Posted by NBC Sports on March 23, 2010, 2:10 PM EST The Bills have one of the better receiving backs in football with Fred Jackson. They have one of the most powerful and talented backups in Marshawn Lynch.

But they don't have any other running backs on the roster, and that's why Chan Gailey wants to draft one.

 

"The guys that are coming out now, there's a bunch of those 5-9,

185-pound or 195-pound, quick-as-a-cat water bugs that are running

backs-slash-receivers that might give you a little bit of a punch on the

field, maybe make a big play," Gailey told reporters Tuesday morning.

 

Gailey used the spread offense in Kansas City and knows how to use versatile, explosive players. Lynch's future with the team after 2010 remains uncertain, so drafting some depth at the position is on Gailey's to-do list.""

 

http://profootballta...ft-a-water-bug/

 

http://espn.go.com/b...raft-a-scatback

 

Notice the date on the above article.

 

What gets me with this argument is that Gailey used Spiller more as a receiver then he did at RB before FJ's injury, and I'll bet if he had it do over again he drafts a WR, either.Demaryius Thomas or Dez Bryant.

 

My take is, Gailey seems to think Spiller is to frail to be given a full time RB workload, and perhaps that's why he stopped running him in several games this past year