syrcuse315 Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Throughout all the talk of who to get in the first round of the draft I've always been for going after and OLB/DE for a pass rush. While I still do want that position badly watching how much of a difference these offensive tackles are making in these playoff games is making me lean more and more toward getting Reiff or Martin with the first pick. I've always valued OT highly but when in the Saints game the LT shut down Aldon Smith most plays during their one on one's really shows just how much of a difference it can make for a quarterback. These LT for these teams are shutting down some of the best pass rushers in the game like smith and suggs for a majority of the game. Just out of curiosity, is watching these games making anyone lean more or less toward an OT with the 10th pick in the draft?
mob16151 Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Jermon Bushrod 4th round pick Duane Brown First round pick Matt Light second round pick Bryant McKinnie first rounder Looks like you need to take a tackle early.
Mr. WEO Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Throughout all the talk of who to get in the first round of the draft I've always been for going after and OLB/DE for a pass rush. While I still do want that position badly watching how much of a difference these offensive tackles are making in these playoff games is making me lean more and more toward getting Reiff or Martin with the first pick. I've always valued OT highly but when in the Saints game the LT shut down Aldon Smith most plays during their one on one's really shows just how much of a difference it can make for a quarterback. These LT for these teams are shutting down some of the best pass rushers in the game like smith and suggs for a majority of the game. Just out of curiosity, is watching these games making anyone lean more or less toward an OT with the 10th pick in the draft? Absolutely not.
808 Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 if the bills truly do go after a pass rusher in free agency then getting a rieff would be solid. i like martin too. hes nasty on the run blocking. not to bring up bad memories and all but imagine if mike williams didnt become a huge bust and lived up to the hype. ughh man. so sad
sllib olaffub Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 There's more than one way to aquire talent. If our Front Office really wanted to put together a good team, they'd identify the weak areas, and they'd utilize Free Agency, Draft, UDFA, and TRADES. They'd get the guys to make it work. Instead, we fans are left talking about which NEED POSITION should we LET WAIT while we draft a HOPEFUL Solution to one of the needs. We don't have to settle for that - they can find a way to get both pressure on a QB and protection on ours. By the way - I actually like our rookie this year, Hairston. I don't know if he can do it - but our staff should be able to make that assessment.
syrcuse315 Posted January 15, 2012 Author Posted January 15, 2012 There's more than one way to aquire talent. If our Front Office really wanted to put together a good team, they'd identify the weak areas, and they'd utilize Free Agency, Draft, UDFA, and TRADES. They'd get the guys to make it work. Instead, we fans are left talking about which NEED POSITION should we LET WAIT while we draft a HOPEFUL Solution to one of the needs. We don't have to settle for that - they can find a way to get both pressure on a QB and protection on ours. By the way - I actually like our rookie this year, Hairston. I don't know if he can do it - but our staff should be able to make that assessment. Given our current line I'd say we have utilized un-drafted free agents to add to the line and off of waivers. I'll be honest I haven't looked at what free agent tackles there are this year so I wouldn't know if there is one worth going after. Teams don't often do trades in the NFL like in other sports but that is always a possibility. I have to agree with you on Hariston I like him a lot and I think he has some talent. The beauty of drafting an OT (not saying thats the way to go) is that you can get a multi year contract for much less money. I'd have to agree with Nix completely when he said that moving a tackle to a guard position is easier than the other way around. Adding a tackle that hopefully can stay healthy adds depth to not just the one position but allows him to utilized as a guard if need be with injuries and w/e else
JohnC Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Absolutely not. Why are you being so absolute? If you can draft an anchor LT with your high first round pick then why would that be such a bad course to take? The Bills are not going to address all their critical needs with this one draft, but filling a critical LT position wouldn't be a wasted pick for the most valuable position on the OL.
thewildrabbit Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) No worries, the Bills won't waste an early pick on any OT's as there are far to many skill players that entice them Looking at that NY Giants pass rush and how they just killed the Packers.... can anyone figure out why this team hasn't bothered to even try and draft a pass rusher with an early pick the last two years? Edited January 16, 2012 by Fear the Beard
Bill from NYC Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Why are you being so absolute? If you can draft an anchor LT with your high first round pick then why would that be such a bad course to take? The Bills are not going to address all their critical needs with this one draft, but filling a critical LT position wouldn't be a wasted pick for the most valuable position on the OL. This is true. But, the pass rush is very disturbing. The Bills probably field the worst set of linebackers in the NFL, and our team leader in sacks was a rookie who spent time at the nose. This is unacceptable, even mind boggling if you aren't a Bills fan. It is up to the Bills front office to find us pass rushers, and a LT (if they are loath to giving Bell the big bucks due to his health). They should have scouts all over the place looking at kids who can step in and help us now. Maybe they are doing this; who knows? But, in my perhaps ridiculous opinion, Mr. Wilson has control of the first round, and we will take a ticket selling wide receiver, who will be referred to as the "best player available." He won't take a QB in the first after paying Fitz, and he's probably still reeling from the Mike Williams fiasco. I want to be wrong; time will tell.
JohnC Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 This is true. But, the pass rush is very disturbing. The Bills probably field the worst set of linebackers in the NFL, and our team leader in sacks was a rookie who spent time at the nose. This is unacceptable, even mind boggling if you aren't a Bills fan. It is up to the Bills front office to find us pass rushers, and a LT (if they are loath to giving Bell the big bucks due to his health). They should have scouts all over the place looking at kids who can step in and help us now. Maybe they are doing this; who knows? But, in my perhaps ridiculous opinion, Mr. Wilson has control of the first round, and we will take a ticket selling wide receiver, who will be referred to as the "best player available." He won't take a QB in the first after paying Fitz, and he's probably still reeling from the Mike Williams fiasco. I want to be wrong; time will tell. The central problem that always arises with this hollow organization is that it operates in a self-defeating manner from a competitive standpoint. Using its first round selection for an anchor LT shouldn't mean that a quality LB can't be found in the free agency market? With the Bills it does because this tight fisted organization is reluctant to pay the price. If they do go out and procure a quality LB in the market then the finance boys, Littman and Oberdorf, will mandate a major roster cut to pay for the new acquisition. So you fill a hole by creating a hole. You may think I'm being greedy but I would love to keep Bell and still draft a highly rated OT. If the Bills maintain the Jackson/Spiller combo then why not exploit their assets with a highly rated OL that also has depth. Also, there was no doubt that a lack of depth on both sides of the ball played a major role in the team's precipitous decline in the second-half of the year. I'm not concerned with Ralph Wilson influencing the first pick for marketing reasons. At his age and frailties he is a dimininishing presence. (I'm not trying to be disrespectful. Merely stating an obvious fact.) His legacy and oppressive influence comes from his long-standing business model enforced by his finance boys. Let me propose a scenario for you? If the Bills were in a position to draft the Blackman (sic), the receiver from OK ST., would you pass on him to address some other need? I wouldn't. I would snatch him up because he would be the best player on the board and would also fill a critical need. There is nothing wrong taking the best player available and also addressing one of the numerous needs.
Mr. WEO Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Why are you being so absolute? If you can draft an anchor LT with your high first round pick then why would that be such a bad course to take? The Bills are not going to address all their critical needs with this one draft, but filling a critical LT position wouldn't be a wasted pick for the most valuable position on the OL. It may be the most valuable position on the O-line, but the overall value of the spot doesn't warrent a top 10 (or 11) pick. The impact the player will have is limited by the position. Mediocre to bad teams often look to LT in the first round as one way out of their poor performance--yet it rarely has any impact on the team's fortunes. Skins, Browns, Jags, Seahawks-Fins-Bears-Rams (all twice in the past several years) have taken LT in the first and it has been in vain. The Browns and Fins have Pro Bowlers at the position--so what? Their offenses still aren't good because their QBs suck, no matter who's protecting their "blind side". Philly has Peters, an all pro--yet Vick gets pounded every game and has yet to complete a season with that team. The top offensive teams have found LTs everywhere but the first round, with the exception of Detroit. GB (5th), Giants (2nd), Atl (6th), SD (udfa), NE (2nd), Saints (4th)... A couple of years ago I said that a very good or elite TE is far more valuable than a very good or elite LT. I think what we have seen this year makes this more obvious than ever.
BobChalmers Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 ...can anyone figure out why this team hasn't bothered to even try and draft a pass rusher with an early pick the last two years? My - how convenient of you to choose "the last two years" and even at that you are wrong. As we all would like to forget - 3 years ago they took Maybin as their 1st rounder. Two years ago they took Carrington in the 3rd. (They needed to do a better job against the run back then too, btw) Oh - and this just in - they drafted this season's leading sack-man in the first round this year. Yeah - he's more of a 4-3 DT type, but that still helps the pass rush. Pretty sure they'd have gone with Von Miller if he was there and Dareus wasn't. Other than that, you made a lot of sense.
apuszczalowski Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Weren't the Bills o-line near the top of the category in giving up the least amount of sacks this season? Wasn't Fred Jackson the leagues leading rusher for a big chunk of the season running behind this o-line?
BobChalmers Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) But, in my perhaps ridiculous opinion, Mr. Wilson has control of the first round, and we will take a ticket selling wide receiver, who will be referred to as the "best player available." He won't take a QB in the first after paying Fitz, and he's probably still reeling from the Mike Williams fiasco. I want to be wrong; time will tell. Yeah - I agree - this is ridiculous. Buddy Nix controls all the picks. Wilson knows winning is the best way to sell tickets, and everyone in the front office is on board with that. By your ridiculous reasoning, they would have taken Green last year instead of Dareus, right? Or a QB like Gabbert (they hadn't paid Fitz yet)? Why didn't they? They took a big solid DL of the sort who is going to anchor the team for years - EXACTLY like most of the people here have been begging them to take. But now less than a year later, you've convinced yourself that stupid Ralph Wilson is going to force Nix to take a WR?? (Which we all agree they need as well, btw.) Yes - ridiculous at least. Weren't the Bills o-line near the top of the category in giving up the least amount of sacks this season? Wasn't Fred Jackson the leagues leading rusher for a big chunk of the season running behind this o-line? Oh yes - and Demetrius Bell has been the subject of at least two different film sessions on NFL Network talking about what a great job he's been doing. None of that matters - "the Bills suck... Ralph Wilson is cheap and senile... our OL is the worst in the league..." It's genuinely tiresome, as well as flat-out stupid. This team is a strong pass rush away from the playoffs - period. A top WR added to Stevie would help. Health on the OL would help - particularly LT. Nix said point blank he intends to address all of that this off-season, and that he thinks filling those holes is all they need from the personnel side. He's right. Edited January 16, 2012 by BobChalmers
papazoid Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Throughout all the talk of who to get in the first round of the draft I've always been for going after and OLB/DE for a pass rush. While I still do want that position badly watching how much of a difference these offensive tackles are making in these playoff games is making me lean more and more toward getting Reiff or Martin with the first pick. I've always valued OT highly but when in the Saints game the LT shut down Aldon Smith most plays during their one on one's really shows just how much of a difference it can make for a quarterback. These LT for these teams are shutting down some of the best pass rushers in the game like smith and suggs for a majority of the game. Just out of curiosity, is watching these games making anyone lean more or less toward an OT with the 10th pick in the draft? i happen to think that the Best Available Player at #10 will be one of the Top 3 Left Tackles. A stud LT is every bit as important as a DE/OLB need.
JPS Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) It may be the most valuable position on the O-line, but the overall value of the spot doesn't warrent a top 10 (or 11) pick. The impact the player will have is limited by the position. Mediocre to bad teams often look to LT in the first round as one way out of their poor performance--yet it rarely has any impact on the team's fortunes. Skins, Browns, Jags, Seahawks-Fins-Bears-Rams (all twice in the past several years) have taken LT in the first and it has been in vain. The Browns and Fins have Pro Bowlers at the position--so what? Their offenses still aren't good because their QBs suck, no matter who's protecting their "blind side". Philly has Peters, an all pro--yet Vick gets pounded every game and has yet to complete a season with that team. The top offensive teams have found LTs everywhere but the first round, with the exception of Detroit. GB (5th), Giants (2nd), Atl (6th), SD (udfa), NE (2nd), Saints (4th)... A couple of years ago I said that a very good or elite TE is far more valuable than a very good or elite LT. I think what we have seen this year makes this more obvious than ever. Very well put. I never thought how many bad teams have great OTs. I still say pass rush...and then a DE. Our front 7 sucks. Period. Beginning and End of the story. Edited January 16, 2012 by JPS
Ball'n Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 The central problem that always arises with this hollow organization is that it operates in a self-defeating manner from a competitive standpoint. Using its first round selection for an anchor LT shouldn't mean that a quality LB can't be found in the free agency market? With the Bills it does because this tight fisted organization is reluctant to pay the price. If they do go out and procure a quality LB in the market then the finance boys, Littman and Oberdorf, will mandate a major roster cut to pay for the new acquisition. So you fill a hole by creating a hole. You may think I'm being greedy but I would love to keep Bell and still draft a highly rated OT. If the Bills maintain the Jackson/Spiller combo then why not exploit their assets with a highly rated OL that also has depth. Also, there was no doubt that a lack of depth on both sides of the ball played a major role in the team's precipitous decline in the second-half of the year. I'm not concerned with Ralph Wilson influencing the first pick for marketing reasons. At his age and frailties he is a dimininishing presence. (I'm not trying to be disrespectful. Merely stating an obvious fact.) His legacy and oppressive influence comes from his long-standing business model enforced by his finance boys. Let me propose a scenario for you? If the Bills were in a position to draft the Blackman (sic), the receiver from OK ST., would you pass on him to address some other need? I wouldn't. I would snatch him up because he would be the best player on the board and would also fill a critical need. There is nothing wrong taking the best player available and also addressing one of the numerous needs. I get the opinion Nix wants to keep Bell and get another Tackle as well, and I agree with it. However, I don't think that the Tackle has to be a First rounder, and ultimately getting a pass rush will be more vital to the team than a tackle. I'd like to see a pass rusher, tackle, or WR in the first, using BPA to determine the pick. I don't know the best prospects besides what is projected, but there will be a highly projected pass rusher, tackle, or WR who drops to us. On top of this, hopefully Nix lives up to his replies last Monday and we get some well needed keys in free agency as well.
artmalibu Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 The beauty of picking 10th is that the Bills have enough needs that they should be able to draft a player who can make a DIFFERENCE right away. Picking a tackle at 10 does not guarantee that we will see a difference in tackle play. We had 2 lts that did a pretty good job. We need your first round guy to be an upgrade week one. So, if they can get a reasonable deal done with Bell they should.
Nostradamus Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 The beauty of picking 10th is that the Bills have enough needs that they should be able to draft a player who can make a DIFFERENCE right away. Picking a tackle at 10 does not guarantee that we will see a difference in tackle play. We had 2 lts that did a pretty good job. We need your first round guy to be an upgrade week one. So, if they can get a reasonable deal done with Bell they should. I might be in the minority in this, but I think they are pretty much set at the tackle position. Even this year, when both Hairston and Bell were beset by injuries, the tackle spots held up fine. With a little better health, the tackle position could be a real strength, as I think Bell could be a top tier tackle when healthy. The best use of resources would be for the Bills to resign Bell, and either sign a mid-priced free agent or draft a 3 or 4th round tackle prospect. I think relinquishing Bell while drafting Rieff or Martin, at least for the short term, would only be a lateral move for the franchise, and that is the same reasoning why I would be deadset on letting SJ walk and then drafting Floyd or Jeffrey.
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