BuffaloBillsForever Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Over/under on how many times Evans makes it on the field? Yes, you read that correctly, not balls thrown to, not catches BUT how many times he lines up and makes it on the field in the Ravens offense on sunday. What's an appropriate number here. How about 10 over/under? I think it might be over since they might use some 4 wr sets against their secondary and might see him in some 3wr set packages. Edited January 20, 2012 by BuffaloBillsForever
nucci Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 If it is true that Littman and Oberdorf went to Nix and told him that a certain amount of payroll had to be cut and they listed the players who fell within the salary dump requirements then that in itself, regardless who the dropped player was, is disturbing. The Bills were very much under the cap prior to the probable salary deletions. If the story is true, which I believe it is, it is a testament to how this losing franchise is being run. A similar scenario played out with Hangartner. He wasn't even played in the preseason out of fear that he would get hurt resulting in a salary settlement. I'm not suggesting Hangartner is a key player. But he would have made a good reserve guard/center for the team. There are reasons why the Bills haven't been in the playoffs for a dozen years and counting. There are reasons why the historical record of the franchise is a losing record. The owner's business model is set up to make more money at the expense of being a serious franchise. John, I agree how poorly this franchise is run but my statement was purely based on football. Evans did nothing this year, will probably be released, and is close to the end of his career and the Bills got something for him. That's all.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Fair enough, but let me add a twist to your argument (which is a good one): assume, for the purposes of this discussion, that Gailey and Nix were not in favor of the trade, but it was imposed upon them by Overdorf and Littman (just assume it - let's not get into whether that happened). Would making that assumption change, in any way, your view of the trade? Not from the standpoint of whether it was a good trade or not. It wouldn't change my feelings that it was a good trade. Therefore if the trade was the brainchild of Nix, Gailey and the football guys, I commend them on it. However if Kelly's source's story is true, that would certainly be disappointing and confirm the fears that many fans have had about the Bills for many years. If the situation was reversed and we acquired Lee Evans for a 4th round pick and he had the same unproductive season, what would you say? Facts are Evans did nothing this year and most likely his career is over or close to it. This is a different issue but certainly a good point. In the eyes of many Bills fans, the Bills can do not right and can only do wrong. But a huge history of mediocrity will certainly cause a fanbase to feel that way… so I understand that perspective on the team, even though I don't share it.
JohnC Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 John, I agree how poorly this franchise is run but my statement was purely based on football. Evans did nothing this year, will probably be released, and is close to the end of his career and the Bills got something for him. That's all. From a football standpoint the Evans trade was a good deal for the Bills. But that wasn't my point of emphasis. Money and cap considerations are part of the fabric of business in the NFL. What I find disturbing, if true---and I believe it is---- that the finance people (Littman and Oberdorf) might have approached Nix and instructed him to cut salary. In a cap situation where the team was comfortably under the limit that is not a good sign that there is a committment to being competitive. The central issue has little to do with a particular player transaction. It has everything to do with the process---the way the Bills run their organization.
Bill from NYC Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 From a football standpoint the Evans trade was a good deal for the Bills. But that wasn't my point of emphasis. Money and cap considerations are part of the fabric of business in the NFL. What I find disturbing, if true---and I believe it is---- that the finance people (Littman and Oberdorf) might have approached Nix and instructed him to cut salary. In a cap situation where the team was comfortably under the limit that is not a good sign that there is a committment to being competitive. The central issue has little to do with a particular player transaction. It has everything to do with the process---the way the Bills run their organization. Here is what I don't understand John. I agree with the above. So, how could you fully dismiss any possibility that the Spiller selection was thrust upon Nix, especially given the way they rushed up and took him in seconds? It could have been Littman/Oberforf givong the order, not necessarily Ralph. Seriously, who do you think generated more ticket sales, Spiller or Dareus?
The Big Cat Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Here is what I don't understand John. I agree with the above. So, how could you fully dismiss any possibility that the Spiller selection was thrust upon Nix, especially given the way they rushed up and took him in seconds? It could have been Littman/Oberforf givong the order, not necessarily Ralph. Seriously, who do you think generated more ticket sales, Spiller or Dareus? Okay, so sticking with the "business" theory--how much team revenue is generated by a single player? I'm skeptical. I would think from a pure dollars standpoint, one player would make a marginal contribution, thus weakening your claim. But, if you're so entrenched in the mindset that the FO is a bunch of desperate penny grubbers, I suppose you'd assume they'd do anything for a buck, marginal though it may be. Here is what I don't understand John. I agree with the above. So, how could you fully dismiss any possibility that the Spiller selection was thrust upon Nix, especially given the way they rushed up and took him in seconds? It could have been Littman/Oberforf givong the order, not necessarily Ralph. Seriously, who do you think generated more ticket sales, Spiller or Dareus? Okay, so sticking with the "business" theory--how much team revenue is generated by a single player? I'm skeptical. I would think from a pure dollars standpoint, one player would make a marginal contribution, thus weakening your claim. But, if you're so entrenched in the mindset that the FO is a bunch of desperate penny grubbers, I suppose you'd assume they'd do anything for a buck, marginal though it may be.
JohnC Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Here is what I don't understand John. I agree with the above. So, how could you fully dismiss any possibility that the Spiller selection was thrust upon Nix, especially given the way they rushed up and took him in seconds? It could have been Littman/Oberforf givong the order, not necessarily Ralph. Seriously, who do you think generated more ticket sales, Spiller or Dareus? I don't believe that Ralph and his financial minions forced the Spiller pick. Even if he did that in itself doesn't mean from a football standpoint that it wasn't the right or at least a reasonable selection. There is a number of very logical reasons from a football standpoint that made the pick worthwhile. He was a top ten talent taken within the top ten. He was a potential playmaker added to a team that didn't have many (if any) playmakers on its rosters. The addition of Spiller didn't mean that the Bills weren't over time going to address other critical needs. The next five picks in the first three rounds over the two year period were dedicated to the defense. You are comparing the Spiller pick with the Dareus pick from a marketing standpoint. You are using the wrong metric. You are much too invested in your campaign to discredit the Spiller pick, who by they way was our best offensive player when he got the extended playing time over the last third of the season. The selections of Spiller and Dareus have more in common than you are aware of. Both players were taken in the draft position where they were ranked. If there was a defensive juggernaught available when Spiller was taken then your arguments against the pick would be more persuasive. There wasn't that type of defensive talent on the board when Spiller was picked. As I have often stated when Nix took over this very ramshackled roster he was basically starting from scratch. As you know there are many components to building a competitive roster. You can't address all needs at the same time or in the time frame of one or two drafts. My view is if a pick is made, no matter what the position is, and it materializes into a contributing player relative to its draft position then it was a good pick. Up to this point the Troup and Carrington picks are questionable selections, especially the Troup pick. I thought at the time they over-reached when they picked Troup. However, we should get a better basis to judge those picks this upcoming season. You need to not be so fixated on the Spiller pick. He has started to demonstrate that he is they type of player who can be big play player. What do have against a scintillating a player on a roster of dullards? LOL Edited January 21, 2012 by JohnC
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) I am really surprised this Evans thing keeps coming up. The fact is buffalo got a 4th round pick for what has amounted to the third best wr and the fifth or sixth best threat in BALs passing game. Hardly a good deal for the Ravens. What was proven is the guy just wasn't as good as many contended. When he was traded the crescendo was Stevie won't have nearly the same success without him as a decoy. Well, Stevie had identical production with him and without him and with one of the qb's, incidentally used as a perpetual excuse for lee's lack of production. Those that argue he was a first rounder, well so were Andre Johnson, Ted ginn and Roy Williams. Lee's career lands him somewhere between Roy Williams and Ted Ginn. I'd take a fourth for either of those two at this stage of their careers, probably would want more for Andre, but lee is no Andre Johnson. When you accumulate all of these facts plus. The offloading of cash to cap, this seems like the poster deal in nfl gm 101... Trade an aging declining player to a contender willing to over pay because they are taking their last shot at winning it all before the team falls apart in exchage for a middle to late draft pick to help with the rebuild. Edited January 21, 2012 by over 20 years of fanhood
nucci Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 From a football standpoint the Evans trade was a good deal for the Bills. But that wasn't my point of emphasis. Money and cap considerations are part of the fabric of business in the NFL. What I find disturbing, if true---and I believe it is---- that the finance people (Littman and Oberdorf) might have approached Nix and instructed him to cut salary. In a cap situation where the team was comfortably under the limit that is not a good sign that there is a committment to being competitive. The central issue has little to do with a particular player transaction. It has everything to do with the process---the way the Bills run their organization. Don't mean to cut you off but I was just making this simple point. I agree with you about Littman and Overdorf.
Coach Tuesday Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Here is what I don't understand John. I agree with the above. So, how could you fully dismiss any possibility that the Spiller selection was thrust upon Nix, especially given the way they rushed up and took him in seconds? It could have been Littman/Oberforf givong the order, not necessarily Ralph. Seriously, who do you think generated more ticket sales, Spiller or Dareus? Bill this is where you and I differ here. I didn't love the Spiller pick but I understand it and can live with it from a football standpoint. They're picking in the top 10 and they take their BPA, one of the best players in college football history, and a guy who they believed could instantly change field position on an offense devoid of playmakers. As it turned out, he was slow to learn the offense last year, and then this year FJ blew up in Chan's offense. But over the last month of the season, Spiller was one of the best players in the NFL and looked a helluva lot like Chris Johnson in his prime. Remember, Chan's mantra on offense is efficiency - picking up as much yardage as possible in as few plays. Spiller can do that. I don't consider that pick to be a bust. Having said that, In general, I agree with you (i) that RBs shouldn't be drafted too high; and (ii) the bean counters have been known to make important football decisions, a la signing Terrell Owens. It's a sad reality of being a Bills fan. I'm just not convinced that the Spiller pick is evidence of that unfortunate pattern. And as it turned out, the only player worth taking ahead of him was JPP - and what a player he is... Edited January 21, 2012 by Coach Tuesday
JohnC Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Don't mean to cut you off but I was just making this simple point. I agree with you about Littman and Overdorf. You and I are in accord. You can cut me off any time. I have a tendency to extend a point that doesn't require extending.
marauderswr80 Posted January 21, 2012 Author Posted January 21, 2012 Just want to point out ive never started a thread that went 7 pages deep.....
NoSaint Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Couple early sightings. Flacco looking a little like a deer in headlights not wanting to screw up.
KD in CA Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 1327172541[/url]' post='2367840']Just want to point out ive never started a thread that went 7 pages deep..... congrats! just imagine what'll happen if Evans catches a game winning TD today.
jwolf02 Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Lee's actually having a productive day today. Still don't miss him, though.
Fixxxer Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Lee's actually having a productive day today. Still don't miss him, though. Me neither but I hope he does well with the Ravens. He's a good guy.
Jerry Jabber Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Me neither but I hope he does well with the Ravens. He's a good guy. +1
Simon Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 I think this would be the first time in his career that Evans ever played in a win over the Pats. Hope he gets it today.
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