CodeMonkey Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 I'm late to this party, and the only thing I'll add is that I hope Lee -- talented or otherwise -- uses his one trick to get behind the Pats* secondary two or three times Sunday afternoon and help put a fork in those bastards. Amen my brother, amen.
Jerry Jabber Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 I'm late to this party, and the only thing I'll add is that I hope Lee -- talented or otherwise -- uses his one trick to get behind the Pats* secondary two or three times Sunday afternoon and help put a fork in those bastards.
benderbender Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 I;m sure the fourth rounder will turn out to be a stud. +1
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 I'm not saying it's proof certain - but the odds tilt strongly in the Ravens' favor on this one. If you had to bet on it, which way would you go? I'll state my opinion on the Evans trade one more time. I always liked the guy and in fact, I have his jersey. That said he's washed up, IMO. I feel he's a slightly better player than Peerless Price was… both finesse guys who didn't have the pro body to have a long career (think James Lofton who still competes at the world-class level in senior track events). I think Evans will do very little for the rest of his career Had Evans been on the Bills this year I doubt he would have helped much. In fact if he helped us win one more game, it would have hurt the team, if you get my drift. As far as the 4th rounder we received for Evans, like I've said before. I love the Hairston and Searcy picks. In other words, I'm completely convinced that this will be a good trade for the Bills. There's no downside and only upside IMO.
Coach Tuesday Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 I'll state my opinion on the Evans trade one more time. I always liked the guy and in fact, I have his jersey. That said he's washed up, IMO. I feel he's a slightly better player than Peerless Price was… both finesse guys who didn't have the pro body to have a long career (think James Lofton who still competes at the world-class level in senior track events). I think Evans will do very little for the rest of his career Had Evans been on the Bills this year I doubt he would have helped much. In fact if he helped us win one more game, it would have hurt the team, if you get my drift. As far as the 4th rounder we received for Evans, like I've said before. I love the Hairston and Searcy picks. In other words, I'm completely convinced that this will be a good trade for the Bills. There's no downside and only upside IMO. Fair enough, but let me add a twist to your argument (which is a good one): assume, for the purposes of this discussion, that Gailey and Nix were not in favor of the trade, but it was imposed upon them by Overdorf and Littman (just assume it - let's not get into whether that happened). Would making that assumption change, in any way, your view of the trade?
The Big Cat Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Fair enough, but let me add a twist to your argument (which is a good one): assume, for the purposes of this discussion, that Gailey and Nix were not in favor of the trade, but it was imposed upon them by Overdorf and Littman (just assume it - let's not get into whether that happened). Would making that assumption change, in any way, your view of the trade? Let's assume the Bills weren't from Buffalo, but Tuscan. Would you be on this message board? Fact: Gailey was publicly critical of Evans' game. Your hypothetical is fantastical.
DrDawkinstein Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 I'll state my opinion on the Evans trade one more time. I always liked the guy and in fact, I have his jersey. That said he's washed up, IMO. I feel he's a slightly better player than Peerless Price was… both finesse guys who didn't have the pro body to have a long career (think James Lofton who still competes at the world-class level in senior track events). I think Evans will do very little for the rest of his career Had Evans been on the Bills this year I doubt he would have helped much. In fact if he helped us win one more game, it would have hurt the team, if you get my drift. As far as the 4th rounder we received for Evans, like I've said before. I love the Hairston and Searcy picks. In other words, I'm completely convinced that this will be a good trade for the Bills. There's no downside and only upside IMO. Perfectly stated! There's a lot more to it than "Evans was a 1st round pick! And the Bills are stupid!"
Coach Tuesday Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Let's assume the Bills weren't from Buffalo, but Tuscan. Would you be on this message board? Fact: Gailey was publicly critical of Evans' game. Your hypothetical is fantastical. Ha! MY hypothetical is fanastical - coming from the same obnoxious homer who declared earlier in this thread that the Bills' training staff predicted the Evans injury and decided to try to fleece the Ravens. And meanwhile, my "hypothetical" was reported as a fact from another (very well-respected) poster who claims to have an inside source at OBD. You're a crock, man.
mob16151 Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 I think judging talent is easy. How productive was the player this season? Or in Lee's case, how productive was he when he was healthy this season? Remember, we arent talking about 2006 Lee Evans. How talented is 30 year old, 2011 Lee Evans? He is 4 receptions/74 yards talented. Even if you project that 9 game total generously over 16 games, you get 8rec/150yds. You can find players that produce that much as Undrafted Free Agents or even off of other team's practice squads. And the Bills did, without wasting precious draft picks. Face it, Baltimore and Newsome were desperate for WRs and overpaid based on his name alone, and the arrogant notion that "he just hasnt produced lately because he's on the Bills, wait until we get a hold of him". This
DrDawkinstein Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Ha! MY hypothetical is fanastical - coming from the same obnoxious homer who declared earlier in this thread that the Bills' training staff predicted the Evans injury and decided to try to fleece the Ravens. And meanwhile, my "hypothetical" was reported as a fact from another (very well-respected) poster who claims to have an inside source at OBD. You're a crock, man. The report was actually very vaguely worded and when pressed for more information/clarification, JW did not supply any. He just let you guys get all worked up that it was only a money-man thing. The only thing it clearly said as fact was when Nix went on record saying the money guys worked out the DETAILS of the trade (as in, compensation). It was NEVER reported that the money-men did this without Nix's permission.
The Big Cat Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Ha! MY hypothetical is fanastical - coming from the same obnoxious homer who declared earlier in this thread that the Bills' training staff predicted the Evans injury and decided to try to fleece the Ravens. And meanwhile, my "hypothetical" was reported as a fact from another (very well-respected) poster who claims to have an inside source at OBD. You're a crock, man. You can flame the messenger all you want, no skin off my back. Doesn't change the fact that it's true. http://goo.gl/pYU0V EDIT: as for the medical staff, see all the posts above that also make a strong case that Lee is in the twilight of his "lustrous" career. My take was just from a different angle. You still haven't actually addressed the theory, just me. Edited January 20, 2012 by The Big Cat
Coach Tuesday Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) The report was actually very vaguely worded and when pressed for more information/clarification, JW did not supply any. He just let you guys get all worked up that it was only a money-man thing. The only thing it clearly said as fact was when Nix went on record saying the money guys worked out the DETAILS of the trade (as in, compensation). It was NEVER reported that the money-men did this without Nix's permission. . Nope, I'm talking about Kelly the Dog's report, not JW's, although JW's vague report seemed to give creedence to what KTD's source reported. Edited January 20, 2012 by Coach Tuesday
DrDawkinstein Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 . Nope, I'm talking about Kelly the Dog's report, not JW's, although JW's vague report seemed to give creedence to what KTD's source reported. LOL, as much as I like Kelly as a poster and dont think he'd intentionally make stuff up, I dont trust 3rd or 4th party reports of rumors on something that might have happened a certain way. Especially when they are on the internet.
Coach Tuesday Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 LOL, as much as I like Kelly as a poster and dont think he'd intentionally make stuff up, I dont trust 3rd or 4th party reports of rumors on something that might have happened a certain way. Especially when they are on the internet. ... especially when it would disrupt your worldview to believe them...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 ... especially when it would disrupt your worldview to believe them... Im not the one trying to pretend I know exactly how it went down. I just dont believe vague rumors about how a company operated internally to make a decision.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 I think what people are missing in the Evans argument is that Chan Gailey designed the Bills offense around its talent, or lack there of. The quick strike passing game was not due to Gailey's insistence on a quick strike passing game, or dislike of Evans, it was because Gailey knew that our offensive line could not keep defenders off our QBs back. It was and is glaringly obvious despite sack totals. So the team was coached a certain way, and an offensive was designed around this fact, and Fitz played well (maybe as well as any QB in the league could have played at times) because of his quick decision making and fearlessness and ability to read defenses pre-snap and to get the ball off in two seconds. Where Evans comes in was two-fold. Yes, he took two defenders on the plays because he still had a reputation as a deep threat who would burn teams for touchdowns. But we as an offense didn't have hardly any time to get him the ball and to utilize him where he is most effective. Stevie Johnson was the benefactor last year (2010), and if you didn't notice the difference between how he was covered last year and how he was covered this year (2011), as well as how close defenders were to him after Evans got hurt last year and how close they were this year 99% of the time even though he is one of the best route runners in the league, you were not watching closely or how other teams defended us. What I was told was this. It may or may not be true but it came from a great source and there was never any reason to believe in my eyes that it was not true then or now. The Bills wanted to cut salary. Overdorf (either by himself or instructed by Littman) went to Buddy Nix with a very short list of veteran players with good sized contracts, and basically said we need to get rid of one. Pick which one. Evans was the lesser of evils, I assume, to Nix, because of all factors, including salary, age, position, culture change, want to get bigger across the roster, abundance of POTENTIAL young talent behind him, plus the fact that he was going to be a high paid decoy again simply because we could not get the ball deep, not because he wasn't any good. We didn't have time to throw. (Surely there were exceptions and plays when we did). So Evans became the choice. That all makes sense to me. That is what I believe happened. It is not "fact" to me, although it's possible that it could be fact to Buddy Nix, I do not know. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on it.
nucci Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 If the situation was reversed and we acquired Lee Evans for a 4th round pick and he had the same unproductive season, what would you say? Facts are Evans did nothing this year and most likely his career is over or close to it.
Homey D. Clown Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 I'll state my opinion on the Evans trade one more time. I always liked the guy and in fact, I have his jersey. That said he's washed up, IMO. I feel he's a slightly better player than Peerless Price was… both finesse guys who didn't have the pro body to have a long career (think James Lofton who still competes at the world-class level in senior track events). I think Evans will do very little for the rest of his career Had Evans been on the Bills this year I doubt he would have helped much. In fact if he helped us win one more game, it would have hurt the team, if you get my drift. As far as the 4th rounder we received for Evans, like I've said before. I love the Hairston and Searcy picks. In other words, I'm completely convinced that this will be a good trade for the Bills. There's no downside and only upside IMO. I actually agree with this whole heartedly.
tennesseeboy Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 I think Evans was a promising addition to the Ravens before being injured. His catch last week was stellar, but he only played for eight snaps. The Ravens have really moved on and probably won't be paying him to sit so he will most likely be cut and catch on somewhere else. I think he still has the capacity to start in many places and would have probably started here midway into the season when the injuries started to pile up, if not before. As to whether he has a future...we'll just have to wait and see.
JohnC Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 If the situation was reversed and we acquired Lee Evans for a 4th round pick and he had the same unproductive season, what would you say? Facts are Evans did nothing this year and most likely his career is over or close to it. If it is true that Littman and Oberdorf went to Nix and told him that a certain amount of payroll had to be cut and they listed the players who fell within the salary dump requirements then that in itself, regardless who the dropped player was, is disturbing. The Bills were very much under the cap prior to the probable salary deletions. If the story is true, which I believe it is, it is a testament to how this losing franchise is being run. A similar scenario played out with Hangartner. He wasn't even played in the preseason out of fear that he would get hurt resulting in a salary settlement. I'm not suggesting Hangartner is a key player. But he would have made a good reserve guard/center for the team. There are reasons why the Bills haven't been in the playoffs for a dozen years and counting. There are reasons why the historical record of the franchise is a losing record. The owner's business model is set up to make more money at the expense of being a serious franchise.
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