CodeMonkey Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Right, well the buck shot you bring to every TSW knife fight assumes that anyone who passes through the front doors at OBD is automatically poisoned by the incompetency virus. And I'm certain that the trained medical staff would very much appreciate your arm chair criticism. I mean, what would they know? They're just doctors. So, quite frankly, your opinion on this, like your opinions on most things round here (like seeing the world through a coffee stirrer) neither surprises nor challenges me intellectually. In other words, for the one millionth time, thanks for nothing. You are welcome. Coming from you I take that as a compliment.
Coach Tuesday Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Right, well the buck shot you bring to every TSW knife fight assumes that anyone who passes through the front doors at OBD is automatically poisoned by the incompetency virus. And I'm certain that the trained medical staff would very much appreciate your arm chair criticism. I mean, what would they know? They're just doctors. So, quite frankly, your opinion on this, like your opinions on most things round here (like seeing the world through a coffee stirrer) neither surprises nor challenges me intellectually. In other words, for the one millionth time, thanks for nothing. Wow. Just so we're clear: you've invented a theory (stress, "invented") out of whole cloth, postulating that the Bills' training staff - the same staff beset with some of the highest injury numbers in the NFL over the last five years - somehow predicted Evans' injury, alerted the front office, somehow deceived the Ravens' medical staff (who had to clear Evans pre-trade) and as a result, helped the Bills pull off a heist. And not only have you invented that theory, you're now defending it from any perceived criticism. Congratulations Big Cat - they're working on your bronze bust for the Homers Hall of Fame as we speak. You've truly, truly hit an astonishing new low.
DaveinElma Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 So our training staff is so good they can predict Evans' injury (despite the fact he only missed 5 starts in his final 6 years in buffalo), yet they can't predict injuries to our own guys? No but considering that Lee was 30, had a major knee injury at Wisconsin and had diminishing production that last two seasons it was a pretty smart bet that his best days were behind him.
CodeMonkey Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 No but considering that Lee was 30, had a major knee injury at Wisconsin and had diminishing production that last two seasons it was a pretty smart bet that his best days were behind him. Best days behind him, sure. Even the Ravens knew that. But predicting he would get injured?
thewildrabbit Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 IDC what any of you say, this team could have used his skill set, his experience and veteran leadership on the field and in the locker room. Never mind the fact that the team really couldn't utilize his full skill set because they don't have any semblance of a deep passing game. In case most of you missed the sarcasm in my other post, Brad Smith was listed on the DC as the #3 QB and #2 WR, and he wasn't getting it done from my view. Derek Hagan was better. The 4 guys they tried as center didn't get it done once Wood went on IR. It is very conceivable that this team wins more then 6 games this year if they keep Evans, Hangartner...but then. it isn't about winning is it.
QCity Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Selling off talent to free up a few bucks for ralphie is still not a good way to run a franchise, and the next time they do it, they may end up getting burned. It's not the trade, its the mentality behind the trade that most of us are arguing against. There's that word again. Talent. Did anyone ever stop and think that maybe Evans isn't a talented receiver? Did you ever consider that those anemic offenses of the Captain Checkdown years might have had something to do with the fact that Evans simply can't get open underneath? That's he's a 5'10" one-trick pony that can't outleap today's 6'+ CBs to fight for the ball? (incoming Revis YouTube video) That he is a horrible route-runner and gets absolutely smothered inside the red zone? That he never had a double digit TD season and he averages 3.2 receptions a game over his career? Is this where we make excuses that he never had a QB, yet his #2 receiver nearly doubled his production last year? Or is this where we play the injury card? Please, someone help me. What is it about Evans that has so many Bills fans enchanted with him? I mean, it has to be the number 83 right? Or are they still clinging to that 11-catch 265 yard game he had 6 years ago? This has had me baffled for the past 5 years. Someone enlighten me.
Jerry Jabber Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 There's that word again. Talent. Did anyone ever stop and think that maybe Evans isn't a talented receiver? Did you ever consider that those anemic offenses of the Captain Checkdown years might have had something to do with the fact that Evans simply can't get open underneath? That's he's a 5'10" one-trick pony that can't outleap today's 6'+ CBs to fight for the ball? (incoming Revis YouTube video) That he is a horrible route-runner and gets absolutely smothered inside the red zone? That he never had a double digit TD season and he averages 3.2 receptions a game over his career? Is this where we make excuses that he never had a QB, yet his #2 receiver nearly doubled his production last year? Or is this where we play the injury card? Please, someone help me. What is it about Evans that has so many Bills fans enchanted with him? I mean, it has to be the number 83 right? Or are they still clinging to that 11-catch 265 yard game he had 6 years ago? This has had me baffled for the past 5 years. Someone enlighten me. Evans lovers will throw in every excuse in the world why Evans hasn't been successful...The QB, The O-line, the coordinators, the coaches, the other WR's on the team, but like you said, we've seen a 7th round pick (Johnson) nearly double Evans' production. The year after Evans got his contract extension (which was also the same year his buddy Losman was gone), Evans' numbers went in the toilet.
Ray Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 There's that word again. Talent. Did anyone ever stop and think that maybe Evans isn't a talented receiver? Did you ever consider that those anemic offenses of the Captain Checkdown years might have had something to do with the fact that Evans simply can't get open underneath? That's he's a 5'10" one-trick pony that can't outleap today's 6'+ CBs to fight for the ball? (incoming Revis YouTube video) That he is a horrible route-runner and gets absolutely smothered inside the red zone? That he never had a double digit TD season and he averages 3.2 receptions a game over his career? Is this where we make excuses that he never had a QB, yet his #2 receiver nearly doubled his production last year? Or is this where we play the injury card? Please, someone help me. What is it about Evans that has so many Bills fans enchanted with him? I mean, it has to be the number 83 right? Or are they still clinging to that 11-catch 265 yard game he had 6 years ago? This has had me baffled for the past 5 years. Someone enlighten me. I am not sure people are "enchanted" with him as much as he would have been very nice to have on a roster full of no talent WRs. Donald Jones is no Lee Evans and never will be and neither is Hagan or Roosevelt or whoever we plugged in there and that is the point. You had a proven NFL caliber WR who other teams respected whether or not yo believe that. He is not an "elite" receiver now but is a very good receiver with excellent speed that does not have hands of stone like D Jones. There was no reason to unload a guy who was a valuable WR to your team who cost you what 3M against thte cap and you had NOBODY to replace him. That proved correct as the season went on you realized the Bills had NOBODY opposite SJ. That is what myself and others were saying at the beginning of the year and it turned out to be true. Now the Bills need to draft a WR very high in the draft as a complement to SJ. I think everyone realized that SJ had become the number one.....but it would have been helpful to have a legit number 2, that is all.
Coach Tuesday Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Evans lovers will throw in every excuse in the world why Evans hasn't been successful...The QB, The O-line, the coordinators, the coaches, the other WR's on the team, but like you said, we've seen a 7th round pick (Johnson) nearly double Evans' production. The year after Evans got his contract extension (which was also the same year his buddy Losman was gone), Evans' numbers went in the toilet. Who is a better talent evaluator, Ozzie Newsome, or the decision-makers at OBD and Jerry Jabber? I'll go with Newsome.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 There's that word again. Talent. Did anyone ever stop and think that maybe Evans isn't a talented receiver? Did you ever consider that those anemic offenses of the Captain Checkdown years might have had something to do with the fact that Evans simply can't get open underneath? That's he's a 5'10" one-trick pony that can't outleap today's 6'+ CBs to fight for the ball? (incoming Revis YouTube video) That he is a horrible route-runner and gets absolutely smothered inside the red zone? That he never had a double digit TD season and he averages 3.2 receptions a game over his career? Is this where we make excuses that he never had a QB, yet his #2 receiver nearly doubled his production last year? Or is this where we play the injury card? Please, someone help me. What is it about Evans that has so many Bills fans enchanted with him? I mean, it has to be the number 83 right? Or are they still clinging to that 11-catch 265 yard game he had 6 years ago? This has had me baffled for the past 5 years. Someone enlighten me. Great post! 100% spot on.
The Big Cat Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Who is a better talent evaluator, Ozzie Newsome, or the decision-makers at OBD and Jerry Jabber? I'll go with Newsome. Yeah, it's that simple. By this logic, Gailey was wrong to cut Edwards because the dying Bill Walsh gave Trentative a stamp of approval.
DrDawkinstein Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Who is a better talent evaluator, Ozzie Newsome, or the decision-makers at OBD and Jerry Jabber? I'll go with Newsome. If by decision-makers at OBD you mean Nix and Whaley, then I'll take Nix and Whaley every time. Edited January 18, 2012 by DrDareustein
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Who is a better talent evaluator, Ozzie Newsome, or the decision-makers at OBD and Jerry Jabber? I'll go with Newsome. Yes, and it's well-documented that Newsome has never made even a single mistake in his career as an NFL executive. You're right. The Ravens must have gotten the better of the trade.
Jerry Jabber Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Who is a better talent evaluator, Ozzie Newsome, or the decision-makers at OBD and Jerry Jabber? I'll go with Newsome. I could have done a much better job at building a team, than the clowns that were running the show at OBD before Nix showed up.
Coach Tuesday Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Yes, and it's well-documented that Newsome has never made even a single mistake in his career as an NFL executive. You're right. The Ravens must have gotten the better of the trade. I'm not saying it's proof certain - but the odds tilt strongly in the Ravens' favor on this one. If you had to bet on it, which way would you go?
The Big Cat Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 I'm not saying it's proof certain - but the odds tilt strongly in the Ravens' favor on this one. If you had to bet on it, which way would you go? What exactly are you asking him to bet? That Ozzie is better than OBD?...and Jerry Jabber?
Coach Tuesday Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 What exactly are you asking him to bet? That Ozzie is better than OBD?...and Jerry Jabber? You know exactly what I'm saying. The dispute in this thread is whether or not Evans is talented. Those (like myself) claiming that he is, contend that the Bills shouldn't have dumped talent for a 4th round draft pick (in order to save a few dollars). Those (like Jabber) claiming that he isn't, argue that the Bills got themselves a great deal. Since none of us know for sure, I'm arguing that the fact that the Ravens were willing to deal a mid-round draft pick for Evans is strong evidence that he is, in fact, quite talented. This is because, in my view, the Ravens tend to be much better at player evaluation than the Bills. While it's true that the Ravens could have goofed, if I had to bet on it, I'd put my money on the Ravens knowing what they're doing. (Then again, we know that you'd move all in on your theory that the Bills' training staff saw all of this coming, and managed to outsmart everyone.)
DrDawkinstein Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) You know exactly what I'm saying. The dispute in this thread is whether or not Evans is talented. Those (like myself) claiming that he is, contend that the Bills shouldn't have dumped talent for a 4th round draft pick (in order to save a few dollars). Those (like Jabber) claiming that he isn't, argue that the Bills got themselves a great deal. Since none of us know for sure, I'm arguing that the fact that the Ravens were willing to deal a mid-round draft pick for Evans is strong evidence that he is, in fact, quite talented. This is because, in my view, the Ravens tend to be much better at player evaluation than the Bills. While it's true that the Ravens could have goofed, if I had to bet on it, I'd put my money on the Ravens knowing what they're doing. (Then again, we know that you'd move all in on your theory that the Bills' training staff saw all of this coming, and managed to outsmart everyone.) I think judging talent is easy. How productive was the player this season? Or in Lee's case, how productive was he when he was healthy this season? Remember, we arent talking about 2006 Lee Evans. How talented is 30 year old, 2011 Lee Evans? He is 4 receptions/74 yards talented. Even if you project that 9 game total generously over 16 games, you get 8rec/150yds. You can find players that produce that much as Undrafted Free Agents or even off of other team's practice squads. And the Bills did, without wasting precious draft picks. Face it, Baltimore and Newsome were desperate for WRs and overpaid based on his name alone, and the arrogant notion that "he just hasnt produced lately because he's on the Bills, wait until we get a hold of him". Edited January 19, 2012 by DrDareustein
Jerry Jabber Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 You know exactly what I'm saying. The dispute in this thread is whether or not Evans is talented. Those (like myself) claiming that he is, contend that the Bills shouldn't have dumped talent for a 4th round draft pick (in order to save a few dollars). Those (like Jabber) claiming that he isn't, argue that the Bills got themselves a great deal. Since none of us know for sure, I'm arguing that the fact that the Ravens were willing to deal a mid-round draft pick for Evans is strong evidence that he is, in fact, quite talented. This is because, in my view, the Ravens tend to be much better at player evaluation than the Bills. While it's true that the Ravens could have goofed, if I had to bet on it, I'd put my money on the Ravens knowing what they're doing. (Then again, we know that you'd move all in on your theory that the Bills' training staff saw all of this coming, and managed to outsmart everyone.) I judged Evans by his production in his last 2 years as a Bill and by his current production as a Raven. Stats and Potential are two different things. I think a lot of us on TBD could have done a much better job at building a team and evaluating talent on the Bills after John Butler went to SD. I sure as hell wouldn't have wasted multiple first round picks on RB's and CB's over the past decade. With playing one of the best QB's in the game (Brady) twice a year, I would have went out and got multiple pass rushers to get after him all game long, instead of having just 1 pass rusher (Schobel), or trying to have a great secondary (like Jauron tried assembling). And I sure as hell wouldn't have had the lollipop guild as my WR corps (Evans, Josh Reed, Parrish, Price). I would have had a big physical WR (an Eric Moulds type) as my #1, 1 speedy WR as my #2 (who is a deep threat), followed by WR's with some size that can outleap and outmuscle DB's. Also, I would have had 1 receiving TE. With playing in a cold weather city, you need bigger physical guys, espcially when the weather gets bad. If you want to have a smaller, speedy guys, then you that's great if you're playing in a dome or in a warm weather city. I would have heavily invested draft picks (from rounds 1-3) on both the offensive and defensive lines. If you have a brick wall for an O-line that can protect your QB and open huge holes in the run game, then you don't need to invest in a high draft pick on a RB (see Denver's RB's under Shanahan). If your defensive front 7 can stop the run, and get constant pressure on the QB, then you don't need to invest heavily (like the Bills have) on CB's in the first and 2nd rounds. There's no way in hell I would have went for the idea of the Tampa 2 defense. As far as coordinator's go, I would want someone that is experienced and has been successful, like Phillips, G. Williams, and not a "Yes Sir" type or someone that was in over their head. That's just my opinion on how I would run things, but what do I know, I'm just a fan.
eball Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 I'm late to this party, and the only thing I'll add is that I hope Lee -- talented or otherwise -- uses his one trick to get behind the Pats* secondary two or three times Sunday afternoon and help put a fork in those bastards.
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