Sign our FA's already (Ralph is cheap)

[Cal Bill's Fan]

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article710405.ece

 

To win in the NFL today you need a bunch of skill position players on offense. Ralph, please sign SJ and Chandler all ready. They aren't gonna get any cheaper - you missed that window.

Also Bell - Good tackles are prime finds. He has a history of injury, but 1/2 a season of good LT play is better than any other option.

 

And yes you are going to have to overpay your stars to get and or keep them on losing team in a small market. Once you build a winner again, then you can get the chance to deal for players willing to play for a chance to play for a contender at a lower wage (like in Green Bay now).

[CBD]

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article710405.ece

 

To win in the NFL today you need a bunch of skill position players on offense. Ralph, please sign SJ and Chandler all ready. They aren't gonna get any cheaper - you missed that window.

Also Bell - Good tackles are prime finds. He has a history of injury, but 1/2 a season of good LT play is better than any other option.

And yes you are going to have to overpay your stars to get and or keep them on losing team in a small market. Once you build a winner again, then you can get the chance to deal for players willing to play for a chance to play for a contender at a lower wage (like in Green Bay now).

A full season of good LT play would be better than a half and unless the price for Bell represents that I wouldn't bother signing him.

 

We want Scott back, we do. I think, again, we want to keep the good players and he’s one of them. If we can keep him at the right price, we will. You look at the guys, and I’m just saying what I said awhile ago, a lot of it’s when they get their opportunity, like C.J. When Chan came here, Stevie Johnson couldn’t get on the field, Ryan Fitzpatrick was a second or third thought at quarterback…Scott Chandler going into this year caught one ball in his career, one. [san Diego] drafted him in 2007, so I guess my point is those guys are probably more productive and more important to us than they may be to somebody else. I don’t know that. They [players] may want to find out. If they do and it’s more and they get what they want, more power to them. But I’m just saying that a lot of times that grass looks a lot greener but it may not be.

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Transcript-General-Manager-Buddy-Nix/037507a7-365d-401e-9d19-477e152d0082

 

Sounds to me like Scott may be overvaluing his one big season in Buddy's eyes. I'm guessing he gets to test the market.

 

Other than SJ none of these guys are "stars".

Edited January 15, 2012 by Carey Bender

[Bronc24]

A full season of good LT play would be better than a half and unless the price for Bell represents that I wouldn't bother signing him.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Transcript-General-Manager-Buddy-Nix/037507a7-365d-401e-9d19-477e152d0082

 

Sounds to me like Scott may be overvaluing his one big season in Buddy's eyes. I'm guessing he gets to test the market.

 

Other than SJ none of these guys are stars.

We are millions under the cap. People on this board treat Ralph's money like it's their own. You don't pay a guy, you need to find a replacement or waste a draft pick to replace him. The never ending cycle of mediocrity continues....you have to retain your FA that have talent. Spend the $$$.

[NoSaint]

We are millions under the cap. People on this board treat Ralph's money like it's their own. You don't pay a guy, you need to find a replacement or waste a draft pick to replace him. The never ending cycle of mediocrity continues....you have to retain your FA that have talent. Spend the $$$.

 

What do you do with the ones lacking talent or easily hurt?

[CBD]

We are millions under the cap. People on this board treat Ralph's money like it's their own. You don't pay a guy, you need to find a replacement or waste a draft pick to replace him. The never ending cycle of mediocrity continues....you have to retain your FA that have talent. Spend the $$$.

Spending the money on mediocre players continues the never ending cycle of mediocrity.

[Original Byrd Man]

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article710405.ece

 

To win in the NFL today you need a bunch of skill position players on offense. Ralph, please sign SJ and Chandler all ready. They aren't gonna get any cheaper - you missed that window.

Also Bell - Good tackles are prime finds. He has a history of injury, but 1/2 a season of good LT play is better than any other option.

 

And yes you are going to have to overpay your stars to get and or keep them on losing team in a small market. Once you build a winner again, then you can get the chance to deal for players willing to play for a chance to play for a contender at a lower wage (like in Green Bay now).

The front office seems to be clueless in regards to free agency dealings. SJ should have been resigned before the start of the season or better yet at the end of last season. I realize there were questions about his ability to compete at the same level following his break out year, and you don't want to over pay, but by waiting till he did you are now forced to pay premium dollars to keep him. Even Chandler has been miss managed. The staff liked this guy,why not renegiote a deal for a guy who had 1 career catch. My guess is his demands wouldn't have been to high, now who knows. It's not like we were at the cap level. I seriously hope they figure it out some day

[Doc]

A full season of good LT play would be better than a half and unless the price for Bell represents that I wouldn't bother signing him.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Transcript-General-Manager-Buddy-Nix/037507a7-365d-401e-9d19-477e152d0082

 

Sounds to me like Scott may be overvaluing his one big season in Buddy's eyes. I'm guessing he gets to test the market.

 

Other than SJ none of these guys are "stars".

Yep, it looks like Chandler wants the big payday, despite less than a season and not the greatest production outside of 6 TD's. I wouldn't break the bank on keeping him. He's better than what the Bills have had, but they could do better.

 

As for Bell, again it depends on his contract demands. Judging by what Buddy said, it appears he's also looking for mad money. Good luck getting it on the open market, but in any case, I think he's gone.

 

Now SJ is an interesting case. There will be several top-talent WR's available in FA. Do the Bills give SJ a huge contract over a guy like Bowe, Jackson, or Colston? Colston may be a longshot, but Bowe has talked about playing for Gailey, and Jackson was drafted while Nix was in SD.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Doc

[Dr. Trooth]

Also Bell - Good tackles are prime finds. He has a history of injury, but 1/2 a season of good LT play is better than any other option.

 

Yes... the better option would be to go and get a tackle better and more dependable than Bell. That should be quite easy. The Bills only need to be committed to doing that.

[BillsVet]

Still probably too many holes to address in one off-season, and that's before they switched to a 40 front. Need another receiver even if SJ is re-signed, another pass rusher who most likely will need to be a hybrid type, a starting offensive tackle, and a starting LB. That's a lot to acquire for a team that typically doesn't engage top free agents.

 

I suspect RW isn't aware of the issues we discuss on TBD and has deferred much of the decisions regarding day to day ops to Littman and Brandon with Overdorf assisting. To blame the elderly owner is pointless as there are others setting the budget and managing the franchise for him. That Nix mentioned Littmann as a cap guy is very telling, in that his name isn't mentioned all that often.

[T master]

What do you do with the ones lacking talent or easily hurt?

 

I think in Bell's case if they can get him at a decent price he would be a great depth player . One thing that this team lacks & both Chan & Buddy said it last year before the season started was good depth . Well here is a chance to sign a player that is good when healthy but the health part is the problem .

 

So sign him first and pick up a good tackle prospect in the draft while keeping Hairiston & developing him to see what he has & the teams depth just continues to get better . If Bell get's hurt again next season you trade him for a late round pick so you at least get some kind of return for him . Who knows you might get another Stevie in the 7th round !!!!

[JohnC]

Still probably too many holes to address in one off-season, and that's before they switched to a 40 front. Need another receiver even if SJ is re-signed, another pass rusher who most likely will need to be a hybrid type, a starting offensive tackle, and a starting LB. That's a lot to acquire for a team that typically doesn't engage top free agents.

 

I suspect RW isn't aware of the issues we discuss on TBD and has deferred much of the decisions regarding day to day ops to Littman and Brandon with Overdorf assisting. To blame the elderly owner is pointless as there are others setting the budget and managing the franchise for him. That Nix mentioned Littmann as a cap guy is very telling, in that his name isn't mentioned all that often.

 

You are correct that an owner in his 90s with physical impairments and sometimes mental lapses is not involved in the day to day operation in his very lucrative business. But the structure of the operation (business) has been set up by the owner a long time ago. Littman and Oberdorf were empowered by he the owner when he was much more virbrant. This is a Ralph Wilson designed operation, even as he fades. The franchise wasn't designed to win so much as it was to make money.

 

I agree with you that not all of the team's weaknesses can be addressed in one offseason. But the shame of it is this owner and his finance advisors have handcuffed this organization to the point that this franchise is not participating in the free agency market the way most other franchises are. I'm not talking about blockbuster star signings; I'm talking about reasonable priced and good value pickups that will help bolster a roster.

 

I've said it in other postings that as long as Ralph Wilson is the owner the Bills will never be participants in the playoffs. The best that we can do under his archaic stewardship is being a more competitive team.

Edited January 15, 2012 by JohnC

[bowery4]

You are correct that an owner in his 90s with physical impairments and sometimes mental lapses is not involved in the day to day operation in his very lucrative business. But the structure of the operation (business) has been set up by the owner a long time ago. Littman and Oberdorf were empowered by he the owner when he was much more virbrant. This is a Ralph Wilson designed operation, even as he fades. The franchise wasn't designed to win so much as it was to make money.

 

I agree with you that not all of the team's weaknesses can be addressed in one offseason. But the shame of it is this owner and his finance advisors have handcuffed this organization to the point that this franchise is not participating in the free agency market the way most other franchises are. I'm not talking about blockbuster star signings; I'm talking about reasonable priced and good value pickups that will help bolster a roster.

 

I've said it in other postings that as long as Ralph Wilson is the owner the Bills will never be participants in the playoffs. The best that we can do under his archaic stewardship is being a more competitive team.

 

Up until this FO with Buddy at the helm, I would agree with you. But I have a feeling about this year. Maybe he just excited me with his presser or something but I think he knows the 3 year rule with Ralph (and even more so the fans so it seems). At the meeting in Detriot, I would bet he got a blessing to get a star or two even if it is going to cost something or he wouldn't have been so bold to say as much in the presser. I think he will do his best to fill the 6 or 7 holes the team still has AND sign a playmaker or 3 in the process. Bowe or VJ at WR is my big names prediction. I think they draft DE/OLB to get the pass rusher in a couple of early rounds, I hope they do more than that. I hope we go into the season with lots of lb help.

 

If Chandler walks, well there is a limit to the purse. I hope he doesn't but I am pretty certain he must of started high in the negotiations to even get that response. I think the FO must have felt a bit insulted (or something like it) that he would run for the $s after they gave him his chance. I know RW is "cheap" but they are not far from having the pieces IMO. I am sure RW wants to improve his reputation and legacy and get back to the POs at the very least. I bet his only wet dreams these days are about winning a Superbowl. I find it kind of strange that he has mucked it up so much in the past but maybe he was thinking mostly about profits. The deals in place now and the stability of TV money must make him feel more secure about money IMO. It is time to pay some ppl and I think that gets done.

 

Also worth mentioning, even with the Poz and Whitner losses last year they DID have something. Poz got overpayed and we got a deal, it isn't cheap in my mind as much as shrewd especially considering the player who replaced him. Whitner was out played by his back up last year and testing the market didn't really work out well for him. After the Balt game today and the draft we can say one way or another how the Evans trade looks a year in (I kind of think it worked out well at this point). I can think of a couple of mistakes that BN has made but for the most part I am happy with the job he is doing (of course if I am completely wrong and FA and the draft both are disappointing, I will lose some of that faith and you can call me on it).

[JohnC]

Up until this FO with Buddy at the helm, I would agree with you. But I have a feeling about this year. Maybe he just excited me with his presser or something but I think he knows the 3 year rule with Ralph (and even more so the fans so it seems). At the meeting in Detriot, I would bet he got a blessing to get a star or two even if it is going to cost something or he wouldn't have been so bold to say as much in the presser. I think he will do his best to fill the 6 or 7 holes the team still has AND sign a playmaker or 3 in the process. Bowe or VJ at WR is my big names prediction. I think they draft DE/OLB to get the pass rusher in a couple of early rounds, I hope they do more than that. I hope we go into the season with lots of lb help.

 

If Chandler walks, well there is a limit to the purse. I hope he doesn't but I am pretty certain he must of started high in the negotiations to even get that response. I think the FO must have felt a bit insulted (or something like it) that he would run for the $s after they gave him his chance. I know RW is "cheap" but they are not far from having the pieces IMO. I am sure RW wants to improve his reputation and legacy and get back to the POs at the very least. I bet his only wet dreams these days are about winning a Superbowl. I find it kind of strange that he has mucked it up so much in the past but maybe he was thinking mostly about profits. The deals in place now and the stability of TV money must make him feel more secure about money IMO. It is time to pay some ppl and I think that gets done.

 

Also worth mentioning, even with the Poz and Whitner losses last year they DID have something. Poz got overpayed and we got a deal, it isn't cheap in my mind as much as shrewd especially considering the player who replaced him. Whitner was out played by his back up last year and testing the market didn't really work out well for him. After the Balt game today and the draft we can say one way or another how the Evans trade looks a year in (I kind of think it worked out well at this point). I can think of a couple of mistakes that BN has made but for the most part I am happy with the job he is doing (of course if I am completely wrong and FA and the draft both are disappointing, I will lose some of that faith and you can call me on it).

 

More than one local sports commentator gave the same story last season that Littman/Oberdorf instructed Buddy that he had to cut a particular amount from the payroll. He was told that it was his decision to select the player or players to be cut in order to meet their lowered budget. There was no surprise by anyone who followed the Bills that when Hangartner was not played in the preseason to avoid an injury settlement that he was the player who was going to be cut. I distinctly remember that Paul Hamilton from WGR said prior to the season that it was evident by the way Hangartner was being handled that he was going to be released.

 

I'm not suggesting that Hangartner was an exceptional player. He wasn't. But he would have been a good utility lineman who could back up the center and guard position. I'm sure you remember that Woods had a year ending knee injury. As everyone knows the Bills were at that time substantially under the cap. But this chicken poop organization was still squeezing the payroll when it wasn't necessary. Is there any doubt that one of the primary reasons that this team faltered as the season advanced was their lack of a reserves?

 

My point is simple and basic. The organization is designed to make as much as it can at the expense of being a serious team. The franchise isn't changing its approach as Ralph Wilson fades. The organizational architecture is in place with Littman and Oberdorf being more empowered.

 

As I stated in prior postings the Bills can become a more competitive team. But only up to a point. Forget about the playoffs. It is not going to happen while Ralph and his minions are involved with this franchise.

[uncle flap]

HOPEFULLY, the cost-cutting moves of last year are not indicative of being cheap, but rather foresight, knowing that re-signing fitz, SJ, fred, and others were in the cards.

 

it would've been nice to have hangartner to back up wood this year, but not at the expense of letting stevie walk.

 

i'm not saying it's one or the other, but the mentality very well could've been, "save this year, spend the next few."

 

i dont mean to defend ralph, but if i cant paint an optimistic picture, i shouldnt even bother rooting for them.

 

edit: i realize my reasoning is flawed, since stevie isnt already locked up, and he prob wouldve if they were really looking that far ahead

Edited January 15, 2012 by uncle flap

[RyanC883]

We are millions under the cap. People on this board treat Ralph's money like it's their own. You don't pay a guy, you need to find a replacement or waste a draft pick to replace him. The never ending cycle of mediocrity continues....you have to retain your FA that have talent. Spend the $$$.

 

 

exactly. well said. we don't resign Bell, need to replace him. This is what happened with the RB situation. How many great players did we miss on because we were busy replacing McGahee and Lynch?

 

Spending the money on mediocre players continues the never ending cycle of mediocrity.

 

 

 

There not medicore players, they are called "role players' and "backups." People complain about the lack depth, but you don't get solid depth unless you spend to the cap with a mix of good-great players and role-backup players.

[CBD]

There not medicore players, they are called "role players' and "backups." People complain about the lack depth, but you don't get solid depth unless you spend to the cap with a mix of good-great players and role-backup players.

Fine, they're role players who presumably want good starter money. They should just sign them for whatever they want because they don't have anything better currently? Or cause the Bills have the cap space to? Also the tone from Nix's comments on Chandler were that he feels he could be replaced with just about anyone. Not saying it's true, but if that's his feelings on the guy why would he sign him to a big money contract. I'm with you on wanting them to retain their current players, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to also be somewhat responsible with the contracts handed out to these "role" players.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Carey Bender

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Hangartner would have helped the Bills in exactly one game this year… the game where Levitre was having a hard time with the shotgun snaps.

 

Other than that game, center and guard were never a problem for this team. Between Wood, Levitre, Urbik, Rinehart, and Brown, the team got very solid interior line play.

 

I think it's valid to say that Hangartner's release may have been motivated by finances but IMO, it turns out that we didn't miss him at all.

 

As far as Chandler I'm sure the Bills know his price and that the club and player (agent also) are not seeing eye-to-eye.

 

The Bills extended Erik Pears during the season. I feel the team probably approached Chandler about an extension too, but that the two sides couldn't get it done.

Edited January 16, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan

[JohnC]

Hangartner would have helped the Bills in exactly one game this year… the game where Levitre was having a hard time with the shotgun snaps.

 

Other than that game, center and guard were never a problem for this team. Between Wood, Levitre, Urbik, Rinehart, and Brown, the team got very solid interior line play.

 

I think it's valid to say that Hangartner's release may have been motivated by finances but IMO, it turns out that we didn't miss him at all.

 

As far as Chandler I'm sure the Bills know his price and that the club and player (agent also) are not seeing eye-to-eye.

 

The Bills extended Chad Rinehart during the season. I feel the team probably approached Chandler about an extension too, but that the two sides couldn't get it done.

 

The Bills have had 19 winning seasons out of 51. They currently have the ignominious distinction of the longest playoff drought of any team in the league. The issue isn't any single maneuver or two. The issue is how does your organization compare to the other more serious franchises in the league. The point I'm making is that this organization dismal record isn't due to bad luck. It is the natural result of decisions orginating out of the owner's office.

 

This past season the Bills dramatically faded in the second half of the year. In a collisision sport noted for its high frequency of injuries not providing for an adequate level of reserves is a recipe for failure. This franchise is notorious for squeezing the payroll and leaving the roster thin. It is not surprising that when the inevitable injuries happened the losses mounted.

 

The point I have repeatingly made is that this franchise is structured in such a way that it is improbable, if not impossible, to be a serious contending team. The most that anyone can expect under the current ownershp is a comptetitive team without any realistic hope of being a championship caliber team.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I understand your point, John and nowhere did I disagree.

 

I just wanted to point out that in this case, the "loss" of Hangartner really didn't hurt.

[BillsfaninFl]

Several posts here make excellent points. Yet there are still people who think the future may be bright. I like their "hope springs eternal" attitude in the face of no real evidence of improvement.

 

But the facts are that each year the Bills have as many holes to fill as the year before.

To the dreamers who respond with their annual "I've got a feeling we are headed in the right direction," go back and look at the comments each off-season. For every good player added, there is generally a position weakened. Whether you believe the Bills are two, six or twenty players away from being a playoff team, Looking at the big picture shows they are no closer now than they were at the millenium.