BADOLBILZ Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 They didn't want a repeat of last year, so they duplicated power runners in ivory and Ingram to make sure one would be in the playoffs. Ivory got to sit, Ingram got hurt and won't be in the run. They are still in great shape. They'd take him in a heartbeat. The real surprise that might've changed that was how well bell played for them early in camp. When you are rich......you can afford luxury. Oppulence.....they has it. I love Fred Jackson, but the RB position in the NFL is not a 1st round draft pick compensatory pick position. I think that he is totally respected in the NFL, but given his age, and his position, there is no way anyone even remotely considers a trade of a 1st rounder for him. I agree. And this IS the Buffalo Bills..................so the more pertinent question is would you trade Fred Jackson for a 4th round pick in 2013.
NewEra Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 1326489050[/url]' post='2362557']Its all good, but I stand by my original statement...I only capitalized to emphasize not yell, so I recognize that it doesnt always come across that way and should clarify better...maybe I should use underlines instead. I dont follow hockey, so my broadening my statement over all sports was probably too general. I should have kept it specific to football and the scenario...so let me update my statement to read: No GM in football will ever part with a first round pick for a 31 year old RB who just broke his leg. RB's are too easily replaced to give up such a bounty for one that has 1 to 2 years left in the tank max. Sorry but you are incorrect...The Raiders gave up a first and second for a 31 year old QB (now 32) who plays a position that in todays NFL you can play to a very high level until late 30's or even to 40. Not even comparable...now you may disagree that Carson can still be a good QB (I also think he sucks and this trade was stupid), but clearly, the Raiders thought otherwise given their connection to him. It also was one of the reason Hue just lost his job... As I said, I agree it was a bad trade, one of the worst IMO as Carson hasnt been worth that since his mid 20's...but the fact remains, if he does get his groove back he could be their QB for the next 6 years easily. And QB is one of, if not the most, important positions in all of competitive team sports. FJ has maybe one or 2 years left in him to be a top RB, and even that is debateable as we dont know how he will come back from the broken leg. And he plays one of the most replaceable positions in football. The 2nd becomes a first if they won a playoff game this year or next year. Most likely a 2nd, but possibly a 1st. He's not towards the end of his career? He retired. He's had multiple injuries. He's not very good either. The fact remains, that you said NO GM would give up a first round pick for a player that is nearing the end of his career. The raiders gave up a 1st and 2nd (I'll give you that. They won't win a layoff game with Palmer) for a bum qb near the end of his career. Don't say never. That's my point.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 The 2nd becomes a first if they won a playoff game this year or next year. Most likely a 2nd, but possibly a 1st. He's not towards the end of his career? He retired. He's had multiple injuries. He's not very good either. The fact remains, that you said NO GM would give up a first round pick for a player that is nearing the end of his career. The raiders gave up a 1st and 2nd (I'll give you that. They won't win a layoff game with Palmer) for a bum qb near the end of his career. Don't say never. That's my point. Clearly this is not true...its true in your opinion because of your personal view of Palmer, but clearly the Raiders felt differently about his longevity than you (or I for that matter as I do share the opinion that he is not worth what they paid). The retirement is not indicative of his shelf life, it was a personal decision not based on age but based on him being sick of playing in Cincy. A 31 year old QB is not over the hill and can still put up 6 to 8 great to good years in todays NFL the way they protect the QB. Its realistic to expect the Raiders could get 5 really good years out of Palmer assuming they could help him regain the form he briefly showed prior to that knee injury. I agree it was a terrible trade, but in terms of age, Palmer has plenty of football left in him for a QB...whether he can play well enough to validate what they gave up to get him is another story. FJ is at about the end of a career in terms of his age based on the position he plays. If Palmer was 37 when they traded for him then you would have point in comparing them...but FJ does not have 5 years of highly productive potential, in fact, no one expects him to be effective for more than a year or two (if even that as he is coming off a broken leg) and he plays one of the easiest positions to replace in football. Plus Palmer plays a position where veteran experience is highly valued and FJ plays a position where youth is much more highly valued than age and experience. So while I see your point that Palmer trade was terrible, it still will never happen with a player like FJ. It just wont happen with a player like FJ nor any other 31 year old RB who has been solid but not spectacular most of his career will ever get traded for a first round pick after breaking his leg (or even without the injury for that matter).
major Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 No. You don't trade a guy that made up most of your offense before his injury
bowery4 Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 The 2nd becomes a first if they won a playoff game this year or next year. Most likely a 2nd, but possibly a 1st. He's not towards the end of his career? He retired. He's had multiple injuries. He's not very good either. The fact remains, that you said NO GM would give up a first round pick for a player that is nearing the end of his career. The raiders gave up a 1st and 2nd (I'll give you that. They won't win a layoff game with Palmer) for a bum qb near the end of his career. Don't say never. That's my point. And what happened to the coach/defacto GM who made that decision? Fired. No GM is in anyway considering any of these ideas because they all value their jobs. Fred stays, you don't get the value for him in picks and frankly they can and should use him in Buffalo. Damn, he was on track to be league MPV until he got hurt. YTF do fans always want to trade our best players? Stupid, way too stupid even for this board.
Buffbills1fan Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Absolutely! If someone is crazy enough to give us a 1st rounder. I'll take a 2nd rounder. That the lowest I would go.
BigBuff423 Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 That's an easy answer....YES!! But do I think you can actually get a 1st Rounder for FJ??? No, I don't....I believe the combination of the way the league has evolved in Offense over the last decade, FJ's age, and the ability to get good RBs in middle rounds, you'd be better served asking the question is FJ worth a 3rd round pick...? And to that, again I would say YES!!! Anything less, and he grants the BILLS a better value and service than letting him go for less, just MO...
Meathead Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 if the swedish bikini team offered to pump you dry would you? oh no i think im fine ill just have to decline second.easiest.question.ever.
NoSaint Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 And what happened to the coach/defacto GM who made that decision? Fired. No GM is in anyway considering any of these ideas because they all value their jobs. Fred stays, you don't get the value for him in picks and frankly they can and should use him in Buffalo. Damn, he was on track to be league MPV until he got hurt. YTF do fans always want to trade our best players? Stupid, way too stupid even for this board. Frankly, I'll back him that no gm makes that trade. A head coach is much more likely to make a desperate short term moved than is a guy charged with long term vision. Jackson as a coach is trained to win Sunday, not in 2014. That's why jackson, as a coach not a gm, had no business in the position to make that call.
HuSeYiN1978 Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 No way, Fred was on target to be league MPV (pre injury), a 1st round pick could bust. Plus putting it all on CJ at this time isn't worth it yet, I think it will be but just not yet. Use them both next year a lot and move away from the 5 wide a bit. Get another TE who is good and copy NE*. The D can be improved with out this move. The running game can be explosive with both these backs. With Fitz throwing on average 6.74 per completion and both of these backs running for more than 5 a carry, it is well worth it to have them both and pass less. No way, Fred was on target to be league MPV (pre injury), a 1st round pick could bust. Plus putting it all on CJ at this time isn't worth it yet, I think it will be but just not yet. Use them both next year a lot and move away from the 5 wide a bit. Get another TE who is good and copy NE*. The D can be improved with out this move. The running game can be explosive with both these backs. With Fitz throwing on average 6.74 per completion and both of these backs running for more than 5 a carry, it is well worth it to have them both and pass less. Felt so good that he hadda say it twice...
Marv's Neighbor Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Don't we always hold out for a solid 4th?
thewildrabbit Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 No. You don't trade a guy that made up most of your offense before his injury Not only that, FJ is as good, if not better then Daryn Sproles who was the total yardage leader this season. Almost UN-replaceable at this point. What other RB that in the history of the Buffalo Bills that they have drafted have been anywhere near as good as FJ. I can only think of one in Thurman Thomas. Spiller might have a bright future with the Bills, but he is nowhere near as good as FJ at this point.
reddogblitz Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 No. Fred is one of the best RBs in the league bar none. To be good you need some dominant players. We haven't had any for a long time. Now we have one, keep him even if he's only got a few years left. There's an old saying. A bird (Fred) in hand is better than 2 (first round draft pick) in the bush. Spiller may be OK but it totally unproven at this point. Even so, on his best day he's nowhere near where Fred is now. Besides you need at least 2 good RBs. Many of the teams still in the playoffs have 3 or more like the Giants and Saints. Let's stop playing for the future and instead play for 2012.
spartacus Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Who needs a solid running back in the league? Hear me out. FJ is 31 coming off an injury, yes great back no doubt but if we could get a 1st rounder for him, would you trade him? If we could lock up the two stud LB's from Bama, isn't it fair to say that CJ and Choice would manage 1200/14 yeard next season? Seems if this scenario played out, the Bills would benefit? Thoughts? Tim- the only team that firmly believes you need to blow 1st round picks on RBs is the Bills (over and over and over) Teams that have a clue can find good RB production in the mid-rounds (Foster, Charles)and from re-cycled free agents (Fred Jackson) The market is close to that 4th rounder the Bills got when traded their last 1st round RB
John Cocktosten Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Sure, let's trade the best player on our team from last year because the Bills are so scary talented that we don't need FJ. BTW, this isn't Madden.
simpleman Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 No Way. Enough with rebuilding for the last 10 years. He is one of the best in the league. We need to win NOW! It might be best in the long run, but we have been sacrificing for the long run forever and where has that gotten us.
Captain Hindsight Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 We don't have enough good players to give them away
CSBill Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 I agree and I agree... no way someone would do that which also means the Bills would be crazy not to if someone would But, it would never happen.
NewEra Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 1326507107[/url]' post='2362767']Clearly this is not true...its true in your opinion because of your personal view of Palmer, but clearly the Raiders felt differently about his longevity than you (or I for that matter as I do share the opinion that he is not worth what they paid). The retirement is not indicative of his shelf life, it was a personal decision not based on age but based on him being sick of playing in Cincy. A 31 year old QB is not over the hill and can still put up 6 to 8 great to good years in todays NFL the way they protect the QB. Its realistic to expect the Raiders could get 5 really good years out of Palmer assuming they could help him regain the form he briefly showed prior to that knee injury. I agree it was a terrible trade, but in terms of age, Palmer has plenty of football left in him for a QB...whether he can play well enough to validate what they gave up to get him is another story. FJ is at about the end of a career in terms of his age based on the position he plays. If Palmer was 37 when they traded for him then you would have point in comparing them...but FJ does not have 5 years of highly productive potential, in fact, no one expects him to be effective for more than a year or two (if even that as he is coming off a broken leg) and he plays one of the easiest positions to replace in football. Plus Palmer plays a position where veteran experience is highly valued and FJ plays a position where youth is much more highly valued than age and experience. So while I see your point that Palmer trade was terrible, it still will never happen with a player like FJ. It just wont happen with a player like FJ nor any other 31 year old RB who has been solid but not spectacular most of his career will ever get traded for a first round pick after breaking his leg (or even without the injury for that matter). I guess that's where we disagree. I think Palmer is a washed up garbage QB that was smart to retire if he was set financially. We agree on one thing....Kobe's BAAAAACCCCK!!!! 1326512192[/url]' post='2362819']Frankly, I'll back him that no gm makes that trade. A head coach is much more likely to make a desperate short term moved than is a guy charged with long term vision. Jackson as a coach is trained to win Sunday, not in 2014. That's why jackson, as a coach not a gm, had no business in the position to make that call. If I were Ted Thompson I'd pull the trigger on that trade in a second. Adding Fred to that offense would really create problems for opposing defenses. As of they don't create enough as it is, Fred would all but lock up another title.
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