Turbosrrgood Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Did you just compare FJ to Manning? LMAO...are you serious? Manning and Palmer play the most important position in all of competitive sports for one. Manning is a HOF QB and once of the best to ever play the game and could play for another 3 or 4 years at an ELITE level easily and could turn a pretender into a contender the instance he walks into the locker room. Palmer was a joke of a trade and one of the worst ever executed...but he also is young enough to where he could play at a high level for 5 more years and was traded for by a coach desperate to keep his job and make the playoffs who knew him. He also just lost his job by the way over this... These scenarios are not even remotely similar. I was responding to exactly this and only this.. Your quote. For you to infer what you said above is incorrect. I never suggested similar scenarios to the FJ question. "NO GM IN ANY SPORT OF ANY LEAGUE ON EARTH would offer a first round draft pick for a player very near the end of his career." I was just providing examples to the contrary. Also in hockey there are trades every year with old players going for 1st round picks so that a team can make a run. The Bruins traded a 1st and 2nd for Kaberle midway through last year at the end of his contract. A player on the way out. All of the players I listed are probably closer to the end of their career than FJ. Of course no one knows when the end of their careers will be so this is all BS anyway. Not getting worked up about it, in fact we are sitting here laughing about this thread. The bottom line is that you dont stop drafting first round picks because you think the FO will screw it up. Thats like folding pocket aces pre flop in texas hold em just because the previous few times you had them the aces got cracked and you lost huge pots. You dont turn down a first round pick for an old player at a position you have a young stud waiting to take over because you are worried the team will screw the draft pick up. Why trade a player that is already good, at the top of his position for a player that may or may not ever be good. That's all I'm saying. Your point is reasonable, but I don't agree personally. Edited January 13, 2012 by Turbosrrgood
PDaDdy Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 I stand by I what I said, you don't have to agree with it. FJ was the best RB in the league when healthy last year, by far the most important part of this Bills team...Trade him for an arbitrary 1st round pick in this years draft? Top ten, ok maybe. But other than that why is that such a sure thing to you? Have you been following the history of Bills 1st round draft picks? Most of them have been complete failures in Buffalo. FJ is a proven top notch back. Seriously though, this is a make believe scenario, It's not an option. Don't get too worked up about it... Yes Spiller and Dareus look pretty damn good. You did mean the CURRENT front offices history of 1st round picks right?
Turbosrrgood Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Yes Spiller and Dareus look pretty damn good. You did mean the CURRENT front offices history of 1st round picks right? Certainly I do like what Nix has done Guys like McKelvin, Maybin, McCargo, Losman, ect... Not so much. Edited January 13, 2012 by Turbosrrgood
Matt in KC Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Would you trade Fred Jackson for Andrew Luck? Of course. Would you trade him for a 4th round pick? I wouldn't. We get much more out of him than most late picks. The question is: where in that range do you value FJ? Age and the injury are significant considerations, and salary a lesser consideration.... I'd trade FJ for anything higher than a mid-second. If I knew Jackson was 100% healthy and would renegotiate his contract for another 4 years in Buffalo at a reasonable salary with playing-time incentives, you'd need to offer around a top 5 pick to get me to give him up. I really think he's a special RB, both in attitude and skills. I don't like considering trading proven talent, and wouldn't for instance trade Kyle Williams for anything short of the overall pick (Luck).
NewEra Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Do you really want me to make a list of all the All Pros, Hall of Famers, and dominant players drafted in the first round? This reply is ridiculous. NO GM IN ANY SPORT OF ANY LEAGUE ON EARTH would offer a first round draft pick for a player very near the end of his career. And there is no way the Bills would even consider saying no with him coming off a broken leg with a young stud waiting behind him to take over...who we also paid a lot of money to and invested a top 10 draft pick in I might add... This is just BAD BAD business...this scenario would mean career suicide and a firing of one the GM's in the trade...either Nix would get fired for saying NO to such a lopsided trade in our favor or the GM who offered us a first round pick for a 31 year old RB coming off a broken leg would get fired for making such a stupid trade. Especially since they could easily find a top RB prospect with a 10 year career ahead of them with that first round pick. Your time would be better spent going out and buying a lottery ticket because your odds of hitting the lottery are greater than any GM in the NFL giving us a first round pick for FJ, and thats NO exaggeration and the odds of that happening are exactly zero. Madden has warped the minds of so many on this board... Um. You're wrong. The raiders just gave up a 1st PLUS a 1st or a second for a qb with injury problems near the end of his career.
auburnbillsbacker Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Teams way over value draft picks. Many times they would rather take a risk on a college player than use the pick for a proven vet.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 I was responding to exactly this and only this.. Your quote. For you to infer what you said above is incorrect. I never suggested similar scenarios to the FJ question. "NO GM IN ANY SPORT OF ANY LEAGUE ON EARTH would offer a first round draft pick for a player very near the end of his career." I was just providing examples to the contrary. Also in hockey there are trades every year with old players going for 1st round picks so that a team can make a run. The Bruins traded a 1st and 2nd for Kaberle midway through last year at the end of his contract. A player on the way out. All of the players I listed are probably closer to the end of their career than FJ. Of course no one knows when the end of their careers will be so this is all BS anyway. Why trade a player that is already good, at the top of his position for a player that may or may not ever be good. That's all I'm saying. Your point is reasonable, but I don't agree personally. Its all good, but I stand by my original statement...I only capitalized to emphasize not yell, so I recognize that it doesnt always come across that way and should clarify better...maybe I should use underlines instead. I dont follow hockey, so my broadening my statement over all sports was probably too general. I should have kept it specific to football and the scenario...so let me update my statement to read: No GM in football will ever part with a first round pick for a 31 year old RB who just broke his leg. RB's are too easily replaced to give up such a bounty for one that has 1 to 2 years left in the tank max. Um. You're wrong. The raiders just gave up a 1st PLUS a 1st or a second for a qb with injury problems near the end of his career. Sorry but you are incorrect...The Raiders gave up a first and second for a 31 year old QB (now 32) who plays a position that in todays NFL you can play to a very high level until late 30's or even to 40. Not even comparable...now you may disagree that Carson can still be a good QB (I also think he sucks and this trade was stupid), but clearly, the Raiders thought otherwise given their connection to him. It also was one of the reason Hue just lost his job... As I said, I agree it was a bad trade, one of the worst IMO as Carson hasnt been worth that since his mid 20's...but the fact remains, if he does get his groove back he could be their QB for the next 6 years easily. And QB is one of, if not the most, important positions in all of competitive team sports. FJ has maybe one or 2 years left in him to be a top RB, and even that is debateable as we dont know how he will come back from the broken leg. And he plays one of the most replaceable positions in football.
Turbosrrgood Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Its all good, but I stand by my original statement...I only capitalized to emphasize not yell, so I recognize that it doesnt always come across that way and should clarify better...maybe I should use underlines instead. I dont follow hockey, so my broadening my statement over all sports was probably too general. I should have kept it specific to football and the scenario...so let me update my statement to read: No GM in football will ever part with a first round pick for a 31 year old RB who just broke his leg. RB's are too easily replaced to give up such a bounty for one that has 1 to 2 years left in the tank max. No worries, I knew how you meant it. Just couldn't help myself with the one line. I do agree with you though. This trade is probably not in the realm of possibility. It was a made up scenario, and all this is moot.
D521646 Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 No worries, I knew how you meant it. Just couldn't help myself with the one line. I do agree with you though. This trade is probably not in the realm of possibility. It was a made up scenario, and all this is moot. Of course it was made up.. It's the off season, we're supposed to talk about these kinds of things.. Anyway, although made up, it isn't completely out of the realm of possibility.. I'm with most, I wouldn't give FJ up for anything less than a mid 1st round pick up in the draft (If that ever presented itself), he's truly worth that much, IMO. Stranger things have happened.. Look at Atlanta? Look what they gave up last year for a WR, Jones?? Woulod they add FJ who is miles better than Turner, especially catching out of the backfield? Is a "candoitall" running back, the bump they need to win the big one? Tim-
White Linen Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 I think there would be some GM's would jump at this. Fred Jackson, at 31, is going to be immediately more productive than any of the other RB's in the draft, and could give you excellent production for at least another 2 years. For example, you think the Saints would rather have Mark Ingram (2011 1st round pick) or Fred Jackson? Me personally, I think it's insane to use a 1st round pick on a RB, because they seem to be a dime a dozen. But I could see a GM going for something like this. (ps: I personally wouldn't trade Jackson away if I were Nix). How can you say it's insane to use a 1st round pick on a RB, but wouldn't trade a RB for a 1st round pick?
Turbosrrgood Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Of course it was made up.. It's the off season, we're supposed to talk about these kinds of things.. Very true...and this thread got me through the rest of my day at work... Edited January 13, 2012 by Turbosrrgood
Alphadawg7 Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Would you trade Fred Jackson for Andrew Luck? Of course. Would you trade him for a 4th round pick? I wouldn't. We get much more out of him than most late picks. The question is: where in that range do you value FJ? Age and the injury are significant considerations, and salary a lesser consideration.... I'd trade FJ for anything higher than a mid-second. If I knew Jackson was 100% healthy and would renegotiate his contract for another 4 years in Buffalo at a reasonable salary with playing-time incentives, you'd need to offer around a top 5 pick to get me to give him up. I really think he's a special RB, both in attitude and skills. I don't like considering trading proven talent, and wouldn't for instance trade Kyle Williams for anything short of the overall pick (Luck). I personally would rather have FJ than trade him for a 5th round pick (about the most we could get from him despite the delusion of most in this thread) as I think he is too valuable to trade for a pick that low. However, I would trade FJ in a hearbeat for a 1st, 2nd, or probably even a 3rd...I wouldnt be thrilled with a 4th, but also would understand if we did. I love FJ, he is one of my favorite players, but you can beat father time and it doesnt help that he has a broken leg to come back from. I also am very high on Spiller and I am of the opinion that Choice can be a capable backup to Spiller. Otherwise I might be less inclined to make the move. For me, it just comes down to the fact we are rebuilding and FJ isnt going to be relevant on this team by the time the team becomes relevant unfortunately. Of course it was made up.. It's the off season, we're supposed to talk about these kinds of things.. Anyway, although made up, it isn't completely out of the realm of possibility.. I'm with most, I wouldn't give FJ up for anything less than a mid 1st round pick up in the draft (If that ever presented itself), he's truly worth that much, IMO. Stranger things have happened.. Look at Atlanta? Look what they gave up last year for a WR, Jones?? Woulod they add FJ who is miles better than Turner, especially catching out of the backfield? Is a "candoitall" running back, the bump they need to win the big one? Tim- Atlanta gave up a lot to move into the top 10 of the draft in order to get a major prospect at a position of need that could be dominant for them for the next 12 years. Not exactly the same scenario...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 How can you say it's insane to use a 1st round pick on a RB, but wouldn't trade a RB for a 1st round pick? Because the Bills could get a 1000 first round picks and would likely blow them all and not get anyone half as good as Jackson.
Formerly Allan in MD Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 No one is going to give you a first round pick for a 31 year old running back coming of the IR list no matter how effective they've been in the past.
BuffaloBillsSD Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 No one is going to give you a first round pick for a 31 year old running back coming of the IR list no matter how effective they've been in the past. We're also trading that first and fitz for Rodgers, WINNING!
Picnic Table F'er Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Yes. But no one would offer such a trade.
TheBrownBear Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 LOL. We would be lucky to get a 4th rounder for him. I love FJAX's attitude and toughness, but he's had one great season - and he couldn't even stay healthy for ten games. He's a 31 year old running back coming off a broken leg. I'd trade him right now if I could get a 2nd rounder for him, maybe even a 3rd.
Bruce Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 I love Fred Jackson, but the RB position in the NFL is not a 1st round draft pick compensatory pick position. I think that he is totally respected in the NFL, but given his age, and his position, there is no way anyone even remotely considers a trade of a 1st rounder for him.
jjmac Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Do you really want me to make a list of all the All Pros, Hall of Famers, and dominant players drafted in the first round? This reply is ridiculous. NO GM IN ANY SPORT OF ANY LEAGUE ON EARTH would offer a first round draft pick for a player very near the end of his career. And there is no way the Bills would even consider saying no with him coming off a broken leg with a young stud waiting behind him to take over...who we also paid a lot of money to and invested a top 10 draft pick in I might add... This is just BAD BAD business...this scenario would mean career suicide and a firing of one the GM's in the trade...either Nix would get fired for saying NO to such a lopsided trade in our favor or the GM who offered us a first round pick for a 31 year old RB coming off a broken leg would get fired for making such a stupid trade. Especially since they could easily find a top RB prospect with a 10 year career ahead of them with that first round pick. Your time would be better spent going out and buying a lottery ticket because your odds of hitting the lottery are greater than any GM in the NFL giving us a first round pick for FJ, and thats NO exaggeration and the odds of that happening are exactly zero. Madden has warped the minds of so many on this board... First, I don't do Madden. Second, if you noticed, all of the names I listed were Bills picks of less than stellar quality. [quote name=PDaDdy' timestamp='13 :blush:26487490' post='2362532] Yes Spiller and Dareus look pretty damn good. You did mean the CURRENT front offices history of 1st round picks right? And a long and proud history its is.
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