Beerball Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Prior to this year Spiller was a rookie. He got better with more playing time. He finished the season being our best offensive player. As far as Rice being a second round pick and Foster an UDRA my response is that Jason Peters was also an UDFA and he became an all-pro player. My point in this extended Spiller discourse is very simple. The Bills used a high draft pick on a player who appears to be an impactful player. Anyone can bring up the name of other draftees and in hindsight claim they could have been better selections. But the bottom line on any pick regardless of the position the player plays is whether that player played up to his draft status. I believe Spiller has. If you go back and review the ugly history of the Bills past drafts there were many atrocious selections. Spiller has (I believe) demonstrated that he can be a not only a very productive player but also a dynamic player for us. In my mind that is the definition of a quality pick. The simplest and best way to assess an individual pick is to judge whether the player played up to his draft status. At the end of the last portion of the season when he got a lot of playing time he was by far our best offensive player on the field. Just to let you know I appreciate your work as a moderator who keeps the topics in order. You think that his accomplishments have justified the pick? Personaly I don't. You also can't IMO look at the pick in a vacuum. We had 2 solid RBs and little else yet we chose a RB with our top pick. That pick was (IMO) and arrogant move by the Bills new FO and coaching staff. They thought that they had a roster that was a silk purse. All it needed was some tweaking, a new attitude, new coaches. Turns out it was a moth eaten sow's ear.
BillsVet Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 I couldn't agree more. Why blame Spiller, then? Chan made him sit for the better part of a year and a half. That's not CJ's fault. If Spiller was good, how did Gailey not know it? His own RB coach has worked for the HC nearly every year since 2002 and I'm pretty sure Nix and Gailey watched plenty of film of Spiller over the last off-season. Spiller didn't get on the field because the HC didn't think he was ready and was OR the the player wasn't really ready and HC was correct. Regardless, it's an indictment of someone in the organization.
Beerball Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 If Spiller was good, how did Gailey not know it? His own RB coach has worked for the HC nearly every year since 2002 and I'm pretty sure Nix and Gailey watched plenty of film of Spiller over the last off-season. Spiller didn't get on the field because the HC didn't think he was ready and was OR the the player wasn't really ready and HC was correct. Regardless, it's an indictment of someone in the organization. Spiller started the first game of his rookie season. After that his time on the field diminished. I think that Gailey wanted very much for him to be successful, electric right off the bat, but he wasn't so he saw less and less of the field. What is good is that he didn't pout. He played hard and his overall game improved including his blocking.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Regardless, it's an indictment of someone in the organization. Well good luck in your investigation. I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it. I'm way more concerned about the Troup and Carrington picks than the Spiller pick.
Ball'n Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 You knew they wanted Spiller before the draft and had him rated as a top 6 prospect, and IMO the drop off from Spiller to the next BPA was too large for them to not take him. If you look at that draft, the top talent was much weaker than most drafts, and because of that I don't think they should be faulted much for the pick. And Beerball, Nix said when he got here that the roster was not very talented, to say they made the pick because they thought they just needed A new attitude and coach and had the talent on the team is naive at best.
BillsVet Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Well good luck in your investigation. I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of it. I'm way more concerned about the Troup and Carrington picks than the Spiller pick. There's no need for an investigation. The drafts from 2006-10 were even worse than the preceding 5 seasons of TD.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 There's no need for an investigation. The drafts from 2006-10 were even worse than the preceding 5 seasons of TD. I know they were BV but I'm restricting my angst to the new regime… so 2010 and 2011.
JohnC Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) You think that his accomplishments have justified the pick? Personaly I don't. You also can't IMO look at the pick in a vacuum. We had 2 solid RBs and little else yet we chose a RB with our top pick. That pick was (IMO) and arrogant move by the Bills new FO and coaching staff. They thought that they had a roster that was a silk purse. All it needed was some tweaking, a new attitude, new coaches. Turns out it was a moth eaten sow's ear. Buddy Nix might not be the smartest person in the room but even he realized that the the Bills were not much better than an expansion caliber team when he took over. It doesn't matter what inane PR comments came out of OBD, anyone who had a clue realized that this was a multi-year rebuild job. Nix got involved in a third rate organization owned by a buffoon aged owner who considers the franchise mostly as a business venture and a lucrative profit center. Coming to such a hollow organization under the thumb of the owner's business advisors was never going to result in a quick turn around. If you expected magic then you are not being realistic. I don't want to come off as a cynic but the Bills will never be a playoff caliber team as long as they are owned by Ralph Wilson. He has created an organizational structure that will not allow it to happen especially when competing against owners who are more serious about winning. The best you are going to get is a more rationally run football operation and a more competitive team. Edited January 15, 2012 by JohnC
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 There's been a few times in the team's history that they've overcome the bungling of Wilson and his cohorts. It seems like we're kind of on the right track and we're certainly due for a few up years considering the last 14 years of futility. Certainly our long-suffering fanbase deserves a few seasons in the sun.
JohnC Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 There's been a few times in the team's history that they've overcome the bungling of Wilson and his cohorts. It seems like we're kind of on the right track and we're certainly due for a few up years considering the last 14 years of futility. Certainly our long-suffering fanbase deserves a few seasons in the sun. Developing into a playoff team is improbable under the Wilson organizational structure. Developing into being a competitive team is realistic.
PDaDdy Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 As others have noted Lynch was not going to be retained for a variety of reasons, mostly having to do with off field behavior. Considering how the Bills have historically evaluated and drafted players I'm not going to be critical of this staff for drafting a top ten talent in the vicinity of where he was ranked. Green Bay and Baltimore have a general policy of sticking to their draft board rankings regardless of position. In the long run it is the right approach to take. In this upcoming draft I won't be critical of Nix if in the first round he drafts an OT over a DE/OLB if he is more highly ranked. The Bills are in a multi-year rebuild project. Drafting the best players rather than stretching for needs is the best approach to take. Sometimes too much attention is paid to the first round selection. Being smart with your second and third round picks is also very important. Great point. We focus too much attention on the first round. Don't get me wrong. That is a hugely important pick but it isn't your only pick to address your issues by any stretch of the imagination. Spiller was pretty much best player available at a position of need with rare speed, quickness and pass catching ability. Some of the same people that helped to run Marshawn out of town are the same people bitching that we spent a 1st round pick to replace him.
PDaDdy Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) This is the same argument made when McGahee was drafted. Or when Lynch was drafted. I don't hear you defending those picks now do I? I didn't say I defended those picks but I basically do. McGahee was a bit of a stretch coming back from the horrific knee injury but apparently Travis Henry was on his way out. When will Bills fans realize that this team has a history of good RBs and we will continue to try to have a talented relatively highly drafted RB on this team. Fans love to run RBs out of town like Henry, McGahee and Lynch. Keep it up and then they'll be drafting another RB in the first. Maybe if we quit our whiny WNY bitching and support some of these guys through their screw ups we won't have to keep restocking the same position. The point isn't which QB they should have drafted. Use your key picks on critical positions in todays game. Positions that are otherwise difficult to fill. QB? LT? Pass rusher? Players who can enhance your passing game or hurt that of the opponent. You saw the list of players they passed on in this thread. Your not getting it. You are speaking academics. This is what I would do if I was GM but you don't ground your conversation in reality with the talent that was on the board and what we or any team would have drafted at the time. It's easy to play captain hindsite and say things like we could have taken Brady in the 1st knowing what he has now become. What if they decide to take Trent Richardson because he is more "highly ranked". I notice nobody answers that question. You do realize that Ralph was talking about getting more runners. There has been talk connecting Richardson and the Bills. At what point does it become stupid to keep going to the RB well John? RB is not only NOT a position of need it is currently a position of great STRENGTH (Fred Jackson's age aside) The only way we get Richardson is if we are already planning on getting rid of Jackson for picks. If the good pass rushers, LTs and QBs are off the board and Richardson is best player available....who knows what happens? It's a very unlikely scenario so it's probably not even worth discussing. Brees has pierre Thomas, sproles, Chris ivory, and still took Ingram(even traded a first AND second to get him). Very much a luxury though. Actually you bring up a great point. Even with Brees the Saints have spent considerable resources on RBs considering Reggie Bush a few years ago. Ingram was their first round pick last year I believe. Nobody is questioning them for taking best player available even if it happens to be a RB when they already had a stable full. The selection of Spiller and subsequent use of the player is why Buffalo is forever rebuilding. How can a RB picked top 10 only get a total of 133 touches in 24 career games before FJ's injury be deemed a good pick for a rebuilding team? Either the player wasn't what they thought he was or the coaches not knowing how to employ him. If personnel identified the guy as being worthy of a top 10 pick, they had to believe he was capable of contributing immediately. Somewhere along the way, Gailey and his staff disagreed and made him a spare part. And now Nix says they always knew he could run between the tackles? If that's so, why couldn't the HC/OC figure a way to deploy both FJ and Spiller while the former was healthy? And why did it take an injury to get him on the field? That or maybe Fred was far and away the fan favorite and was playing like the best RB in the league. How does ANY RB displace that guy? Sadly we got behind too often in games. Not by a huge amount but when that happens Gailey abandons the run. I think if our defense keeps the games more competitive we WILL use them both more. RB's taken in the top 10 should never need 2 seasons to adjust to the NFL. Ever. If that's the case, I seriously question the draft strategy and personnel evaluation of that team. Spiller would not have played much beyond the first 10 weeks had FJ not been injured. And now, the GM declares the guy is as talented as they thought and the HC says he will split carries with a more well-rounded RB in FJ. Coincidence or just the team in defense over a pick that hasn't produced until injuries struck? I'd go with the latter. Dude. It happens Deal with it. If you have first round pick Aaron Rogers sitting on your bench and he is behind Farve is he a bust? Why did it take their first round pick so long to adjust to the NFL? When you are playing behind a legend or a guy playing like the best in the league at their position you ain't getting much playing time. Fred TURNED INTO arguably the best RB in the league this year in Gailey's system. How can anyone fault Spiller for not displacing Jackson? When he did get his shot he showed EVERYBODY wrong. Now people are crying sour grapes and are still trying to hang onto their bold baseless unsubstantiated claims that he was a luxury pick bust. Even the densest headed fans can't call him a bust anymore so they are desperately clinging to the "luxury pick" label to try to save some face. You think that his accomplishments have justified the pick? Personaly I don't. You also can't IMO look at the pick in a vacuum. We had 2 solid RBs and little else yet we chose a RB with our top pick. That pick was (IMO) and arrogant move by the Bills new FO and coaching staff. They thought that they had a roster that was a silk purse. All it needed was some tweaking, a new attitude, new coaches. Turns out it was a moth eaten sow's ear. News flash Lynch's days were numbered due to the caustic environment fans created for him in Buffalo. With all the crap people talked about him I wouldn't be surprised if he asked to be traded. I love that we have Spiller but have freely admitted if we just decided to keep Lynch and went to another position of need we would have been just fine. Sadly Lynch's days were numbered. Edited January 16, 2012 by PDaDdy
smapdi Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Spiller was a great pick. Buddy Nix has gone BPA in the 1st round in both of his drafts (Spiller & Dareus) and it has paid dividends. When you start drafting for need in the first round, you end up with the Maybins, Whitners, McCargos and Losmans of the draft. This team was an absolute mess when Nix took over and it was clearly in need of a total tear down. Some of you have unreal expectations. Jauron and Levy left this team in total shambles and pretty much devoid of talent. Spiller was the best offensive weapon in that draft and this offense was totally devoid of any playmakers at the time. Bulaga was called "soft" in scouting reports and not a true LT. He still hasn't broken thru with GB at LT so there goes that theory. Jason Piere-Paul was viewed as a very risky prospect who wasn't worth the risk in the top 10. A lot of you have very short and selective memories Some of the posts in this thread are comical to say the least. A lot of sour grapes spewed by jaded Bills' fans who hate to be wrong about anything. A lot of people wanted to run Spiller out of town shouting "Bust" from the mountain tops. What did you want him to do getting less then 3 carries a game??? It's a little mind boggling. Spiller has only scratched the surface of his talent. If Gailey didn't abandon him in the 2nd half of some of his starts, just imagine the numbers he would have put up. He also didn't have the luxury of running behind this team's best offensive linemen in Eric Wood. Just look at some of the holes FJax was running through earlier in the season; Spiller would have broken off a few more TDs with those.
Bill from NYC Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 News flash Lynch's days were numbered due to the caustic environment fans created for him in Buffalo. With all the crap people talked about him I wouldn't be surprised if he asked to be traded. I love that we have Spiller but have freely admitted if we just decided to keep Lynch and went to another position of need we would have been just fine. Sadly Lynch's days were numbered. Which fans told him to mow down the girl and take off?
PDaDdy Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Which fans told him to mow down the girl and take off? To be sure none of the fans told him to do it but you already knew that. The young man made some mistakes and we certainly didn't let him forget them did we? So, Lynch's days were numbered and we drafted Spiller to replace him. "Give the people what they want. We hope they get what they deserve." Spiller looks like a dynamic play maker who still has even more upside and certainly has YOUTH over FJ. Are you arguing both sides here? Not sure where you are going with it. Seems like you are saying that Marshawn had to go because of his actions and mistakes, which I am fine with, yet we shouldn't have drafted the best player available to replace him and eventually supplant the then 29 and soon to be 31 year old RB Fred Jackson? With all due respect to Stevie Johnson, when Fred went down Spiller looked like the best player on the field. Kudos to Nix for making the right call and drafting the BPA despite the uneducated fan's chants of "bust" and "luxury pick". Edited January 17, 2012 by PDaDdy
Enemarty Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Spiller was a great pick. Buddy Nix has gone BPA in the 1st round in both of his drafts (Spiller & Dareus) and it has paid dividends. When you start drafting for need in the first round, you end up with the Maybins, Whitners, McCargos and Losmans of the draft. This team was an absolute mess when Nix took over and it was clearly in need of a total tear down. Some of you have unreal expectations. Jauron and Levy left this team in total shambles and pretty much devoid of talent. Spiller was the best offensive weapon in that draft and this offense was totally devoid of any playmakers at the time. Bulaga was called "soft" in scouting reports and not a true LT. He still hasn't broken thru with GB at LT so there goes that theory. Jason Piere-Paul was viewed as a very risky prospect who wasn't worth the risk in the top 10. A lot of you have very short and selective memories Some of the posts in this thread are comical to say the least. A lot of sour grapes spewed by jaded Bills' fans who hate to be wrong about anything. A lot of people wanted to run Spiller out of town shouting "Bust" from the mountain tops. What did you want him to do getting less then 3 carries a game??? It's a little mind boggling. Spiller has only scratched the surface of his talent. If Gailey didn't abandon him in the 2nd half of some of his starts, just imagine the numbers he would have put up. He also didn't have the luxury of running behind this team's best offensive linemen in Eric Wood. Just look at some of the holes FJax was running through earlier in the season; Spiller would have broken off a few more TDs with those. thank you thank you thank you. expresses my thoughts exactly.
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Now, to answer your question: I truly believe Nix did not want Marshawn on this team, and drafted accordingly. I've seen this theory repeated often and don't buy it at all. If they truly were totally committed to trading Lynch, then they may be the worst "salesmen" in the NFL. Effective salesmen aren't called "The Information Black Hole" by the market they are trying to sell. It is a good theory though if you ignore when and how the deal actually was made. The whole thing was like a customer waiting at the counter of a store for someone to come out so he can make a purchase, yelling "Hello!" into the back of the store over and over again, then opening the "Employees Only" door and shouting "I'm taking this! I'll leave 20 bucks on the counter!" and getting a muffled "whatever" back out of the dark.
Bill from NYC Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Are you arguing both sides here? Not sure where you are going with it. Seems like you are saying that Marshawn had to go because of his actions and mistakes, which I am fine with, yet we shouldn't have drafted the best player available to replace him and eventually supplant the then 29 and soon to be 31 year old RB Fred Jackson? With all due respect to Stevie Johnson, when Fred went down Spiller looked like the best player on the field. Kudos to Nix for making the right call and drafting the BPA despite the uneducated fan's chants of "bust" and "luxury pick". My point is simply that it was not neccessary to use a #9 on yet another running back, Lynch or no Lynch. It doesn't matter whether or not Spiller is "good." So are Whitner, McKelvin, MaGahee, and Lynch, but they too were wasted picks. We have absolutely no OLBs on the roster, but we used a #9 on a player who cannot beat out a udfa. Dick Drawn makes the point of the w/l record and he is not to be denied. The rbs and dbs have not won us games, even if they are "good." They are easy to get, unlike QBs, LTs and pass rushers. And btw, imo the best player on the field was Dareus, not Spiller.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 My point is simply that it was not neccessary to use a #9 on yet another running back, Lynch or no Lynch. It doesn't matter whether or not Spiller is "good." So are Whitner, McKelvin, MaGahee, and Lynch, but they too were wasted picks. We have absolutely no OLBs on the roster, but we used a #9 on a player who cannot beat out a udfa. Dick Drawn makes the point of the w/l record and he is not to be denied. The rbs and dbs have not won us games, even if they are "good." They are easy to get, unlike QBs, LTs and pass rushers. And btw, imo the best player on the field was Dareus, not Spiller. What did Peters ever win us? 7 games maybe if he was healthy? For the record, I wanted Bulaga. But is he even better than Pears at this point? GB hardly has a dominant oline and can't run the ball for crap. The Bills have made so many mistakes in the 1st round. Spiller got a chance to show what he can do and he definitely is a player. He is one player on the offense who is a threat to hit a homerun every time. So maybe running back wasn't the biggest need. But after some of our 1st rounders, why are we complaining about a guy who has legit talent? Yuo get enough blue chippers, you will find a way to win games.
dpberr Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Unless you're going to get the DeLorean up to 88mph, what's the point of discussing this draft pick in 2012?
Recommended Posts