The Spiller Pick

[CodeMonkey]

it was the fact that there were so many areas of greater need on the team tat needed to be addressed before adding an additional running back

The whole team was devoid of talent. So, tell me what pick would you have made? And I'm giving you the benefit of hindsight.

Pretty much anything but running back.

[JohnC]

What part of my post did you derive that line of reasoning from?

 

It is true that those teams have not translated huge rushing numbers to the win column.........and It's true that there are many very compelling arguments against EVER drafting a running back in round one. In fact, the evidence is impossible to ignore. But I never said that and that was certainly....ABSOLUTELY not the only point with regard to the merit of the Spiller pick.

 

The Bills drafted a RB in round one 3 times in 7 years.... the third of which(Spiller) was taken while they still had two very talented ones on the roster. Including Marshawn Lynch who is just one year younger than Spiller(24 to 25).

 

Lynch was traded for very little and subsequenlty ran for 1200 yards and 12 TD's this year. But what's more, he was outperformed by Fred Jackson. It's safe to say drafting Spiller with such a very valuable pick was to say the least unnecessary.

 

The Bills also had an otherwise talent-poor roster at the time of drafting Spiller.

 

I know blindly loyal fans can justify anything in their heads, but it was simply not a smart pick.

 

I subscribe to the Belichick theory that you have to be making bad decisions almost all the time to be a bad organization. Belichick proves this with his spotty drafts but sparkling record.

 

But it's almost DIFFICULT to be as bad as the Bills. It requires a degree of irrationality that sets you apart from the pack. You want your new regime to be above that. That's why the pick was particularly disturbing.

 

As many others have noted the Bills had and contnue to have a number of holes on their roster. If Spiller develops into a big play back (as he gives signs of doing) then why so much angst over his pick? The question marks for Nix in Spiller's draft year are Troup and Carrington. If those players develop then Nix had a solid first draft. If the those two defensive players merely become average to below average caliber of players then his first draft was a bust.

 

Not all areas of need are going to be addressed in one draft or two drafts. What this failed franchise desperately needs is for it to make its picks, especially high picks, count. In my view the Spiller pick wasn't a pick that set this franchise back as many portray it out to be. If Spiller becomes a dynamic player that I think he will be then there will be less concern about his selection.

 

Drafting Spiller wasn't my preference. I wanted Nix to trade down and get additional picks. Nix has been very open that it isn't his style to trade down for more picks. His simplistic approach is to pick when your turn comes up. So be it. In my view he took a top ten talent at a top ten draft position. I'm not going to criticize that approach, especially compared to this franchise's history of overdrafting for needs.

Edited January 13, 2012 by JohnC

[PDaDdy]

I gotta be honest. I, as most of you were, was excited about Spiller's potential, but upset that we drafted a seeming luxury pick instead of something of true need. Bills fans knew Freddy Jackson was the real deal, but Gailey was unsure. This regime wanted to draft a playmaker to build their offense around, and ended up finding that in Jackson. Obviously if they had done their homework I think they would have known Freddy was a real running back and the pick for Spiller may have gone towards something different. I suppose my point is, I trust their judgement at this point, and I think they're taking the Bills in the right direction. Very excited to see what they can do with Spiller being more established and Freddy splitting the carries. I see the Bills leading the league in rushing next year, taking a lot of the pressure off of Fitz, something we saw late in the season he doesn't handle very well.

 

Go Bills!

 

I didn't want to believe it myself but knew that Lynch was going to be moved off the team. Although never being found guilty of anything or serving jail time the conservative western NY fans turned into a pitch fork and torch wielding mob trying to run him out of town. Freddy was 29 to start the 2009 season and that is a lot of eggs to put in one basket for the FUTURE of your franchise. I think the front office DID know Fred was that good and that the fans had tired of Lynch.

 

Despite Spiller so far proving everyone COMPLETELY wrong since he was thrust into a starting role due to Fred's injury people keep calling him a luxury pick but have to eat crow on the "bust" label. If you accept that Lynch was getting traded and knew how old Fred was at the time the "luxury pick" label couldn't be any farther from the truth. Spiller, a young RB with rare quickness, flat out speed and pass catching ability, was a huge need.

 

That being said I would have been just fine with keeping Lynch AND Jackson and using the Spiller pick on a defender but the fans had already made that choice. Lynch had to go! It got so bad for Lynch that people started embellishing and making things up like stealing $20 from a cops wife at TGI Fridays or something. Good job fans! We played a role in the Spiller pick because we made a new young RB a necessity after the front office determined that Lynch's days were numbered.

[Maddog69]

Just to clear up a mistake,

 

Bulaga starts at right tackle… the same position Michael Oher starts at in Baltimore.

 

Chad Clifton is the Packers starting left tackle.

Last year he started at LT when Clifton was injurad and was the starting LT for the Packers in the Superbowl.

 

I didn't want to believe it myself but knew that Lynch was going to be moved off the team. Although never being found guilty of anything or serving jail time the conservative western NY fans turned into a pitch fork and torch wielding mob trying to run him out of town. Freddy was 29 to start the 2009 season and that is a lot of eggs to put in one basket for the FUTURE of your franchise. I think the front office DID know Fred was that good and that the fans had tired of Lynch.

 

Despite Spiller so far proving everyone COMPLETELY wrong since he was thrust into a starting role due to Fred's injury people keep calling him a luxury pick but have to eat crow on the "bust" label. If you accept that Lynch was getting traded and knew how old Fred was at the time the "luxury pick" label couldn't be any farther from the truth. Spiller, a young RB with rare quickness, flat out speed and pass catching ability, was a huge need.

 

That being said I would have been just fine with keeping Lynch AND Jackson and using the Spiller pick on a defender but the fans had already made that choice. Lynch had to go! It got so bad for Lynch that people started embellishing and making things up like stealing $20 from a cops wife at TGI Fridays or something. Good job fans! We played a role in the Spiller pick because we made a new young RB a necessity after the front office determined that Lynch's days were numbered.

This is a really good point and one I really hadn't thought of. While I hate the Lynch trade, I can understand how the franchise got to that point.

And Freddy's age does make the Spiller pick make a bit more sense.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Maddog69

[Homey D. Clown]

I said it then and I will repeat.........it was a bad pick regardless of how productive he becomes.

 

 

Dead wrong.

 

Marshawn was and is an average back on his way out, or at the very least one strike away from sitting an entire season. No matter how much people want to bury their heads in the sand, Freddie is north of 30 years old. Past that the team had nothing, and even so hasn't had an elite running back on the team since Thurman left. Spiller has the potential to be a game changing back, the team has not had any players on the team you could say that about, not even close for more than 10 years. If you're a new GM, you pick player that can be explosive, that's what Nix did, yet people still want to criticize him for doing it. Sad really.

 

You can't fault Spiller for having to wait his turn in light of Freddie's amazing play, and when it's his time to play, it's very clear CJ will perform, but for some it doesn't matter how well, they just want to make excuses why the team didn't need him.

[JohnC]

Dead wrong.

 

Marshawn was and is an average back on his way out, or at the very least one strike away from sitting an entire season. No matter how much people want to bury their heads in the sand, Freddie is north of 30 years old. Past that the team had nothing, and even so hasn't had an elite running back on the team since Thurman left. Spiller has the potential to be a game changing back, the team has not had any players on the team you could say that about, not even close for more than 10 years. If you're a new GM, you pick player that can be explosive, that's what Nix did, yet people still want to criticize him for doing it. Sad really.

 

You can't fault Spiller for having to wait his turn in light of Freddie's amazing play, and when it's his time to play, it's very clear CJ will perform, but for some it doesn't matter how well, they just want to make excuses why the team didn't need him.

 

It's almost gotten to the point that many people are reluctant to embrace Spiller as being a very good and possibly a dynamic player because they are so invested in their belief that he shouldn't have been drafted. There is nothing wrong with believing that the Bills should have addressed other needs with that first round pick. But if he turns out to be a very good player (as he seems to have demonstrated) then I don't understand their unwillingness to acknowledge his talent. Over the last third of the season in which he played he was our best offensive player.

[The Big Cat]

It's almost gotten to the point that many people are reluctant to embrace Spiller as being a very good and possibly a dynamic player because they are so invested in their belief that he shouldn't have been drafted. There is nothing wrong with believing that the Bills should have addressed other needs with that first round pick. But if he turns out to be a very good player (as he seems to have demonstrated) then I don't understand their unwillingness to acknowledge his talent. Over the last third of the season in which he played he was our best offensive player.

 

Sad, sad demonstration of hubris, IMO.

 

A truly unfortunate and regrettable station for Bills fans to adopt.

[BADOLBILZ]

It's almost gotten to the point that many people are reluctant to embrace Spiller as being a very good and possibly a dynamic player because they are so invested in their belief that he shouldn't have been drafted. There is nothing wrong with believing that the Bills should have addressed other needs with that first round pick. But if he turns out to be a very good player (as he seems to have demonstrated) then I don't understand their unwillingness to acknowledge his talent. Over the last third of the season in which he played he was our best offensive player.

 

That suits your argument to think that way, but the pick was bad regardless of how Spiller performed. I am not about drafting for need, that's a fools game, but you don't give away a talented guy who you drafted in round 1 two years earlier for some late picks to make room for the next guy. And these weren't late first rounders, we are talking about the 11th pick on Lynch and the 8th on Spiller. I don't even care that Spiller had trouble grasping the playbook, blocking etc.. I like watching Spiller play and followed his progress since his freshman year at Clemson. Talented player. BAD use of the Bills first round pick that year.

 

If you don't think so, are you OK with the Bills using the first round pick this spring on Trent Richardson the RB from Alabama?

 

Because you know Fred Jackson is two years older now than when they drafted Spiller and he IS coming off injury. The cupboard is practically bare! Better yet, deal Jackson for a 6th rounder so you don't feel pressured to give him a raise and........voila......a perfect Buffalo Bills solution.

 

Sad, sad demonstration of hubris, IMO.

 

A truly unfortunate and regrettable station for Bills fans to adopt.

 

If I was as wrong as often as you I would stop thinking for myself. Crayonz is right more often than you.

[BADOLBILZ]

I didn't want to believe it myself but knew that Lynch was going to be moved off the team. Although never being found guilty of anything or serving jail time the conservative western NY fans turned into a pitch fork and torch wielding mob trying to run him out of town. Freddy was 29 to start the 2009 season and that is a lot of eggs to put in one basket for the FUTURE of your franchise. I think the front office DID know Fred was that good and that the fans had tired of Lynch.

 

Despite Spiller so far proving everyone COMPLETELY wrong since he was thrust into a starting role due to Fred's injury people keep calling him a luxury pick but have to eat crow on the "bust" label. If you accept that Lynch was getting traded and knew how old Fred was at the time the "luxury pick" label couldn't be any farther from the truth. Spiller, a young RB with rare quickness, flat out speed and pass catching ability, was a huge need.

 

That being said I would have been just fine with keeping Lynch AND Jackson and using the Spiller pick on a defender but the fans had already made that choice. Lynch had to go! It got so bad for Lynch that people started embellishing and making things up like stealing $20 from a cops wife at TGI Fridays or something. Good job fans! We played a role in the Spiller pick because we made a new young RB a necessity after the front office determined that Lynch's days were numbered.

 

First of all......if you think running back is the FUTURE of your franchise I want to know where the time machine is and who taught you how to use a personal computer? Is the denial of the obvious a coping method for the rigors of time travel?

 

Runnin' bax are two for a penny, and some good teams don't even need a good one. They run guys like James Starks or Benjarvis green ellis or whatever his name is. Woe for the future of those franchises.

 

As for Spiller not being a bust.............well hallelujah........because you know not being a bust made Donte Whitner such a good pick too. Or was he a bust? I can't remember, the losing seasons just run one into the next.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Dick Drawn

[RealityCheck]

Someone needs a Xanax.

[PDaDdy]

First of all......if you think running back is the FUTURE of your franchise I want to know where the time machine is and who taught you how to use a personal computer? Is the denial of the obvious a coping method for the rigors of time travel?

 

Runnin' bax are two for a penny, and some good teams don't even need a good one. They run guys like James Starks or Benjarvis green ellis or whatever his name is. Woe for the future of those franchises.

 

As for Spiller not being a bust.............well hallelujah........because you know not being a bust made Donte Whitner such a good pick too. Or was he a bust? I can't remember, the losing seasons just run one into the next.

 

How about you brush up on your reading comprehension. Please point out where I said the running back IS the future of the franchise! I said getting a RB had to be considered FOR the future of the franchise. Get the difference? So why don't you invent your time machine. Go back in time. Slap yourself in the face and stop yourself from making an embarrassing dumb post.

 

I have no idea what comparing Spiller who looks to possibly be great to Donte Whitner has anything to do with anything. Nice bush league attempt at guilt by association I guess. Looking at Spiller's last 5 games and projecting for the year he would be looking at 2000 yards from scrimmage and 14 TDs combined rushing and receiving. That is not only NOT a bust but ELITE RB performance.

 

Pointing out teams with exceptional, record breaking, hall of fame QBs and using them as examples for not needing a good RB is like pointing to Michael Jordan's Chicago Bulls and saying you don't need a good center to win in the NBA. The exception is not the rule. I don't think anyone is stupid enough to fall for your junk.

 

Chase the Xanax down with a couple shots and take a nap.

Edited January 13, 2012 by PDaDdy

[PDaDdy]

Dead wrong.

 

Marshawn was and is an average back on his way out, or at the very least one strike away from sitting an entire season. No matter how much people want to bury their heads in the sand, Freddie is north of 30 years old. Past that the team had nothing, and even so hasn't had an elite running back on the team since Thurman left. Spiller has the potential to be a game changing back, the team has not had any players on the team you could say that about, not even close for more than 10 years. If you're a new GM, you pick player that can be explosive, that's what Nix did, yet people still want to criticize him for doing it. Sad really.

 

You can't fault Spiller for having to wait his turn in light of Freddie's amazing play, and when it's his time to play, it's very clear CJ will perform, but for some it doesn't matter how well, they just want to make excuses why the team didn't need him.

 

 

I'm with ya on everything except your opinion of Lynch. As usual he is loved by his team mates and is producing at a very high rate now that he has learned the Seattle offense and blocking. He has become an almost weekly highlight and made the phrase "beast mode" a national phenomena. I am very glad we have Spiller but Lynch and Jackson would have been just fine too.

[Dopey]

Pretty much anything but running back.

It's a good thing you don't make the decisions.

[PDaDdy]

It's almost gotten to the point that many people are reluctant to embrace Spiller as being a very good and possibly a dynamic player because they are so invested in their belief that he shouldn't have been drafted. There is nothing wrong with believing that the Bills should have addressed other needs with that first round pick. But if he turns out to be a very good player (as he seems to have demonstrated) then I don't understand their unwillingness to acknowledge his talent. Over the last third of the season in which he played he was our best offensive player.

 

And that was without our best offensive lineman Eric Wood. +1

[BADOLBILZ]

How about you brush up on your reading comprehension. Please point out where I said the running back IS the future of the franchise! I said getting a RB had to be considered FOR the future of the franchise. Get the difference? So why don't you invent your time machine. Go back in time. Slap yourself in the face and stop yourself from making an embarrassing dumb post.

 

I have no idea what comparing Spiller who looks to possibly be great to Donte Whitner has anything to do with anything. Nice bush league attempt at guilt by association I guess. Looking at Spiller's last 5 games and projecting for the year he would be looking at 2000 yards from scrimmage and 14 TDs combined rushing and receiving. That is not only NOT a bust but ELITE RB performance.

 

Pointing out teams with exceptional, record breaking, hall of fame QBs and using them as examples for not needing a good RB is like pointing to Michael Jordan's Chicago Bulls and saying you don't need a good center to win in the NBA. The exception is not the rule. I don't think anyone is stupid enough to fall for your junk.

 

Chase the Xanax down with a couple shots and take a nap.

 

There is not needing a good RB.........and then there is winning a Super Bowl while starting a rookie 6th round pick from the University of Buffalo at RB.

 

Let me know when Chris Johnson or Adrian Peterson wins a Super Bowl with Drew Willy at quarterback and then we can discuss the relative merit of the positions.

[uncle flap]

Spiller will be 25 this season, I'd say it's a reach to expect him to be a starting rb for 10 the next decade......or even the next 8 years if you count his redshirt year and last year.

 

Freddie is bound to decline soon, being over the age of 30. But that being said, if you need a RB, just go out and get one later in the draft.

 

Not a key position in the NFL anymore.

 

Having an elite one doesn't give you a big edge over a team with an average producer.

 

The league is increasingly more about total yards and the scoring that results. A big day passing can produce 500 yards. A big day rushing would be less than half of that.

 

There was a time many years ago when the quality of your running back was critical. That was also a time when it was hard to play QB in the NFL.

 

You could have a top QB and he could still struggle and you could still win. Terry Bradshaw threw 26TD and 25 ints and had a rating of 77.0 in 1979. He was only slightly better the year before. Pittsburgh won back-to-back bowls and Bradshaw went on to the HOF.

 

Those are Ryan Fitzpatrick-esque numbers now. Back then they were acceptable because it was HARD to succeed throwing the ball back then.

 

Now, the situation is reversed. You play to enhance your passing game and stop your opponents. You differentiate by the quality at the QB position now.....not the RB.

 

There are always exceptions but the consistent, repeat winners of the past decade have had elite ability in the passing game. Running game? Meh. Mixed bag, but increasingly less in recent years. And the new rules of the past year only make it even more of a passing league.

 

wtf does terry bradshaw have to do with fred and cj?

 

i agree the RB position is not as important to a team compared to QB. Was there a QB they shouldve drafted there that I missed?

 

my point is that buddy was thinking long term. by that, i assume he said to himself something along these lines, "here i am with the chance to draft an electric player who can score rushing, receiving, and returning. yeah, we've got fred and he's prob got a couple years left. beastmode is outta here. in 4 years when the team that I AM JUST STARTING TO BUILD NOW is coming together, i think i'll have myself a pro bowl game changer."

 

you dont have the chance to draft what looks (looked) like a superstar RB every year. it's a risk worth taking. IMO. which is also the opinion of countless analysts and even a professional GM.

 

i take issue with the idea that RBs are a dime a dozen. think of all the bum RBs you'd absolutely hate to see in a bills jersey.

 

actually, you know what, you're probably right. RBs arent important. trade spiller AND fred. i mean, they can just plug johnny white or tashard choice!

[BADOLBILZ]

wtf does terry bradshaw have to do with fred and cj?

 

i agree the RB position is not as important to a team compared to QB. Was there a QB they shouldve drafted there that I missed?

 

my point is that buddy was thinking long term. by that, i assume he said to himself something along these lines, "here i am with the chance to draft an electric player who can score rushing, receiving, and returning. yeah, we've got fred and he's prob got a couple years left. beastmode is outta here. in 4 years when the team that I AM JUST STARTING TO BUILD NOW is coming together, i think i'll have myself a pro bowl game changer."

 

you dont have the chance to draft what looks (looked) like a superstar RB every year. it's a risk worth taking. IMO. which is also the opinion of countless analysts and even a professional GM.

 

i take issue with the idea that RBs are a dime a dozen. think of all the bum RBs you'd absolutely hate to see in a bills jersey.

 

actually, you know what, you're probably right. RBs arent important. trade spiller AND fred. i mean, they can just plug johnny white or tashard choice!

 

Then why not draft Alabama RB Trent Richardson #1 this year? Because you've already got two, Lamont!

 

RB's don't win you games anymore.

 

Defenses attack the QB and play the run on their way to the QB. If they get gouged.....oh well. Chances are they are going to catch your great back in the backfield for a loss quite often(sound familiar Bills fans)....force you into an unfavorable down and distance......and achieve THEIR objective which is to get turnovers and or at least get their team extra posessions.

 

How much clearer does it gotta' be made. For chrissake, Dan Marino's passing record got passed twice this season and Matthew Stafford only missed it by about 50 yards. It's a passing league son. Wake up.

[JohnC]

That suits your argument to think that way, but the pick was bad regardless of how Spiller performed.

 

When you make the point and stress the point that it doesn't matter how well Spiller performs you would still be against the pick then that is a testament to a stubborn adherence to a preconceived view that will not be altered no matter how well the player performed. That doesn't make sense to me.

 

I remember when Chris Johnson was drafted by the Titans a few years ago. Many people commented that the Titans shouldn't have taken him. He demonstrated on the field that he was a game changer and one of the most dynamic players in the league. Using your logic you would declare him to be a wasted pick because he doesn't fit in with your established view on drafting.

 

My view is simple. If you draft a player and he plays at the level in which he was drafted then it is a good pick. As I stated in prior postings the questions of the draft when Spiller was picked have little to do with him. He has shown that he can be a quality player. The real concern in that particular draft has to do with other players such as Troup and Carrington.

Edited January 14, 2012 by JohnC

[Bruce]

calling Captain Hindsight....

 

Pro Bowl: Maurkice Pouncey, Rob Gronkowski, Jason Pierre-Paul, Earl Thomas, Devin McCourty

 

Solid Starters: Bulaga, Tebow, Demaryius Thomas, Ryan Mathews, Iupati

 

Nice Backup: Spiller

 

Yeah, I like Spiller and all...but I still can't get how we let hometown Gronkowski slip away. Even Pierre-Paul satisfies a much greater need than Spiller.

 

Teams just don't draft a RB that high anymore. You can get tremendous mileage and value with RB's in the later rounds of the draft.

 

I'm not criticizing the pick of Spiller persay, but Pierre-Paul would have been much more cornerstone type of pick and Gronkowski would have helped more with our more immediate needs, as well.

[BADOLBILZ]

[/font]

 

When you make the point and stress the point that it doesn't matter how well Spiller performs you you would still be against the pick then that is a testament to a stubborn adherence to a preconceived view that will not be alterned no matter how well the player performed. That doesn't make sense to me.

 

I remember when Chris Johnson was drafted by the Titans a few years ago. Many people commented that the Titans shouldn't have taken him. He demonstrated on the field that he was a game changer and one of the most dynamic players in the league. Using your logic you would declare him to be a wasted pick because he doesn't fit in with your established view on drafting.

 

My view is simple. If you draft a player and he plays at the level in which he was drafted then it is a good pick. As I stated in prior postings the questions of the draft when Spiller was picked have little to do with him. He has shown that he can be a quality player. The real concern in that particular draft has to do with other players such as Troup and Carrington.

 

They had two very good backs john. I am not a draft for needs guy, but having ONE very talented RB is plenty for a team that projects to 4-12. Or 5-11. Or 6-10. And yes, the KNEW they were going to suck.

 

What the hell do the Bills think they are going to do with all the icing and no cake? (insert youtube video of fatass eating duncan hines out the can)

 

It's laughable strategy and what they have done at the RB position in the last decade is the DEFINITION of insanity. Repeating the same thing and expecting different results. McGahee was a super back at 230# with 4.4 speed. Lynch was the ultimate warrior..... beast mode. Spiller was Marshall Faulk II. The next best thing over and over and over. In a couple years, CJ will be a free agent.......so I'm thinking they better get a jump on that problem pronto.