The Spiller Pick

[PDaDdy]

Then why not draft Alabama RB Trent Richardson #1 this year? Because you've already got two, Lamont!

 

RB's don't win you games anymore.

 

Defenses attack the QB and play the run on their way to the QB. If they get gouged.....oh well. Chances are they are going to catch your great back in the backfield for a loss quite often(sound familiar Bills fans)....force you into an unfavorable down and distance......and achieve THEIR objective which is to get turnovers and or at least get their team extra posessions.

 

How much clearer does it gotta' be made. For chrissake, Dan Marino's passing record got passed twice this season and Matthew Stafford only missed it by about 50 yards. It's a passing league son. Wake up.

 

You are seriously off your meds. There are only a small handful of QBs that can obfuscate the need for a quality RB. You tell me which one we should have drafted and then you MIGHT have a point. OH...nobody that was deemed worthy of the #9 pick in the 2009 draft? Guess it just shoots the hell out your argument doesn't it. While you're at it remember that this team was still dedicated to Trent Deadwards and wasn't looking for a QB.

 

Quit being argumentative. RB's are not a dime a dozen. Rushing will never be taken out of the game. Again you can't make the exception the rule. The majority of teams in the league need a RB because they don't have Manning, Rogers, Brady and Brees.

[JohnC]

They had two very good backs john. I am not a draft for needs guy, but having ONE very talented RB is plenty for a team that projects to 4-12. Or 5-11. Or 6-10. And yes, the KNEW they were going to suck.

 

What the hell do the Bills think they are going to do with all the icing and no cake? (insert youtube video of fatass eating duncan hines out the can)

 

It's laughable strategy and what they have done at the RB position in the last decade is the DEFINITION of insanity. Repeating the same thing and expecting different results. McGahee was a super back at 230# with 4.4 speed. Lynch was the ultimate warrior..... beast mode. Spiller was Marshall Faulk II. The next best thing over and over and over. In a couple years, CJ will be a free agent.......so I'm thinking they better get a jump on that problem pronto.

 

As others have noted Lynch was not going to be retained for a variety of reasons, mostly having to do with off field behavior. Considering how the Bills have historically evaluated and drafted players I'm not going to be critical of this staff for drafting a top ten talent in the vicinity of where he was ranked. Green Bay and Baltimore have a general policy of sticking to their draft board rankings regardless of position. In the long run it is the right approach to take.

 

In this upcoming draft I won't be critical of Nix if in the first round he drafts an OT over a DE/OLB if he is more highly ranked. The Bills are in a multi-year rebuild project. Drafting the best players rather than stretching for needs is the best approach to take. Sometimes too much attention is paid to the first round selection. Being smart with your second and third round picks is also very important.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Last year he started at LT when Clifton was injurad and was the starting LT for the Packers in the Superbowl.

Exactly which backs up my point.

 

Bulaga only started on the left side because of injury. When Clifton was healthy Bulaga went back to the right side. When I've seen Bulaga play he looks more like a right tackle to me… and in fact that's what a lot of the scouting reports said… that he didn't have the skills for the left side.

 

I could still be proven wrong about the guy but regardless of how CJ Spiller turns out (and I'm very optimistic) I'm glad we didn't pick Bulaga.

 

As for Oher, during his second season (last year) they ironically switched him to "the blind side" where he promptly played poorly… a step down from Jared Gaither.

 

Because Oher was not fit to play left tackle the Ravens picked up Bryant McKinnie and moved Oher back to the non-blind side. Like most of us I hated the Maybin pick but regardless I didn't think Oher would have been a good pick… certainly better than Maybin but still not worthy if we had taken him at #10.

 

One truth about the Bills recent drafting regarding franchise quarterbacks and blind side protectors is… that if you go back 5 years, the only way the Bills would have been able to get an elite player at either position would have been to trade up. In the last 5 years by standing pat, they have not had the opportunity to draft players of this caliber.

 

Moreover, very few offensive tackles who have come out in the last 5 years (including those that were taken before the Bills pick) have been great players. Good players yes. Great players no.

 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

You are seriously off your meds. There are only a small handful of QBs that can obfuscate the need for a quality RB. You tell me which one we should have drafted and then you MIGHT have a point. OH...nobody that was deemed worthy of the #9 pick in the 2009 draft? Guess it just shoots the hell out your argument doesn't it. While you're at it remember that this team was still dedicated to Trent Deadwards and wasn't looking for a QB.

 

Quit being argumentative. RB's are not a dime a dozen. Rushing will never be taken out of the game. Again you can't make the exception the rule. The majority of teams in the league need a RB because they don't have Manning, Rogers, Brady and Brees.

 

This is the same argument made when McGahee was drafted. Or when Lynch was drafted. I don't hear you defending those picks now do I?

 

The point isn't which QB they should have drafted. Use your key picks on critical positions in todays game. Positions that are otherwise difficult to fill. QB? LT? Pass rusher? Players who can enhance your passing game or hurt that of the opponent. You saw the list of players they passed on in this thread.

 

In this upcoming draft I won't be critical of Nix if in the first round he drafts an OT over a DE/OLB if he is more highly ranked. The Bills are in a multi-year rebuild project. Drafting the best players rather than stretching for needs is the best approach to take. Sometimes too much attention is paid to the first round selection. Being smart with your second and third round picks is also very important.

 

What if they decide to take Trent Richardson because he is more "highly ranked". I notice nobody answers that question. You do realize that Ralph was talking about getting more runners. There has been talk connecting Richardson and the Bills. At what point does it become stupid to keep going to the RB well John?

[NoSaint]

You are seriously off your meds. There are only a small handful of QBs that can obfuscate the need for a quality RB. You tell me which one we should have drafted and then you MIGHT have a point. OH...nobody that was deemed worthy of the #9 pick in the 2009 draft? Guess it just shoots the hell out your argument doesn't it. While you're at it remember that this team was still dedicated to Trent Deadwards and wasn't looking for a QB.

 

Quit being argumentative. RB's are not a dime a dozen. Rushing will never be taken out of the game. Again you can't make the exception the rule. The majority of teams in the league need a RB because they don't have Manning, Rogers, Brady and Brees.

 

Brees has pierre Thomas, sproles, Chris ivory, and still took Ingram(even traded a first AND second to get him). Very much a luxury though.

Edited January 14, 2012 by NoSaint

[JohnC]

This is the same argument made when McGahee was drafted. Or when Lynch was drafted. I don't hear you defending those picks now do I?

 

The point isn't which QB they should have drafted. Use your key picks on critical positions in todays game. Positions that are otherwise difficult to fill. QB? LT? Pass rusher? Players who can enhance your passing game or hurt that of the opponent. You saw the list of players they passed on in this thread.

 

 

 

What if they decide to take Trent Richardson because he is more "highly ranked". I notice nobody answers that question. You do realize that Ralph was talking about getting more runners. There has been talk connecting Richardson and the Bills. At what point does it become stupid to keep going to the RB well John?

 

The Bills will not draft Richardson under any circumstances. So don't lose sleep worrying about your neurotic fear of repeatingly drafting for the same position. Many teams draft according to their draft board rankings. But it is not taken to a self-defeating point. Do you think that the Pats or Indy would have drafted a more highly rated qb on their draft board with their first pick when they had Peyton and Brady in their prime? Let's get serious here.

 

The Spiller pick was made knowing that Lynch was going to be traded. His fourth round pick turned out to be Hairston, a reasonable return that helped fortify the OL. At this point I don't understand your fixation on the drafting of Spiller. I do understand your qualms about the pick when it was made and after his rookie year. But after his sterling play for the last third of the season your concerns about him should have been calmed. Without a doubt he has demonstrated that he is a big play player on an offense lacking impact players. What is wrong with that?

 

If you want to exhibit ssome skepticism over Nix's first draft it should be over the drafting of Troup and Carrington with his next picks. I'm not saying they will or will not develop into being good players. They might. The jury is still undecided on their status, not on Spiller.

Edited January 14, 2012 by JohnC

[RealityCheck]

The Bills will not draft Richardson under any circumstances. So don't lose sleep worrying about your neurotic fear of repeatingly drafting for the same position. Many teams draft according to their draft board rankings. But it is not taken to a self-deafing point. Do you think that the Pats or Indy would have drafted a more highly rated qb on their draft board with their first pick when they had Peyton and Brady in their prime? Let's get serious here.

 

The Spiller pick was made knowing that Lynch was going to be traded. His fourth round pick turned out to be Hairston, a reasonable return that helped fortify the OL. At this point I don't understand your fixation on the drafting of Spiller. I do understand your qualms about the pick when it was made and after his rookie year. But after his sterling play for the last third of the season your concerns about him should have been calmed. Without a doubt he has demonstrated that he is a big play player on an offense lacking impact players. What is wrong with that?

 

If you want to exhibit ssome skepticism over Nix's first draft it should be over the drafting of Troup and Carrington with his next picks. I'm not saying they will or will not develop into being good players. They might. The jury is still undecided on their status, not on Spiller.

Great points. The thing that really stands out to me about Spiller at the end of the season is that as well as he played, there were still many big plays that he did not make such as drops, holding calls, and then the mysterious not giving him touches in the second half of games. As good as he did, not great but good, he clearly is not close to his ceiling. Some people will obsess about the draft in and of itself and all the BS ins and outs that go into it, but no one ever won a championship in April. If a Championship is the goal, that means that 96% of the teams are technically FAILURES every year. If the past 12 years were all playoff years for this team and we still did not win the big one, guess what, we would be even more frustrated than we are now and screaming for coaching and FO turnover. Look at the 90's, great memories to be sure, but an epic disappointment none the less. As far as Spiller's improvement this year, we have to remember that Fred also took another leap forward in his production. In saying that, our improved run blocking despite the injuries should be given props too.

[BillsVet]

The selection of Spiller and subsequent use of the player is why Buffalo is forever rebuilding. How can a RB picked top 10 only get a total of 133 touches in 24 career games before FJ's injury be deemed a good pick for a rebuilding team? Either the player wasn't what they thought he was or the coaches not knowing how to employ him.

 

If personnel identified the guy as being worthy of a top 10 pick, they had to believe he was capable of contributing immediately. Somewhere along the way, Gailey and his staff disagreed and made him a spare part. And now Nix says they always knew he could run between the tackles? If that's so, why couldn't the HC/OC figure a way to deploy both FJ and Spiller while the former was healthy? And why did it take an injury to get him on the field?

[spartacus]

You are seriously off your meds. There are only a small handful of QBs that can obfuscate the need for a quality RB. You tell me which one we should have drafted and then you MIGHT have a point. OH...nobody that was deemed worthy of the #9 pick in the 2009 draft? Guess it just shoots the hell out your argument doesn't it. While you're at it remember that this team was still dedicated to Trent Deadwards and wasn't looking for a QB.

 

Quit being argumentative. RB's are not a dime a dozen. Rushing will never be taken out of the game. Again you can't make the exception the rule. The majority of teams in the league need a RB because they don't have Manning, Rogers, Brady and Brees.

 

The point is the Bills already had not 1, but 2, pro bowl quality RBs on the team already - with numerous holes everywhere else prevenmting the team from pass blocking and rushing the passer.

 

 

In a league where passing is king, the Bills really do not have a clue and Spiller did nothing to improve the above.

 

hell- he didn't even improve the running game

 

 

[The AntiFin]

There would be way too many people to quote here, so I'll just put it out there.

 

For all of you who say that "running backs don't win games" or are "not important" ... Please answer me these two questions.

 

1). Would Baltimore have made the playoffs this year without Ray Rice?

2). Would Houston have made the playoffs this year without Arian Foster?

 

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this -- the people who claim RB is not important. Please tell me who else of substance EITHER team has on offense. (And don't bother including people who were injured most of the year and did not contribute).

[JohnC]

The selection of Spiller and subsequent use of the player is why Buffalo is forever rebuilding. How can a RB picked top 10 only get a total of 133 touches in 24 career games before FJ's injury be deemed a good pick for a rebuilding team? Either the player wasn't what they thought he was or the coaches not knowing how to employ him.

 

If personnel identified the guy as being worthy of a top 10 pick, they had to believe he was capable of contributing immediately. Somewhere along the way, Gailey and his staff disagreed and made him a spare part. And now Nix says they always knew he could run between the tackles? If that's so, why couldn't the HC/OC figure a way to deploy both FJ and Spiller while the former was healthy? And why did it take an injury to get him on the field?

 

What is so unusual about a highly rated player in the draft taking a couple of years to develop? The concern shouldn't be how did a particular player play in his rookie year, the real issue is did the player you selected at a high round draft position develop into a quality and impactful player. My assessment is that Spiller did demonstrate in his second year that he is capable of making big plays.

 

I'm not going to deny that Gailey held back on using Spiller in his rookie year and a good chunck of his second year. But there is a good reason why Gailey did that. For one, Spiller was learing how to play a more disciplined and decisive type of style required for the pro game, and the other major reason why he was held back was that Jackson was playing at an all pro level. I'm not going to be overly critical of Gailey sticking with Jackson and with what was already working.

 

As I have stated on a number of prior posts I understad the reservations regarding the Spiller pick when he was selected and not overly used his first year and a major portion of his second year. But when Spiller given a sustained opportunity clearly demonstrated that he can play at a high level then the concern about his selection should be mollified.

 

The bottom line is that this front office selected a top ten rated player in the appropriate draft range. In his second season he has demonstrated that he can be a very impactful player. When he got most of his playing time in the last third of the season he was our best offensive player.

 

What more do you want?

[Beerball]

There would be way too many people to quote here, so I'll just put it out there.

 

For all of you who say that "running backs don't win games" or are "not important" ... Please answer me these two questions.

 

1). Would Baltimore have made the playoffs this year without Ray Rice?

2). Would Houston have made the playoffs this year without Arian Foster?

 

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this -- the people who claim RB is not important. Please tell me who else of substance EITHER team has on offense. (And don't bother including people who were injured most of the year and did not contribute).

Spiller is not Rice or Foster. He showed that he is a pretty good rb this year. Prior to that?

 

Rice was a second round pick, Foster UDFA.

 

I'd love to hear your thoughts on taking a RB with your top pick when your team is devoid of talent except at the RB position.

[mob16151]

Exactly which backs up my point.

 

Bulaga only started on the left side because of injury. When Clifton was healthy Bulaga went back to the right side. When I've seen Bulaga play he looks more like a right tackle to me… and in fact that's what a lot of the scouting reports said… that he didn't have the skills for the left side.

 

I could still be proven wrong about the guy but regardless of how CJ Spiller turns out (and I'm very optimistic) I'm glad we didn't pick Bulaga.

 

As for Oher, during his second season (last year) they ironically switched him to "the blind side" where he promptly played poorly… a step down from Jared Gaither.

 

Because Oher was not fit to play left tackle the Ravens picked up Bryant McKinnie and moved Oher back to the non-blind side. Like most of us I hated the Maybin pick but regardless I didn't think Oher would have been a good pick… certainly better than Maybin but still not worthy if we had taken him at #10.

 

One truth about the Bills recent drafting regarding franchise quarterbacks and blind side protectors is… that if you go back 5 years, the only way the Bills would have been able to get an elite player at either position would have been to trade up. In the last 5 years by standing pat, they have not had the opportunity to draft players of this caliber.

 

Moreover, very few offensive tackles who have come out in the last 5 years (including those that were taken before the Bills pick) have been great players. Good players yes. Great players no.

 

 

To further add to this point, theres a reason why the Pack took Derek Sherrod, in the first round this year as well.

[The AntiFin]

Spiller is not Rice or Foster. He showed that he is a pretty good rb this year. Prior to that?

 

Rice was a second round pick, Foster UDFA.

 

I'd love to hear your thoughts on taking a RB with your top pick when your team is devoid of talent except at the RB position.

My, MY, Mr. Moderator. Aren't WE getting defensive?

 

My question was to those who said RBs don't mean much to an offense. It had NOTHING to do with Spiller. And you couldn't answer it.

 

Thank you.

[Beerball]

My, MY, Mr. Moderator. Aren't WE getting defensive?

 

My question was to those who said RBs don't mean much to an offense. It had NOTHING to do with Spiller. And you couldn't answer it.

Thank you.

Defensive? It's my first post in this thread that is about the Spiller pick.

 

Pardon me for thinking that you were on topic.

[The AntiFin]

Defensive? It's my first post in this thread that is about the Spiller pick.

 

Pardon me for thinking that you were on topic.

Then how could you possibly comment? You'd need to see the context of the other posts -- and there are MANY -- to see what I was getting at. Point being, many other posters jumped on the bandwagon stating that RBs do not win championships. I believe that was a direct quote. I was speaking to them. I was not comparing CJ to those two guys.

 

Now, to answer your question: I truly believe Nix did not want Marshawn on this team, and drafted accordingly. His run-ins with the law were the icing on the cake. I remember when so many people last year griped that Best (Detroit) was "bester" than Spiller. He hasn't been healthy enough to prove it.

 

I don't mind the Spiller pick at all, and I think many in this thread will be eating their words after next season. The ONLY player I really wanted in Round 1 of that draft was Rolando McClain. Of course, he wasn't available. I truly believe he would have been our pick had he been on the board.

 

Last year, Spiller wasn't given ANY chance to find his rhythm. This year, he was forced into it -- and he preformed tremendously under a ton of pressure. I think that speaks to his character and poise, as well as his talent. He just needs to get the ball more.

Edited January 14, 2012 by The AntiFin

[Hapless Bills Fan]

As many others have noted the Bills had and contnue to have a number of holes on their roster. If Spiller develops into a big play back (as he gives signs of doing) then why so much angst over his pick? The question marks for Nix in Spiller's draft year are Troup and Carrington. If those players develop then Nix had a solid first draft. If the those two defensive players merely become average to below average caliber of players then his first draft was a bust.

 

Not all areas of need are going to be addressed in one draft or two drafts. What this failed franchise desperately needs is for it to make its picks, especially high picks, count. In my view the Spiller pick wasn't a pick that set this franchise back as many portray it out to be. If Spiller becomes a dynamic player that I think he will be then there will be less concern about his selection.

 

Drafting Spiller wasn't my preference. I wanted Nix to trade down and get additional picks. Nix has been very open that it isn't his style to trade down for more picks. His simplistic approach is to pick when your turn comes up. So be it. In my view he took a top ten talent at a top ten draft position. I'm not going to criticize that approach, especially compared to this franchise's history of overdrafting for needs.

 

This. Spiller in the first round doesn't bother me nearly as much as the rest of the 2010 draft. I would have preferred a DL or an OL, but Spiller was legitimately regarded as a top talent. It wasn't a reach, or drafting an RB with the intent to make him a TE or some crazy sh** like that. It's the rest of the draft, or at least the first five rounds. At least 3 of the players taken in the first 4 rounds MUST be players who can come in and contribute, if not immediately, by their 2nd year. We are 1 for 4 on contributing players (not much from Troup or Carrington and nothing from Easley.) We ID'd offensive tackle as a position of need before the draft, and the tackles we drafted in 2010, we've outright cut.

 

I'd be more upset about it if I didn't see a pronounced turn around in the 2011 draft, where every single one of the players taken in the first four rounds has seen the field and contributed, with grades varied from "solid with potential to dominate" to "very promising".

 

What I suspect is that when Nix and Chan were hired in 2010, they pretty much had to work with the existing draft board drawn up by Modrak and his staff. The result pretty much sealed Modrak's fate, but not before the 2011 draft evaluation was well underway (which is why 2011 pulled heavily from Chan's Senior Bowl coaching).

 

The real litmus test will be the quality of the draft from this year on....

[JohnC]

Spiller is not Rice or Foster. He showed that he is a pretty good rb this year. Prior to that?

 

Rice was a second round pick, Foster UDFA.

 

I'd love to hear your thoughts on taking a RB with your top pick when your team is devoid of talent except at the RB position.

 

Prior to this year Spiller was a rookie. He got better with more playing time. He finished the season being our best offensive player. As far as Rice being a second round pick and Foster an UDRA my response is that Jason Peters was also an UDFA and he became an all-pro player. My point in this extended Spiller discourse is very simple. The Bills used a high draft pick on a player who appears to be an impactful player. Anyone can bring up the name of other draftees and in hindsight claim they could have been better selections. But the bottom line on any pick regardless of the position the player plays is whether that player played up to his draft status. I believe Spiller has.

 

If you go back and review the ugly history of the Bills past drafts there were many atrocious selections. Spiller has (I believe) demonstrated that he can be a not only a very productive player but also a dynamic player for us. In my mind that is the definition of a quality pick. The simplest and best way to assess an individual pick is to judge whether the player played up to his draft status. At the end of the last portion of the season when he got a lot of playing time he was by far our best offensive player on the field.

 

Just to let you know I appreciate your work as a moderator who keeps the topics in order.

Edited January 14, 2012 by JohnC

[BillsVet]

What is so unusual about a highly rated player in the draft taking a couple of years to develop? The concern shouldn't be how did a particular player play in his rookie year, the real issue is did the player you selected at a high round draft position develop into a quality and impactful player. My assessment is that Spiller did demonstrate in his second year that he is capable of making big plays.

 

I'm not going to deny that Gailey held back on using Spiller in his rookie year and a good chunck of his second year. But there is a good reason why Gailey did that. For one, Spiller was learing how to play a more disciplined and decisive type of style required for the pro game, and the other major reason why he was held back was that Jackson was playing at an all pro level. I'm not going to be overly critical of Gailey sticking with Jackson and with what was already working.

 

As I have stated on a number of prior posts I understad the reservations regarding the Spiller pick when he was selected and not overly used his first year and a major portion of his second year. But when Spiller given a sustained opportunity clearly demonstrated that he can play at a high level then the concern about his selection should be mollified.

 

The bottom line is that this front office selected a top ten rated player in the appropriate draft range. In his second season he has demonstrated that he can be a very impactful player. When he got most of his playing time in the last third of the season he was our best offensive player.

 

What more do you want?

 

RB's taken in the top 10 should never need 2 seasons to adjust to the NFL. Ever. If that's the case, I seriously question the draft strategy and personnel evaluation of that team.

 

Spiller would not have played much beyond the first 10 weeks had FJ not been injured. And now, the GM declares the guy is as talented as they thought and the HC says he will split carries with a more well-rounded RB in FJ. Coincidence or just the team in defense over a pick that hasn't produced until injuries struck? I'd go with the latter.

[The AntiFin]

RB's taken in the top 10 should never need 2 seasons to adjust to the NFL. Ever. If that's the case, I seriously question the draft strategy and personnel evaluation of that team.

I couldn't agree more. Why blame Spiller, then? Chan made him sit for the better part of a year and a half. That's not CJ's fault.

 

Spiller would not have played much beyond the first 10 weeks had FJ not been injured.

Coach's decision.

 

And now, the GM declares the guy is as talented as they thought and the HC says he will split carries with a more well-rounded RB in FJ.

Amazing what some REAL play time and experience can do for a talented running back, huh?