Bob in STL Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 On every play, you have the Head Linesman and the Line Judge standing on the line of scrimmage pre-snap. I've seen Illegal Formation called in numerous critical situations and I don't like the suggestion (by Perreira) that the rule is arbitrarily enforced. It shouldn't be a rule that is sometimes enforced… the rule is very simple… 7 guys on the line of scrimmage. Agree. Not hard to do. If this was against the Pats* there would have been a flag.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 By strict interpretation, the LT is not on the line either ... That wouldn't ever get called It looks like the left tackle's helmet IS a bit behind the center's belt line. That is what I mean by a grey area. But the tight end? He's not even close.
Thoner7 Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) The rule is very loose in defining what is and isnt on the LOS. If you ask me, the TE, LT and LG are all not on the LOS. A High School ref may have agreed. As for the TE, which that writer points out, isn't any further back than the LT is. It may appear that way looking at their helmets, but if you look at their feet, they are all in line, which is how the rule is defined (for specalty players, aka the TE being in a 3 point stance or standing up doesnt move him from on the LOS from off the LOS) In short, nothing to see here, jsut a hack sports writer trying to make a name for himself, move along. Edited January 12, 2012 by Thoner7
BuffaloBillsForever Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 So you know the meaning of vitriol, yet you take my thread to be vitriolic? I'm sorry I don't worship Tim Tebow, or believe his victories are by divine intervention. But for this reason you color my intent as hostile? Not a word critical of Tebow. Not a critical word toward anyone! And you create controversy and invent hostility where none exists. I thought with our history of disappointments in Buffalo we would feel sympathy for Steeler fans. All I did is post a story about a possibly blown call, and you turn it into a personal attack. I'm speechless but not surprised. After all that's how you play the victim card. PTR I'm not a Tebow lover or hater. I just try to understand football. The title of your thread shows your bias. Your bitter that you are wrong about the outcome of the game. Out of all the blown or missed calls this year by the refs (the Bills or otherwise) to claim foul on this is most lame. It is really the most insignificant of all the questionable referring in that game.
Garranimal Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 This entire thread is devoted to the call… thus the topic title. So no, I'm not harping on anything. I'm discussing it with people who disagree with me. As for your question, one distinction (and now I'm repeating myself) is that there are grey areas with most calls but if you look at the rule and you look at the photo, this was not in a grey area. It was a missed call that should have been called. As for Aiello's statement, I don't know. You'd have to ask him. But if you read the rule posted upthread and look at the photo linked upthread, it was clearly an illegal formation. edit: And to repeat myself again, with a Head Linesman and a Line Judge standing on the line of scrimmage on every play, an obvious violation like this shouldn't be overlooked. It's not like holding or that sort of penalty… it's more along the lines of Too Many Men on the Field. well, since you are so bent about this.....it only matters if you go through every play by both teams and verify that every play but that one was officiated correctly with regards to this rule. make sure to ignore all of the other missed calls or mystery calls.
pkwwjd Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 This entire thread is devoted to the call… thus the topic title. So no, I'm not harping on anything. I'm discussing it with people who disagree with me. As for your question, one distinction (and now I'm repeating myself) is that there are grey areas with most calls but if you look at the rule and you look at the photo, this was not in a grey area. It was a missed call that should have been called. As for Aiello's statement, I don't know. You'd have to ask him. But if you read the rule posted upthread and look at the photo linked upthread, it was clearly an illegal formation. edit: And to repeat myself again, with a Head Linesman and a Line Judge standing on the line of scrimmage on every play, an obvious violation like this shouldn't be overlooked. It's not like holding or that sort of penalty… it's more along the lines of Too Many Men on the Field. Except that too many men on the field is one of the very few reviewable penalties ...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 well, since you are so bent about this.....it only matters if you go through every play by both teams and verify that every play but that one was officiated correctly with regards to this rule. make sure to ignore all of the other missed calls or mystery calls. Why do you think I'm bent? (I'm not btw) There's a difference between advocating for one's point of view and being bent. If I was indifferent to the discussion I wouldn't bother to comment. As to your second point, is it your experience that blown calls or blown non-calls are typically discussed in the greater context of the entire game? If you want to be honest with yourself and others you would admit that that is rarely the case. Blown calls (or blown non-calls) typically stand out on their own… unless all the calls in a game went against one team.
Lurker Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 no big thing. On appropriate review in critical games of the season we would find innumberable holding penalties, pass interferences, unsportsmanlike conducts to call back all sorts of things on the day after. It is what it is, and if the ref didn't see it...that's the breaks. Agreed. You could review almost every play after a game and find some kind of subjective penalty. Whether or not the TE's a foot behind the LOS, it didn't effect the play, so bubkis on the second guessing... wow, i would reply but your response is actually frightening in it's tone of persecution and religion ... Put a sock in it...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 The rule is very loose in defining what is and isnt on the LOS. If you ask me, the TE, LT and LG are all not on the LOS. A High School ref may have agreed. As for the TE, which that writer points out, isn't any further back than the LT is. It may appear that way looking at their helmets, but if you look at their feet, they are all in line, which is how the rule is defined (for specalty players, aka the TE being in a 3 point stance or standing up doesnt move him from on the LOS from off the LOS) In short, nothing to see here, jsut a hack sports writer trying to make a name for himself, move along. You can certainly dismiss it. The league felt sufficiently concerned about the issue to officially comment on it so I don't think it's quite as simple as you say. Regardless, why have rules like this (procedural rules) which clearly state requirements for play if they are only arbitrarily enforced? Shouldn't there be some officiating mechanism which monitors how many men are on the field and whether they are lined up correctly when a play starts? Agreed. You could review almost every play after a game and find some kind of subjective penalty. Whether or not the TE's a foot behind the LOS, it didn't effect the play, so bubkis on the second guessing... As was already stated, it's not a matter if the infraction affected the play one way or another. That was never the issue here. It's the arbitrary enforcement of a rule which is the issue I have. Why have a rule like Illegal Formation if it can be called occasionally but not always? So we can call it on one team but not another? And again, this missed call was not subjective as you put it. The tight end was clearly, objectively not on the line of scrimmage. The OTs and other linemen… that would be subjective.
Billsinfla Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 This thread should be about how badly Fitzpatrick would have overthrown the pass on that play.
T master Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 It looks like that entire side of the lone was going back from the LOS . If you were to put a ruler from the LG to the WR you can clearly see that all of them must have been thinking they were lining up straight when in fact it was crooked . I think it was a good none call !!! But it will like the Music City Miracle give the Steeler fans something to complain about & debate for years to come !!!
Lurker Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Shouldn't there be some officiating mechanism which monitors how many men are on the field and whether they are lined up correctly when a play starts? No way. Human falibility is part of the game (let me repeat that, GAME) and the push to increasingly make the NFL a version of Madden without the joystick is a drag...
Thoner7 Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 This thread should be about how badly Fitzpatrick would have overthrown the pass on that play. hahaha I think you mean underthrown the pass which resulted in a INT to lose the game.
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 hahaha I think you mean underthrown the pass which resulted in a INT to lose the game. Or about how Stevie would have dropped the pass. [it had to be said. ]
Garranimal Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 You can certainly dismiss it. The league felt sufficiently concerned about the issue to officially comment on it so I don't think it's quite as simple as you say. Regardless, why have rules like this (procedural rules) which clearly state requirements for play if they are only arbitrarily enforced? Shouldn't there be some officiating mechanism which monitors how many men are on the field and whether they are lined up correctly when a play starts? As was already stated, it's not a matter if the infraction affected the play one way or another. That was never the issue here. It's the arbitrary enforcement of a rule which is the issue I have. Why have a rule like Illegal Formation if it can be called occasionally but not always? So we can call it on one team but not another? And again, this missed call was not subjective as you put it. The tight end was clearly, objectively not on the line of scrimmage. The OTs and other linemen… that would be subjective. Good god....bent, concerned....whatever....you are certainly a champion for this particular penalty on this particular play. The problem I see is that you think it is arbitrarily called, but the issue is that you get to review the play from several camera angles. it isn't an arbitrary call, its a judgement in part as well as simply a factor of conscious recognition of the problem while a human being is also trying to detect several other pre-snap/at the moment of the snap/and post snap possible fouls. As someone else said, this wasn't a "give it to them" moment, it was judged, by those officials on the field to be a legal formation based on their judgement. Only there is evidence (by reviewing all of the plays) that every other instance they used a different set of judgement parameters, it is simply a case of the play being subject to human judgement. That part of the game will NEVER be eliminated. And hey Lurker....bl*w me.
tennesseeboy Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 I suspect that "penalty" was one of many in the course of that game that the refs missed. Missed calls and bad calls (the Magic City Miracle) are part of the game and there isn't much use in pointing them out after the game is over. I'm sure the refs will be watching for it in the New England game, though.
ARMchairgm Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 what about the backwards pass the refs blew dead? denver got the worst of the officiating...
Direhard Fan Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Refs are bad this year. I'm still upset over Buffalo being called for throwing the quarterback to the ground against NE after the interception. Brady was a tackler at that point and he wasn't thrown. Even the anouncers were amazed. Protect and serve is the refs crede. Bull! Let them play. Babys stay home.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Good god....bent, concerned....whatever....you are certainly a champion for this particular penalty on this particular play. Don't get bent dude.
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