1B4IDie Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Anyone with an abject prejudice against DB's really needs to take off the Dick Jauron tinfoil helmet. McGee, probably gone. McKelvin, certainly not our 1 or 2. Florence, needs to be upgraded. Rodgers, 7th rd pick, looked good, but hardly vetted enough to be a first day 1 or 2. Aaron Williams, of the bunch probably the only one I personally feel comfortable with lining up as a 1 or 2 CB. So anyone who would be "furious" with a CB or a DB of any kind (we have a converted WR starting at SS) really needs to take the blinders off, and understand what we have on our roster, and forget about what regimes of old have done. OT, WR or CB will most likely be our number one pick. Anyone holding their breath for that pass rushing golden boy (at this stage in scouting, etc) is bounding down the tracks aboard a runaway asphyxiation train. Just not with the first pick sjb--thats all I ask. Not on this team. THE problem is this team needs a CB in a major way. THIS year's draft is weak when it comes to top tier pass rushers. Last year in the 3rd and 4th rounds there were arguably better than some 2012 first round picks like Dontay Moch and Sam Acho (whose brother is. Available and we should draft.) If Blackmon, Reid, Kalil are gone. Its going to be Dre Kirkpatrick So just understand that now in January. The Bills will have two good corners with a healthy Kirkpatrick and Williams and not much else at CB. ALSHON JEFFREY could be an option there too but its shaping up that DB is a realistic possibility and #10. the odds are pretty short that this will happen. Edited January 12, 2012 by Why So Serious?
Ramius Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 it seems just to be frustration from all the high picks used on DBs from the past few years. Problem is that those DBs didn't pan out. I agree with you. If there is one worth taking, I am all for it. And yet, the number of Bills "high" picks on DBs are right in line with the league average. people let their anger about taking Whitner over Ngata cloud their vision on what really happened in the draft. For example, starting with 2006, we've spent more 1st rounders on the DL (3) than the secondary (2).
The Big Cat Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Just not with the first pick sjb--thats all I ask. Not on this team. But this is the kind of tunnel vision I'm talking about. This regime (if you count 2009 as part of the Nix-era) has used "high" picks so far on Byrd and Williams. The OLD regime used "high" picks on McKelvin, Whitner and (if 3rd rounders are considered "high") Youboty. It's an area of need and so far the new regime has a tremendous DB hit rate compared to the drafts of yore. I understand being disappointed by not getting the player/position you wanted, but to isolate a position of loathing based on an arbitrary bias ingrained from a bunch yahoos who have since been set free by this organization is self-flagellation!
purple haze Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Dre Kirkpatrick CB Alabama. He does not look NFL ready to me. Kind of a thin lanky body. He did not tackle well against LSU. He had a great play on Special teams during the championship game but he looks like a guy who would spend his first two seasons on IR to me. I do think he will be a very goood nfl player .. Someday. How many 'Bama games have you watched? Kirkpatrick is a stud and very well might be drafted before the Bills pick. Don't analyze based on one game.
bourbonboy Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) CB in the 1st round would be a HUGE mistake. The Bills have serviceable CB's, and can add depth through later draft picks. But answer me this - which would make the largest improvement in the performance of the secondary - a stud CB or a stud pass rusher? It's the pass rusher, hands down - improves the ENTIRE secondary, not just one position. And the Bills won't get a decent pass rusher if they don't take one in the first round - it's not a deep draft. If we can develop a psss rush through the draft and free agency, and (finally!) DC improvement, the secondary will be just fine without a 1st rounder or big money free agent. Edited January 12, 2012 by bourbonboy
1B4IDie Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 CB in the 1st round would be a HUGE mistake. The Bills have serviceable CB's, and can add depth through later draft picks. But answer me this - which would make the largest improvement in the performance of the secondary - a stud CB or a stud pass rusher? It's the pass rusher, hands down - improves the ENTIRE secondary, not just one position. And the Bills won't get a decent pass rusher if they don't take one in the first round - it's not a deep draft. If we can develop a psss rush through the draft and free agency, and (finally!) DC improvement, the secondary will be just fine without a 1st rounder or big money free agent. Who then? Upshaw? Coples? Both of them are not top talent, freak of nature Pass rushers that you would want to take with the #10 overall pick. Upshaw will be a great backer, but I don't see him as a QB slaying pass rushing specialist.
dpberr Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 I would be very disappointed with a pick that doesn't address the pass rush. I want that not only fixed but an asset that opposing teams must plan for during the 2012 season. I'd be outraged with a QB pick in the first round. I think that would be a ridiculous waste.
Ramius Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 CB in the 1st round would be a HUGE mistake. The Bills have serviceable CB's, and can add depth through later draft picks. But answer me this - which would make the largest improvement in the performance of the secondary - a stud CB or a stud pass rusher? It's the pass rusher, hands down - improves the ENTIRE secondary, not just one position. And the Bills won't get a decent pass rusher if they don't take one in the first round - it's not a deep draft. If we can develop a psss rush through the draft and free agency, and (finally!) DC improvement, the secondary will be just fine without a 1st rounder or big money free agent. On the flip side, a shutdown CB can give the DL another second or 2 to get to the passer. A good pass rusher or a good CB will both benefit our D, so i'm fine with it if they go in that direction.
Mr. WEO Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Who then? Upshaw? Coples? Both of them are not top talent, freak of nature Pass rushers that you would want to take with the #10 overall pick. Upshaw will be a great backer, but I don't see him as a QB slaying pass rushing specialist. So take him as a great backer--we don't currently have one of those. What great WR will be there at 10? And what LT drafted in the top 10 has had any significant impact on his team's success in the last 5 years?
apuszczalowski Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Whichever player the Bills pick, that always seems to be the guy no fans wanted
bourbonboy Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Who then? Upshaw? Coples? Both of them are not top talent, freak of nature Pass rushers that you would want to take with the #10 overall pick. Upshaw will be a great backer, but I don't see him as a QB slaying pass rushing specialist. Freak of nature pass rushers don't last until the 10th pick anyway. So it's the best player available at #10, and if there's not a single standout, you add need-based consideration. I don't think Upshaw is a reach at #10, like him a little better than Coples or Mercilus, and he'd be a great addition to our D. Not a freak, but I'd be real happy with an all-around relentless high-motor type of guy at a real position of need. The only way CB makes sense to me is if OBD thinks the guy is the second coming of Revis....and those freaks also don't often fall to #10.
The Big Cat Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 I would be very disappointed with a pick that doesn't address the pass rush. I want that not only fixed but an asset that opposing teams must plan for during the 2012 season. I'd be outraged with a QB pick in the first round. I think that would be a ridiculous waste. Look, having a high pick doesn't mean you get more Madden attribute points to construct the player you need/want. If it's not there, it's not there. And by most accounts "pass rusher" aint gonna be there. Not because there's some super-star stud who'll get gobbled up before we draft, but because this draft, unlike last year's, is quite short on "pass rushers." Also, a "pass rush" isn't a one-man operation. It's based on a whole lot of other factors that must be in place before any rookie pass rusher can even hope to make an impact. You think the Giants have a great pass rush because they continually draft guys like JPP? May be. But JPP was put in a position to succeed. He's playing with a great pass rushing TEAM who runs great pass rushing SCHEMES. You think he'd be as effective playing for the Bills? Conversely, how do you think a beast like Carrigan would look in a GMen jersey?? Right now the Bills have neither team nor scheme that would allow a rookie to come in and make a huge impact. Unless, of course, there's a BSmith-like rookie in this year's draft, but that simply isn't the case. So for everyone who thinks the quick fix must, should or WOULD, come with the 10th pick and to grab any other position would be tactical suicide, I'm sorry to say, but you're flat out wrong. Freak of nature pass rushers don't last until the 10th pick anyway. So it's the best player available at #10, and if there's not a single standout, you add need-based consideration. I don't think Upshaw is a reach at #10, like him a little better than Coples or Mercilus, and he'd be a great addition to our D. Not a freak, but I'd be real happy with an all-around relentless high-motor type of guy at a real position of need. The only way CB makes sense to me is if OBD thinks the guy is the second coming of Revis....and those freaks also don't often fall to #10. Exactly. Revis didn't make it past 14.
1B4IDie Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) CB in the 1st round would be a HUGE mistake. The Bills have serviceable CB's, and can add depth through later draft picks. But answer me this - which would make the largest improvement in the performance of the secondary - a stud CB or a stud pass rusher? It's the pass rusher, hands down - improves the ENTIRE secondary, not just one position. And the Bills won't get a decent pass rusher if they don't take one in the first round - it's not a deep draft. If we can develop a psss rush through the draft and free agency, and (finally!) DC improvement, the secondary will be just fine without a 1st rounder or big money free agent. Who then? Upshaw? Coples? Both of them are not top talent, freak of nature Pass rushers that you would want to take with the #10 overall pick. Upshaw will be a great backer, but I don't see him as a QB slaying pass rushing specialist. Freak of nature pass rushers don't last until the 10th pick anyway. So it's the best player available at #10, and if there's not a single standout, you add need-based consideration. I don't think Upshaw is a reach at #10, like him a little better than Coples or Mercilus, and he'd be a great addition to our D. Not a freak, but I'd be real happy with an all-around relentless high-motor type of guy at a real position of need. The only way CB makes sense to me is if OBD thinks the guy is the second coming of Revis....and those freaks also don't often fall to #10. Upshaw is the safest pick, and I'd be A-OK if the Bills took Upshaw. The problem is most fans are going to expect the QB Killer, 10 sack pass rusher and he likely won't be that type of player. Which will lead imbecilic Bills "fans" to call him a bust. Even if he ends being a great every down LB. Edited January 12, 2012 by Why So Serious?
bourbonboy Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Exactly. Revis didn't make it past 14. Touché - but that's only because there were even better can't miss studs like Jamarcus Russell in front of him! Dre Kirkpatrick is generally considered the highest rated CB in this year's class, but Dre is a zone corner, and is no Revis. There is no CB in the draft that I would rather have than Upshaw.
greenmohawk Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 WR Michael Floyd always looked liked the best player on the field during Notre Dame games. He fits perfect in the Bills passing game . He catches, he blocks and runs routes. I think he should be our #1 draft pick.
The Big Cat Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 WR Michael Floyd always looked liked the best player on the field during Notre Dame games. He fits perfect in the Bills passing game . He catches, he blocks and runs routes. I think he should be our #1 draft pick. Whoa boy. You might get some brushback for this one. Frankly, I don't watch enough CFB to say one way or another. Did you watch a lot of ND games?
1B4IDie Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Whoa boy. You might get some brushback for this one. Frankly, I don't watch enough CFB to say one way or another. Did you watch a lot of ND games? I think Greenmohawk was a big Claussen guy and a ND homer if I remember correctly. I may be wrong though. During the (silly) Claussen is the most "NFL ready" QB discussions. However Greenmohawk is not far off. I like MIchael Floyd a lot. I was hoping he would go to the Supplemental draft and the Bills spend a 3rd or 4th on him after the DUI. Dude is a stud and would look great opposite Stevie Johnson. Or what would happen is Stevie Johnson would be opposite Michael Floyd. Edited January 12, 2012 by Why So Serious?
greenmohawk Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 I think Greenmohawk was a big Claussen guy and a ND homer if I remember correctly. I may be wrong though. During the (silly) Claussen is the most "NFL ready" QB discussions. However Greenmohawk is not far off. I like MIchael Floyd a lot. I was hoping he would go to the Supplemental draft and the Bills spend a 3rd or 4th on him after the DUI. Dude is a stud and would look great opposite Stevie Johnson. Or what would happen is Stevie Johnson would be opposite Michael Floyd. Yeah i liked Clausen. Maybe in a different enviroment. Gotta love the offseason at twobillsdrive.
BADOLBILZ Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Anyone with an abject prejudice against DB's really needs to take off the Dick Jauron tinfoil helmet. McGee, probably gone. McKelvin, certainly not our 1 or 2. Florence, needs to be upgraded. Rodgers, 7th rd pick, looked good, but hardly vetted enough to be a first day 1 or 2. Aaron Williams, of the bunch probably the only one I personally feel comfortable with lining up as a 1 or 2 CB. So anyone who would be "furious" with a CB or a DB of any kind (we have a converted WR starting at SS) really needs to take the blinders off, and understand what we have on our roster, and forget about what regimes of old have done. OT, WR or CB will most likely be our number one pick. Anyone holding their breath for that pass rushing golden boy (at this stage in scouting, etc) is bounding down the tracks aboard a runaway asphyxiation train. I have to agree with Nix and therefore disagree with you about the CB's. The talent at CB is fine and depth is above average. Try comparing the Bills CB talent to other teams around the league. Then tell me how the Bills stack up in the front 7? Or QB? Or WR? I am not part of the needy-needy-needers on this board who are always sweating how the team can balance it's way into a one time wildcard appearance so they can die happy. But the truth is that the Bills have a pretty good secondary. Capable corners supported by two safeties who wouldn't have been out of place at the pro bowl.
1B4IDie Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) I have to agree with Nix and therefore disagree with you about the CB's. The talent at CB is fine and depth is above average. Try comparing the Bills CB talent to other teams around the league. Then tell me how the Bills stack up in the front 7? Or QB? Or WR? I am not part of the needy-needy-needers on this board who are always sweating how the team can balance it's way into a one time wildcard appearance so they can die happy. But the truth is that the Bills have a pretty good secondary. Capable corners supported by two safeties who wouldn't have been out of place at the pro bowl. Um Buddy nix never said the talent level at CB is above average, that I know of. Do you have a link? What I heard Nix actually say is "You can never have enough corners." So looking at the list who are those capable corners? What is the 2012 Depth chart going to look at? I think Buddy and everyone with a set of eyes agrees there is a need at CB. Edited January 12, 2012 by Why So Serious?
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