OCinBuffalo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Oh yeah, one other thing? The reason Reagan and Clinton got 2nd terms? You know...when there were still a ton of economic concerns, terrible data, and uncertainty about their policies? We had little doubt about them as leaders, and therefore people were willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Who here has real faith in Obama as a leader? If you owned a company, and wanted to hire a GM, would you hire Obama? The other difference: People weren't looking trying to interpret obscure economic data, massage it to their needs, and have that be the story on the front page. Nope, instead, Clinton/Reagan was the story on the front page, exercising their leadership ability. They were not complaining about being unable to work with Congress, they getting things done with Congress. Both Reagan and Clinton were able to establish a rapport with Congress after the mid terms. Obama has done the opposite: he was petulant from day 1 to today, and arrogant, and learned nothing from the whipping of 2010. Now, he has no chance of developing that 2nd-term winning rapport. So, throw around all the #s you like Dave, they won't change people's minds about "strong leader"/"qualified to be President". That ship has sailed, and the only thing left is: attack the Republicans! BushBad, (insert Howard Dean scream here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yawn. Look, the fundamentals of the American economy basically mean that we simply cannot stay down for very long. Sooner or later things will get going again. The difference is: if Obama had done NOTHING, we'd be further along. There can be little doubt anymore that the net effect of Obama et al has been to impede growth. Yes, Obamacare is a big culprit, but there are a TON of other laws/regulations that nobody hears about, that are just as brutal for business. The smart play for Obama would have been to get the economy moving again, and THEN, push the "social justice" agenda. Instead, we got the dumb play: all Obama has accomplished is introducing things that reduce investment, and therefore retard growth. I cannot tell you OC how many times that I wrote something similar to this over on the "old" political board on the BBMB. The recovery was greatly extended by this administration's (so-called) economic policies..........................and its so funny watching our POTUS running around (pretending he's not) campaigning saying how they "saved" us. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_In_Norfolk Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 The reason why we are exporting more gasoline now is because of a lack of usual demand, implying a weak economy. I also happen to remember mentioning that as the perception of the economy picking up, that would dictate the price of gasoline. In regards to the economy, without a doubt the data has been coming in relatively pretty good, but during this time of the year it is normal to see hiring surges and as GS points out, many of those jobs appear to be temporary. Ás others have pointed out in this thread, something that I had mentioned many many times before the actual work force has remarkably shrunken over the past three years. With all the government help with extending the unemployment insurance (which I dont happen to fully disagree with) there is no doubt that this is adding to those woes, and that is something that really needs to be reformed moving forward. We are helping create a society of people who would simply rather not work and recieve gov. funds to help them muddle through life. I know for a fact that there are many people who are without jobs, able to work, who simply aren´t actively looking very hard for a job, simply because they are able to get by with what they are receiving with foodstamps and unemployment benefits. Oh no, I disagree. They are also drilling new wells all over the place. Oil is available that was not available with old drilling techniques. I invest in NOV and they are doing really well. I believe that most of the new jobs created have been created in drilling and mining. I also don't doubt some people are living fat and happy on benefits, but there are also a ton of jobs out there unfilled because the human capital is not yet available, but people are getting trained as we speak, people on unemployment insurance are training to fill jobs that didn't exist before. once that period of training transition is over those jobs will get filled. Your accusation--a Romneyesque statement--that we are creating a society tied to the dole, is unfair, if the jobs are not there then unemployment insurance will get relied on more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Oh no, I disagree. They are also drilling new wells all over the place. Oil is available that was not available with old drilling techniques. I invest in NOV and they are doing really well. I believe that most of the new jobs created have been created in drilling and mining. I also don't doubt some people are living fat and happy on benefits, but there are also a ton of jobs out there unfilled because the human capital is not yet available, but people are getting trained as we speak, people on unemployment insurance are training to fill jobs that didn't exist before. once that period of training transition is over those jobs will get filled. Your accusation--a Romneyesque statement--that we are creating a society tied to the dole, is unfair, if the jobs are not there then unemployment insurance will get relied on more. we´re arguing two different things here. I was talking about gasoline, you are talking about natural gas, and yes I agree that there are many jobs to be had in the energy sector, and even more so if the EPA slows down their incessant desire to block these projects. I didn´t say that I didn´t support social safety nets such as unemployment benefits, just that they have to reform them. I can unequivically say without a doubt that the social safety nets that we have in place today, without reform is leading us into a permanent high unemployment society that will continue to rely on government handouts. We gotta address this issue. We would be wise to look back at some of the German unemployment reforms, that initially outraged their more liberal members of Bundestag, but at the end of the day produced great results that today, no one can deny. Think about this for a second, the work force has shrunk so dramatically from where it was three years ago, if you had the same work force we did back in 2008, the unemployment rate wouldn´t be 8.5% it would be 10.9% This is very very troubling. This means that people have given up or that they simply decided to suck off the tit of the American people. One of the two, thats is. Not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Or maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Or maybe not. Post-holiday firings are roughly as meaningless as pre-holiday temp hirings. Again, talk to me in March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Or maybe not. so what are you saying all those temporary holiday jobs that the administration was using to fudge their numbers are back out on the street?!?! :shocked: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) The only chance Obama is leading during a strong economy is if his healthcare disaster is overturned and the democrats lose the Senate. I find the whole concept of crediting/blaming the economy on the president to be silly. Sure 9/11 happened and affected the economy, but that wasn't President Bush's decision (not paying for the wars was a mistake, but is just a small part of the recession.) Our economy is so closely tied to the rest of the world, that to think one man can have a major impact is completely laughable- and I am not saying that you insinuated that, but seeing people use that to build or discredit a current or former president is absolutely nauseating. By the way- what happened to the surplus that President Clinton SINGLEHANDEDLY built- I mean, who else dug under the couch's pillows for all that spare change! Edited January 12, 2012 by Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Or maybe not. But, but the president already took his victory lap. Edited January 12, 2012 by Magox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Post-holiday firings are roughly as meaningless as pre-holiday temp hirings. Again, talk to me in March. Holiday temp employees aren't eligible for unemployment benefits ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 The only thing steaming around here are the piles dropped by Dave_in_Norfolk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Happy days are here again The skies above are clear again So let's sing a song of cheer again Happy days are here again http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2012/01/12/the-worst-economic-recovery-since-the-great-depression/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Happy days are here again The skies above are clear again So let's sing a song of cheer again Happy days are here again http://www.forbes.co...eat-depression/ Nice article, thanks. I liked the reference to obama as/policies Rip Van Winklism. Even today, 49 months after the recession started, the U6 unemployment rate counting the unemployed, underemployed and discouraged workers is still 15.2%. And that doesn’t include all the workers who have fled the workforce under Obama’s economic oppression. The unemployment rate with the full measure of discouraged workers is reported at www.shadowstats.com as about 23%, which is depression level unemployment. Today, over 4 years since the recession started, there are still almost 25 million Americans unemployed or underemployed. That includes 5.6 million who are long-term unemployed for 27 weeks, or more than 6 months. Under President Obama, America has suffered the longest period with so many in such long-term unemployment since the Great Depression . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) The economy is now available via steam? I cannot tell you OC how many times that I wrote something similar to this over on the "old" political board on the BBMB. The recovery was greatly extended by this administration's (so-called) economic policies..........................and its so funny watching our POTUS running around (pretending he's not) campaigning saying how they "saved" us. . Well, that's what any politician on either side of the aisle would do. And one of the reasons the system is broken Edited January 13, 2012 by Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The economy is now available via steam? Sure why not. You can get Civilization via Steam, so why not The Economy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Well, that's what any politician on either side of the aisle would do. And one of the reasons the system is broken You are correct sir that it is certainly not unexpected for any president to campaign on his "successes" but, Mr. Obama's particular hypocrisy is especially funny since its not a matter of him not deserving (or deserving) credit for his "recovery", but the fact that we hven't really recovered yet and he pretends otherwise. . Edited January 13, 2012 by B-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Happy days are here again The skies above are clear again So let's sing a song of cheer again Happy days are here again http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2012/01/12/the-worst-economic-recovery-since-the-great-depression/ The sad truth of the matter is that not only was Obama not qualified to be president (sorry, two years in as a senator doesn't cut it), his far left socialistic policies came at the worst possible time imaginable. Wait till the effects of the next wave of spiking oil prices mess with an already bad economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You are correct sir that it is certainly not unexpected for any president to campaign on his "successes" but, Mr. Obama's particular hypocrisy is especially funny since its not a matter of him not deserving (or deserving) credit for his "recovery", but the fact that we hven't really recovered yet and he pretends otherwise. . And no politician in history, other than President Obama, has done this? As I said- it is a clear sign of why the system is broken. The people who would have voted for him anyways will agree that he fixed the economy, and the people who wouldn't have voted for him anyways, still won't. It may sway a couple independents who either believe it or are offended by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You are correct sir that it is certainly not unexpected for any president to campaign on his "successes" but, Mr. Obama's particular hypocrisy is especially funny since its not a matter of him not deserving (or deserving) credit for his "recovery", but the fact that we hven't really recovered yet and he pretends otherwise. . Don;t put this on Barry. He singlehandedly created tens, nay hundreds of thousands of shovel ready jobs. Its our fault, the soft and lazy American people, for failing to seize the opportunity. The opportunity to dig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Well, now that unemployment is all the way down to 8.5% it appears that's enough for workers to rebel against employers after record profits leave employees "exhausted and hanging on to their jobs by their fingernails." Yes, that's right. The economy is moving so well right now, and profits are so high, that talent retention may be a big problem in 2012. According to this MSNBC story, If current economic data is a harbinger of things to come, perhaps corporate America might be a bit more concerned about retention, instead of burning workers to a crisp. Let’s break down the numbers:- Unemployment fell for a fourth time in a row to 8.5 percent, it’s lowest point in nearly three years. - There’s been an uptick in the number of Americans quitting their jobs since the recession began in December of 2007, according to the Labor Department. - The BNA Annual Economic Forecast, (BNA tracks and analyzes legal, regulatory and business information) shows the U.S. economy improving, albeit with limited job creation, expected to increase in the second half. Also, modest gains in private sector workers’ hourly compensation. - The rate of layoffs is lower than anytime before the recession. Burning workers to a crisp? Wow. I'm surprised there aren't more people jumping from windows like the iPhone makers. Edited January 16, 2012 by LABillzFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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