PNW_Bills_Fan Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/10spot-wildcard/impatient-owners-allow-coaches-develop--adam-schefter-10-spot I agree with Schef coaches need more time to build for the long term. Give your coach a chance.
CodeMonkey Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Given the turd he inherited I can't say I don't agree on some level. But he still needs to show he is capable of being a HC and not just a OC. He has not done that to my satisfaction yet. Not quite sold on OC yet either, though this is a lot closer than HC. Edited January 6, 2012 by CodeMonkey
PromoTheRobot Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 The Bills have improved in almost every area. (I said almost) Only chat boards talk about firing Chan. PTR
PNW_Bills_Fan Posted January 6, 2012 Author Posted January 6, 2012 Yeah but how often do we see change way earlier than needed?
CodeMonkey Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) The Bills have improved in almost every area. (I said almost) Only chat boards talk about firing Chan. PTR The one area most people dwell on, particularly after the dirty dozen Bills fans have just endured, is team record. Which is obviously worse than the DJ era so far anyway. No matter how you try and spin it, or what excuses you make, 10-22 !@#$ing blows chunks. Edited January 6, 2012 by CodeMonkey
MikeSpeed Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 I'll give him 12................months. No playoffs in 2012, no Chan in 2013.
K-No Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 I'll give him 12................months. No playoffs in 2012, no Chan in 2013. Depends on what talent the GM gives him to work with...
CosmicBills Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 The Bills have improved in almost every area. (I said almost) Only chat boards talk about firing Chan. PTR To me it looks like they took huge steps in some areas and monumental steps backwards in others. That's been their pattern for 15 years. This team is abysmal. And has been for over a decade. It doesn't matter if they give Chan 6 years or 3, nothing will change until Ralph is no longer the owner of the team.
Mr. WEO Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 If you assume (as Schefter does) every HC has the same coaching ability and is simply applying it to different teams/sitautions, than yes, you should give the guy more time. But obviously some guys can coach, some can't. Is there anyone here who would say DJ should have gotten another 3 years? Greggg Williams? Of course not--that would be ridiculous. If after 3 years a HC hasn't shown strong evidence that he can coach, why keep him around? As for the Bills improving in "almost every area", that may be true if you are not including defense or Special Teams.
PNW_Bills_Fan Posted January 6, 2012 Author Posted January 6, 2012 To me it looks like they took huge steps in some areas and monumental steps backwards in others. That's been their pattern for 15 years. This team is abysmal. And has been for over a decade. It doesn't matter if they give Chan 6 years or 3, nothing will change until Ralph is no longer the owner of the team. I cannot stand this excuse. How has Wilson stopped us from winning? Don't tell me because we were not willing to over pay from Clements and others that Wilson has stopped us from winning. He tried to bring in up and coming coaches that to this day are being looked at as good head coach candidates. He has opened his wallet for some free agents. The FO has tried to make this team better...we just have not drafted well or had good luck in signing free agents. That is not all on Ralph. If you assume (as Schefter does) every HC has the same coaching ability and is simply applying it to different teams/sitautions, than yes, you should give the guy more time. But obviously some guys can coach, some can't. Is there anyone here who would say DJ should have gotten another 3 years? Greggg Williams? Of course not--that would be ridiculous. If after 3 years a HC hasn't shown strong evidence that he can coach, why keep him around? As for the Bills improving in "almost every area", that may be true if you are not including defense or Special Teams. We have a new "D" coordinator that has won in this league...when was the last time we had that? WADE Phillips?
Mr. WEO Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 I cannot stand this excuse. How has Wilson stopped us from winning? Don't tell me because we were not willing to over pay from Clements and others that Wilson has stopped us from winning. He tried to bring in up and coming coaches that to this day are being looked at as good head coach candidates. He has opened his wallet for some free agents. The FO has tried to make this team better...we just have not drafted well or had good luck in signing free agents. That is not all on Ralph. We have a new "D" coordinator that has won in this league...when was the last time we had that? WADE Phillips? Calling the old "Assitant Head Coach" the "new" DC is a stretch.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 I cannot stand this excuse. How has Wilson stopped us from winning? Don't tell me because we were not willing to over pay from Clements and others that Wilson has stopped us from winning. He tried to bring in up and coming coaches that to this day are being looked at as good head coach candidates. He has opened his wallet for some free agents. The FO has tried to make this team better...we just have not drafted well or had good luck in signing free agents. That is not all on Ralph. Lately the anti-Ralph argument is seldom about how much/little he spends. The argument as to why Ralph is the reason for failure is that he's the top man and bears ultimate responsibility. The argument is bolstered by very, very limited success in 51 seasons of football. More specifically the argument is that he's "built" an organization with less-than-qualified people who work in an environment that is not committed to winning… and that this lack of commitment results in the top people in the field not wanting to work for the Buffalo Bills… or something like this. There's a belief I share that many of the things the team does points to an organizational ineptitude. This is the world that Ralph has built… and it has given his detractors plenty of ammo and his supporters very little.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 But obviously some guys can coach, some can't. Is there anyone here who would say DJ should have gotten another 3 years? Greggg Williams? Of course not--that would be ridiculous. If after 3 years a HC hasn't shown strong evidence that he can coach, why keep him around? It might be different if you hire a young or first-time head coach. For example, maybe you hang on to Raheem Morris or Josh McDaniels longer, so they can figure things out and blossom. If you have a retread like Jauron, I think you probably know what his ceiling is and whether it's going to work after 3 years.
PromoTheRobot Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 The one area most people dwell on, particularly after the dirty dozen Bills fans have just endured, is team record. Which is obviously worse than the DJ era so far anyway. No matter how you try and spin it, or what excuses you make, 10-22 !@#$ing blows chunks. Well the one area we didn't improve was on D and that will cost you games. PTR
tennesseeboy Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 There is a bottom line here. He has had two or soon to be three drafts and three years of free agency, and has taken two years to settle on a starting qb (perhaps?) The Bills played some of their worst football ever in the second half of this season, with Chan at the helm. Sorry...I would fire him now, but if he stays, one would expect us to make the playoffs next year.
PromoTheRobot Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 To me it looks like they took huge steps in some areas and monumental steps backwards in others. That's been their pattern for 15 years. This team is abysmal. And has been for over a decade. It doesn't matter if they give Chan 6 years or 3, nothing will change until Ralph is no longer the owner of the team. Tgreg, I want you to give me a list of 5 areas where the Bills are "abysmal". Simple enough, right? The gauntlet is thrown. PTR
PNW_Bills_Fan Posted January 6, 2012 Author Posted January 6, 2012 Lately the anti-Ralph argument is seldom about how much/little he spends. The argument as to why Ralph is the reason for failure is that he's the top man and bears ultimate responsibility. The argument is bolstered by very, very limited success in 51 seasons of football. More specifically the argument is that he's "built" an organization with less-than-qualified people who work in an environment that is not committed to winning… and that this lack of commitment results in the top people in the field not wanting to work for the Buffalo Bills… or something like this. There's a belief I share that many of the things the team does points to an organizational ineptitude. This is the world that Ralph has built… and it has given his detractors plenty of ammo and his supporters very little. I would agree that Ralph has created this culture. I would also add that this is the second time he has tried to give control to someone else to run the team. He first did it with Tom D and now with Russ B. I think we could blame Ralph for the past but this future is on Brandon...just like the Tom D years were on him. Ralph I get the impression wants to be informed, but doesn't want the headache anymore. Since Russ has taken over we have hired two football guys in Nix and Chan. Both had a reputation of winning. We add Doug as the Assistant GM and Dave W as Assistant head coach and now "D" coordinator. I think this staff looks good on paper and has the potential of turning things around. We can look at the past and learn, but our past is not our future.
Mr. WEO Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Tgreg, I want you to give me a list of 5 areas where the Bills are "abysmal". Simple enough, right? The gauntlet is thrown. PTR The D and STs have not improved. You said "almost everything" has improved. What did you have in mind?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 The Bills have improved in almost every area. (I said almost) Only chat boards talk about firing Chan. PTR There are three phases of the game - offense, defense, and special teams. In which phases of the game have the Bills improved during Chan's 2 year tenure? Tgreg, I want you to give me a list of 5 areas where the Bills are "abysmal". Simple enough, right? The gauntlet is thrown. PTR Thrown back atcha, PTR. I want you to give me a list of the areas in which the Bills have improved. You said they had improved in almost every area. Simple enough, right?
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