jumbalaya Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 Has there been anything from OBD confirming Buddy's retirement? No thank you to Polian comong back. There are reasons Ralph fired him, and they sound pretty much like the reasons he just got canned in Indy. He was fired because Ralph's daughter was calling shots on draft picks and he did not think that wise. Ralph disagreed. The guy builds winners.
IndyMark Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 let me guess. Success can't be assigned to th gm but can be assigned to the qb and coach..... At least you acknowledge you would be guessing. Thanks for that. But, in my opinion, the individuals on the field any given Sunday (or Sat or Mon or Thursday) contribute more directly and heavily to the actual W - L record than anyone in the front office including the owner. Do you disagree?
Adam Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 At least you acknowledge you would be guessing. Thanks for that. But, in my opinion, the individuals on the field any given Sunday (or Sat or Mon or Thursday) contribute more directly and heavily to the actual W - L record than anyone in the front office including the owner. Do you disagree? yes and no. The front office picks who is on the field, but they need margin for error. The Colts have been successful over time and that reflects positively on Polian. He has been successful everywhere he has been and should be a first ballot hall of famer. Granted, his success has been predicated on the success of those he put in place. Similarly, those people's success has been built on his success.
gobillsinytown Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 He was fired because Ralph's daughter was calling shots on draft picks and he did not think that wise. Ralph disagreed. The guy builds winners. I don't remember that being the issue. The problem was that Bill and Jeff Littman couldn't agree on where money should be spent. Littman is the CFO of all of Ralph's businesses, so he won out. Polian's problem is that while he's a great football man, he has temper problems and has a hard time compromising. His track record shows that he's a blessing and a curse: Builds a winner, then gets forced out. But now he's older and time takes its toll on people in high pressure positions like GM. It will be interesting to see if another team picks him up.
Tcali Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 I guess the question in my mind is how many GMs had they been in Indy and had the "foresight" to draft Peyton Manning would have also won a Super Bowl… or more than one. Also of course, how many GMs wouldn't have made the playoffs even with Manning. How much credit does Polian get for winning "only" one Super Bowl with Manning? Of course a Super Bowl victory is something that any organization should be proud of but that's not the discussion here. Did Polian build a solid, quality team that could win with a much-lesser quarterback like the Patsies* did with Matt Cassel? Besides Manning's passing and some good pass rushers, were the Polian/Manning Colts really that great of a roster compared to other Super Bowl winners? I guess I've never been impressed with the construction of the Colts roster the way I have with most of the other Super Bowl winners. And to nitpick Polian a bit more (maybe I'm not being fair) I think it would really behoove him to retire at this point. He's nearly 70 and his reputation is secure. His boy will have to make his own way. good points. I would rate Polian as a very very good GM.not great.I think he made a few big mistakes(Smerlas for one)that cost the Bills big time- constructing the team with too light of a defense.we were outsized and muscled in the SBs. The Indy SB was deserved but they were a bit lucky/fortunate that year. And many of Indys playoff teams got dispatched pretty easily .A Polian team would never have sniffed the SB w out manning--and a cassel led Indy team woulda been 8-8 max.However,gotta give belichek the genius credit for that 11-5 year.I'm really not so sure how great the NE GMs were/are.There are a handful of coaches in history who affect that equation at that level...Walsh,Lombardi,Belichek,......and now Harbaugh.
jjmac Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 He was fired because Ralph's daughter was calling shots on draft picks and he did not think that wise. Ralph disagreed. The guy builds winners. Winners that fall apart when one player gets injured. That entire team is built around Peyton Manning, and when he was out of the lineup, it showed. I don't remember that being the issue. The problem was that Bill and Jeff Littman couldn't agree on where money should be spent. Littman is the CFO of all of Ralph's businesses, so he won out. Polian's problem is that while he's a great football man, he has temper problems and has a hard time compromising. His track record shows that he's a blessing and a curse: Builds a winner, then gets forced out. But now he's older and time takes its toll on people in high pressure positions like GM. It will be interesting to see if another team picks him up. I rest comfortably in the fact that it won't be Buffalo.
Adam Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 good points. I would rate Polian as a very very good GM.not great.I think he made a few big mistakes(Smerlas for one)that cost the Bills big time- constructing the team with too light of a defense.we were outsized and muscled in the SBs. The Indy SB was deserved but they were a bit lucky/fortunate that year. And many of Indys playoff teams got dispatched pretty easily .A Polian team would never have sniffed the SB w out manning--and a cassel led Indy team woulda been 8-8 max.However,gotta give belichek the genius credit for that 11-5 year.I'm really not so sure how great the NE GMs were/are.There are a handful of coaches in history who affect that equation at that level...Walsh,Lombardi,Belichek,......and now Harbaugh. the GM usually hires the coach.
Bob in STL Posted January 8, 2012 Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) I guess the question in my mind is how many GMs had they been in Indy and had the "foresight" to draft Peyton Manning would have also won a Super Bowl… or more than one. Also of course, how many GMs wouldn't have made the playoffs even with Manning. How much credit does Polian get for winning "only" one Super Bowl with Manning? Of course a Super Bowl victory is something that any organization should be proud of but that's not the discussion here. Did Polian build a solid, quality team that could win with a much-lesser quarterback like the Patsies* did with Matt Cassel? Besides Manning's passing and some good pass rushers, were the Polian/Manning Colts really that great of a roster compared to other Super Bowl winners? I guess I've never been impressed with the construction of the Colts roster the way I have with most of the other Super Bowl winners. And to nitpick Polian a bit more (maybe I'm not being fair) I think it would really behoove him to retire at this point. He's nearly 70 and his reputation is secure. His boy will have to make his own way. You seem to think that any GM could could Super Bowl with Manning? Look at the number of Pro Bowl players that Colts had those years and almost all were drafted by Polian. They made it there 2 times and they had to get past NE and Pittsburgh to do that (the three best teams were all AFC). Just two years ago they had a shot at an undefeated season with an unproven coach at the helm. A coach, I might add, that is a far cry from Belichek, Noll, Shula, Gibbs, Johnson or even Levy. Please remember that Miami won ZERO SBs with Marino and they had Don Shula as their coach. Fouts never won a SB either. Same with Esiason, Tarkington, etc. I agree that Polian should retire on top. Edited January 8, 2012 by Bob in STL
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) I guess the question in my mind is how many GMs had they been in Indy and had the "foresight" to draft Peyton Manning would have also won a Super Bowl… or more than one. Also of course, how many GMs wouldn't have made the playoffs even with Manning. How much credit does Polian get for winning "only" one Super Bowl with Manning? You seem to think that any GM could could Super Bowl with Manning? No. I was not saying that. I think the excerpt above shows that the questions I was asking in my evaluation were very fair. Edited January 9, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan
Lurker Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 He was fired because Ralph's daughter was calling shots on draft picks and he did not think that wise. Ralph disagreed. The guy builds winners. Ralph's daughter was by no means "calling the shots". She was doing low-level scouting (Pat Williams was he most notable "find") and had limited sway in the war room. While it didn't help Polian's cause to call her a "rhymes-with-runt" and disrespect her in front of the old man, it was battles over player contracts with Littmann that got him the boot...
peytonmanning18 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) I made an account on here just to talk about this. Bill Polian was at a point with the Colts where he was doing a minimal amount of the actual work that needed to be done for the Colts, he was putting more and more of the responsibility on his son, because IMO he was preparing to retire and wanted to leave his son in a position to run the organization. People around the league have said Chris Polian would not even be remotely considered for a GM position with another team, but would be brought in as a scout. Bill Polian is one of the greatest GMs of all time, but Michael Jordan was the greatest basketball players of all time at one point too, that doesn't mean he could still drop 50 points in an NBA game. Bill Polian has not had a good draft in years, and now the Colts have a bunch of aging stars with no one to step in and replace them, while being in salary cap hell. Here are a few of his "replacement" mistakes: He drafted Anthony Gonzalez knowing that Marvin Harrison's career was nearing an end and he wanted Gonzalez to take over the #2 spot so Wayne could move up to #1, that hasn't worked. He drafted Tony Ugoh to replace Tarik Glenn when he retired, Ugoh was cut 2 years later. He drafted Donald Brown to replace Joseph Addai so they wouldn't have to sign Addai to a big contract, when Brown hadn't shown that he was capable of being the #1 guy, they were forced to re-sign Addai. Polian did a lot of good things from 1998-2005, but since then, he has done nothing to improve this franchise. Edited January 9, 2012 by peytonmanning18
Adam Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I made an account on here just to talk about this. Bill Polian was at a point with the Colts where he was doing a minimal amount of the actual work that needed to be done for the Colts, he was putting more and more of the responsibility on his son, because IMO he was preparing to retire and wanted to leave his son in a position to run the organization. People around the league have said Chris Polian would not even be remotely considered for a GM position with another team, but would be brought in as a scout. Bill Polian is one of the greatest GMs of all time, but Michael Jordan was the greatest basketball players of all time at one point too, that doesn't mean he could still drop 50 points in an NBA game. Bill Polian has not had a good draft in years, and now the Colts have a bunch of aging stars with no one to step in and replace them, while being in salary cap hell. Here are a few of his "replacement" mistakes: He drafted Anthony Gonzalez knowing that Marvin Harrison's career was nearing an end and he wanted Gonzalez to take over the #2 spot so Wayne could move up to #1, that hasn't worked. He drafted Tony Ugoh to replace Tarik Glenn when he retired, Ugoh was cut 2 years later. He drafted Donald Brown to replace Joseph Addai so they wouldn't have to sign Addai to a big contract, when Brown hadn't shown that he was capable of being the #1 guy, they were forced to re-sign Addai. Polian did a lot of good things from 1998-2005, but since then, he has done nothing to improve this franchise. calculated risks are never taken in the draft, because the exact player you need is always there. Same in free agency.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 calculated risks are never taken in the draft, because the exact player you need is always there. Same in free agency. Could you elaborate on this Adam 'cause I have no idea what you're saying.
peytonmanning18 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Could you elaborate on this Adam 'cause I have no idea what you're saying. me either
Adam Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Could you elaborate on this Adam 'cause I have no idea what you're saying. Guys like Ugoh were calculated risks to try to fill a need. Players who rates high in some aspects but carried risks. Not having a good left tackle to cover manning's blind side after Alex's retirement made that a worthwhile risk, but it didn't pan out. The selection still made sense. The draft is a crapshoot because not everyone pans out and teams have needs to fill, which could cause them to go with a lesser player than what is available. Polian built a team that was among the elite for a long time.
peytonmanning18 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Guys like Ugoh were calculated risks to try to fill a need. Players who rates high in some aspects but carried risks. Not having a good left tackle to cover manning's blind side after Alex's retirement made that a worthwhile risk, but it didn't pan out. The selection still made sense. The draft is a crapshoot because not everyone pans out and teams have needs to fill, which could cause them to go with a lesser player than what is available. Polian built a team that was among the elite for a long time. Polian drafted a QB that kept the Colts elite for a long time. This year proves that he lost his touch. Not to mention, when draft picks don't pan out, someone is to blame. I say the person making the picks is the one to blame and that would be Polian. If he had taken Leaf instead of Manning, he would have been fired a long time ago.
Adam Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Polian drafted a QB that kept the Colts elite for a long time. This year proves that he lost his touch. Not to mention, when draft picks don't pan out, someone is to blame. I say the person making the picks is the one to blame and that would be Polian. If he had taken Leaf instead of Manning, he would have been fired a long time ago. first. Look at that first sentence. Polian making that choice first elevated the Colts. He also added many other pieces that allowed Manning to be elite. Without a great line, James, Wayne, etc..... manning would not have become an all time great. Without getting a patient coach like Dungy and putting together thw defense that clicked in the championship run a few years ago (despite sub par play from manning) this would have been no Superbowl. Bill Polian was not the GM this year, his son who isn't very highly regarded was. Manning flourished because of the environment and talented group that was built. Dan Marino was at least as good, probably better.
peytonmanning18 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 first. Look at that first sentence. Polian making that choice first elevated the Colts. He also added many other pieces that allowed Manning to be elite. Without a great line, James, Wayne, etc..... manning would not have become an all time great. Without getting a patient coach like Dungy and putting together thw defense that clicked in the championship run a few years ago (despite sub par play from manning) this would have been no Superbowl. Bill Polian was not the GM this year, his son who isn't very highly regarded was. Manning flourished because of the environment and talented group that was built. Dan Marino was at least as good, probably better. lol
Adam Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 lol What categories do you find Manning better in? Marino had less talent to work with, a shoddy line, no running back and a putrid defense.
peytonmanning18 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 What categories do you find Manning better in? Marino had less talent to work with, a shoddy line, no running back and a putrid defense. You could just as easily insert Manning's name into that sentence.
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