Jonathan Martin

[C.Biscuit97]

I don't want to argue, but I wish to make a few points in the spirit of football discussion.

 

1) No, it didn't work. We failed to make the playoffs once again. We traded Peters and drafted a player who, like Bell, is constantly hurt. There is no reason to think that our record would not have been better with Jason Peters on the roster imo. Do you agree?

 

2) Both the Browns and the Dolphins have questionable at best coaching staffs. Still, since Long and Thomas have been on their respective teams, I think that they have both made the playoffs. Am I correct? Not sure about Thomas and too lazy to look it up.

 

3) I concede the fact that the Bills OL is better than it has been in 15 or so years. Levitre can really play, and I like Urbik. Pears and Hairston look like good RTs. I don't know how much to count on Wood and Bell due to chronic injuries.

 

4) For the first time that I can remember (literally), I think that the Bills biggest need is not OL. Imo it's OLB. We really have none, and only 1 credible ILB. This is unacceptable. That said, I am all about the best LT, pass rushing OLB, or QB available. DBs and flashy toy running backs have not resulted in wins. I sincerely hope that we re-sign SJ and address these crucial needs first. The Bills need a trip to the playoffs. So do Bills fans, big time.

 

Happy New Year!

 

Bill, even though we disagree on almost everything, you are one of my favorite posters. Happy New Years to you and yours.

 

1) I believe our best record when Jason Peters was a starter was 7-9. We went 6-10 and had a 7 game losing streak. The Eagles went 8-8 and Peters was about as healthy has he has ever been. The year that Peters held out, showed up out of shape, and completely soured me on him, we started 4-0 while he rotated in and out. So no, I don't think we would have one more W with Peters but obviously this can't be proven.

 

I know you don't like him, but when healthy, Bell is a damn fine LT. I believe you are slow to adjust to the current NFL. You don't need the monsters at tackles anymore. With the use of the spread, you need agile guys who can handle speed rushers. Bell is very good at this and has improved tremedously IMO. The main concern is staying healthy. IMO, he needs to be re-signed.

 

2) The Browns haven't made the playoffs since Long has been drafted. The Fins made it in Long's first year, with the same coaching staff you just called questionable. Trust me, they are great players. But my point is that LTs are a position that is a difference maker. One playoff appearance for 2 of the best LTs is not impressive at all to me.

 

Matt Ryan, who the Fins thankfully passed on, is on playoff appearance #3 in 4 years. You think Miami might want that one back? The huge difference is that while Long maybe better at his position than Ryan is at his, QB is more of a difference maker. I also think a pass rusher, DT, and possibly cornerbacks (see what Revis has done for the Jets)are more important than LTs as well.

 

3) Do you believe it is on the players or the coaching staff? It is probably in between but that gives me confidence that this group can find talent without spending high picks on olinemen.

 

4) Again, this is where we have the biggest difference. I'm just guessing but you're an old school guy. Well, this is an entirely different league. It is all about passing and quick rbs.

 

I know you hate Spiller. During the draft, I wanted Bulaga but that was simply because I didn't think rb was as big of a need. But Spiller has shown flashes of being a great talent. IMO, a player like Spiller is more of a difference maker that a RT like Bulaga. How much better is Bulaga over Pears? It's very small at best. Bulaga, IMO, doesn't win us one more game. But if Spiller breaks a 50 yarder like he is capable? Game changer.

 

Again, pass rusher is our biggest need with another receiver a close 2nd. And while I would never mind a legit LT, in today's NFL, they just aren't as important. Just my 2 cents. Cheers.

[T master]

Team strategy is you find offensive tackles in the late rounds or off the street. No sense in wasting picks on a position so easily found with lesser resources.

 

Hey we did it once , found a great talent for LT & showed him exactly how good he was & what did that get us just another greedy ingrate !! We can find another !!

 

That seems to be the Bills M O give the guy the platform & the time & coaching to be good then they stick it to us just go see what Mcgahee & Peters think .

 

Although we did make Willis a first rounder didn't we ? Sorry i forgot you were talking late rounders !! My Bad !!

Edited January 5, 2012 by T master

[Astrobot]

I haven't seen Stanford play much this year, but I really liked what I saw from Martin in the Fiesta Bowl the other night.

 

I thought he looked pretty agile and moved his feet well, as well as got in good position run blocking.

 

I know the Bills need a pass rusher, but I wouldn't throw a legit LT out the window. I just doubt that the Bills would pick up a new tackle since they seem to have a logjam of average tackles already on the roster.

 

Anyone else have any thoughts on Martin?

Don't throw LT out the window in RD1. Watch for DraftTek's new mock coming out shortly. Wouldn't you take Mario Williams in FA and Mike Adams, JonMart, or Riley Reiff (Bulaga's successor) at LT?

[C.Biscuit97]

Don't throw LT out the window in RD1. Watch for DraftTek's new mock coming out shortly. Wouldn't you take Mario Williams in FA and Mike Adams, JonMart, or Riley Reiff (Bulaga's successor) at LT?

 

I love your work Astro but there is zero chance Williams hits the market.

 

But yes, I'd take that scenario.

[Bill from NYC]

Bill, even though we disagree on almost everything, you are one of my favorite posters. Happy New Years to you and yours.

 

1) I believe our best record when Jason Peters was a starter was 7-9. We went 6-10 and had a 7 game losing streak. The Eagles went 8-8 and Peters was about as healthy has he has ever been. The year that Peters held out, showed up out of shape, and completely soured me on him, we started 4-0 while he rotated in and out. So no, I don't think we would have one more W with Peters but obviously this can't be proven.

 

I know you don't like him, but when healthy, Bell is a damn fine LT. I believe you are slow to adjust to the current NFL. You don't need the monsters at tackles anymore. With the use of the spread, you need agile guys who can handle speed rushers. Bell is very good at this and has improved tremedously IMO. The main concern is staying healthy. IMO, he needs to be re-signed.

 

2) The Browns haven't made the playoffs since Long has been drafted. The Fins made it in Long's first year, with the same coaching staff you just called questionable. Trust me, they are great players. But my point is that LTs are a position that is a difference maker. One playoff appearance for 2 of the best LTs is not impressive at all to me.

 

Matt Ryan, who the Fins thankfully passed on, is on playoff appearance #3 in 4 years. You think Miami might want that one back? The huge difference is that while Long maybe better at his position than Ryan is at his, QB is more of a difference maker. I also think a pass rusher, DT, and possibly cornerbacks (see what Revis has done for the Jets)are more important than LTs as well.

 

3) Do you believe it is on the players or the coaching staff? It is probably in between but that gives me confidence that this group can find talent without spending high picks on olinemen.

 

4) Again, this is where we have the biggest difference. I'm just guessing but you're an old school guy. Well, this is an entirely different league. It is all about passing and quick rbs.

 

I know you hate Spiller. During the draft, I wanted Bulaga but that was simply because I didn't think rb was as big of a need. But Spiller has shown flashes of being a great talent. IMO, a player like Spiller is more of a difference maker that a RT like Bulaga. How much better is Bulaga over Pears? It's very small at best. Bulaga, IMO, doesn't win us one more game. But if Spiller breaks a 50 yarder like he is capable? Game changer.

 

Again, pass rusher is our biggest need with another receiver a close 2nd. And while I would never mind a legit LT, in today's NFL, they just aren't as important. Just my 2 cents. Cheers.

 

1) Who was the qb when we had Paters? Losman/Edwards? Fitz is Peyton Manning compared to those stiffs.

 

2) Again, obvious qb and coaching problems. Yet the Fins made the playoffs with Pennington.

 

3) You are correct; it is both. But remember, it took the Bills 15 years to stumble into a so-so OL. and during this time they are consistently losing. Their best resources have not been used well. The 06 draft (and free agency period) killed us. We are only starting to recover a little imo. The 10 draft was another killer.

 

4) Bulaga went late. They really might have been able to trade down and take him and another contributing player. Please consider this when comparing Bulaga to Pears/Hairston. And yes, I am old school. The best teams I have ever seen beat their opponents up. The league has in fact changed; you are correct. But using top picks on Spiller, Whitner, etc. will result in losses when your foundation is neglected, and your team is fundamentally weak. We are living proof of this.

 

Finally, do try to watch the LSU/Bama game. Look at their 3 LBs (Upshaw/Hightower/Johnson) and then let's talk. Barron will be a better safety in his rookie year than Whitner could ever dream of being in his prime. Kirkpatrick will be twice as good as Leodis. These are only a few. Watch their TE, and Barrett Jones. I hope the Bills stock up with Bama players. If they do, they will win more football games.

[JPS]

I know it's been done to death, but we were watching the Michigan game and my wife points out an offensive lineman and how well he would fit in with the Bills. His name was spelled weird, but it looked like HUGE. Maybe it was Huyge.

 

Here's a girl that gets it.

 

On Martin, unless he is Jake Long/Joe Thomas, you just have to roll with what you have and draft more defense.