Joe Miner Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 I haven't seen Stanford play much this year, but I really liked what I saw from Martin in the Fiesta Bowl the other night. I thought he looked pretty agile and moved his feet well, as well as got in good position run blocking. I know the Bills need a pass rusher, but I wouldn't throw a legit LT out the window. I just doubt that the Bills would pick up a new tackle since they seem to have a logjam of average tackles already on the roster. Anyone else have any thoughts on Martin?
RyanC883 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 What round is he projected>? That's the real question. I see us going WR/QB/OLB/or DE in the first round. After that, I have no idea, but I think "best player available at position of need"--which includes LT on the Bills.
Turbosrrgood Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) I haven't seen Stanford play much this year, but I really liked what I saw from Martin in the Fiesta Bowl the other night. I thought he looked pretty agile and moved his feet well, as well as got in good position run blocking. I know the Bills need a pass rusher, but I wouldn't throw a legit LT out the window. I just doubt that the Bills would pick up a new tackle since they seem to have a logjam of average tackles already on the roster. Anyone else have any thoughts on Martin? Martin is projected to be one of the top tackles in the draft, now that he declared he is entering. It's not an exciting pick, but I wouldn't be upset if he was the guy. Many including myself think a pass rusher is the biggest need, but I don't know if there are any "special" prospects for that in this draft. The Bills should take the best player available that can help this team, and fit in to our scheme (no one knows exactly on defense yet...). RG3 or Blackmon would be great, as would a game changing pass rusher, but if one of those isn't available Jonathan Martin could be a good choice. Edited January 4, 2012 by Turbosrrgood
jr1 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Drafttek had him going 20 on their 12/29 big board but his stock has probably gone up
BillsVet Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Team strategy is you find offensive tackles in the late rounds or off the street. No sense in wasting picks on a position so easily found with lesser resources.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Team strategy is you find offensive tackles in the late rounds or off the street. No sense in wasting picks on a position so easily found with lesser resources. Well, considering we just gave up the fewest sacks in the NFL and averaged 5 ypc this past season, I'd say that it worked out. Bell is a good LT when healthy and his replacements filled in solidly. Trust me, I won't be mad with a franchise LT. But IMO, it is a position that is very overrated. What do Jake Long and Joe Thomas have in common? They are top 5 picks, are 2 of the best at their position, and both play for losing teams. With the amount of spread teams play, your tackle spots aren't nearly as important. If Martin is the pick, I certainly won't be mad. But it is really far down the less of needs for this team.
John from Riverside Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 If you want this defense to be good you are gonna have to give Wanstaddt some groceries to work with.......this defense isn't going to be top 10 just by his coaching alone. BUT I dont want to reach for anyone either.....that the best available player at a position of need regardless of where that is....a top 10 player should be a difference maker from day one.
starrymessenger Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Well, considering we just gave up the fewest sacks in the NFL and averaged 5 ypc this past season, I'd say that it worked out. Bell is a good LT when healthy and his replacements filled in solidly. Trust me, I won't be mad with a franchise LT. But IMO, it is a position that is very overrated. What do Jake Long and Joe Thomas have in common? They are top 5 picks, are 2 of the best at their position, and both play for losing teams. With the amount of spread teams play, your tackle spots aren't nearly as important. If Martin is the pick, I certainly won't be mad. But it is really far down the less of needs for this team. I hear you but I would still much rather take Martin instead of say Coples.
Joe Miner Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 Well, considering we just gave up the fewest sacks in the NFL and averaged 5 ypc this past season, I'd say that it worked out. Bell is a good LT when healthy and his replacements filled in solidly. Trust me, I won't be mad with a franchise LT. But IMO, it is a position that is very overrated. What do Jake Long and Joe Thomas have in common? They are top 5 picks, are 2 of the best at their position, and both play for losing teams. With the amount of spread teams play, your tackle spots aren't nearly as important. If Martin is the pick, I certainly won't be mad. But it is really far down the less of needs for this team. I think you know as well as I do that there is more to the fewest sacks stat and the 5 ypc stat than the OL play. Although I'm not disagreeing that our OL did what was asked of them pretty well this season. I'm not saying LT is our biggest need. But the topic was more on Martin, not the biggest Bills needs. I would be the first to say pass rush (DE/OLB). I could even see a WR. But I also think a legitimate stud LT could be very beneficial to the team. So, is Martin able to be a stud LT in the NFL? How does he compare to past stud LT's, and how does he compare to the current Bill's LT's? I liked what I saw in the bowl game, but I admittedly don't know enough about the LT position, or Martin's whole body of work to determine how good of a player he is/isn't and how well he projects in the NFL.
starrymessenger Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 I think you know as well as I do that there is more to the fewest sacks stat and the 5 ypc stat than the OL play. Although I'm not disagreeing that our OL did what was asked of them pretty well this season. I'm not saying LT is our biggest need. But the topic was more on Martin, not the biggest Bills needs. I would be the first to say pass rush (DE/OLB). I could even see a WR. But I also think a legitimate stud LT could be very beneficial to the team. So, is Martin able to be a stud LT in the NFL? How does he compare to past stud LT's, and how does he compare to the current Bill's LT's? I liked what I saw in the bowl game, but I admittedly don't know enough about the LT position, or Martin's whole body of work to determine how good of a player he is/isn't and how well he projects in the NFL. Pick Martin and you are probably set at that position for the next ten years. You can then also expand your playbook, more 5 step drops and the possibilty of a vertical game when it comes in handy, assuming you have a QB and receivers who can do it.
RyanC883 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 I hear you but I would still much rather take Martin instead of say Coples. Agreed. Coples will sit on the bench. Martin will be a day 1 starter. Plus, a line with him, Levitre and Wood would be dominant for years to come. If a top pass rusher is there, I'd take him, (or RG3/Blackmon) but if its someone like Coples I'd pass.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 I think you know as well as I do that there is more to the fewest sacks stat and the 5 ypc stat than the OL play. Although I'm not disagreeing that our OL did what was asked of them pretty well this season. I'm not saying LT is our biggest need. But the topic was more on Martin, not the biggest Bills needs. I would be the first to say pass rush (DE/OLB). I could even see a WR. But I also think a legitimate stud LT could be very beneficial to the team. So, is Martin able to be a stud LT in the NFL? How does he compare to past stud LT's, and how does he compare to the current Bill's LT's? I liked what I saw in the bowl game, but I admittedly don't know enough about the LT position, or Martin's whole body of work to determine how good of a player he is/isn't and how well he projects in the NFL. Like I said, I won't hate the pick. But LTs are completely overvalued. Elite Lts aren't winning football games. Drew Brees' LT is very average. The Packers have the old Chad Clifton who gets hurt every other game. With top 10 picks, I think you want franchise changers. I don't believe LT falls into that position anymore. So I won't hate the pick but I won't exactly be thrilled by it either.
Turbosrrgood Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Agreed. Coples will sit on the bench. Martin will be a day 1 starter. Plus, a line with him, Levitre and Wood would be dominant for years to come. If a top pass rusher is there, I'd take him, (or RG3/Blackmon) but if its someone like Coples I'd pass. Or until their contracts expire and the Bills let them walk...
KOKBILLS Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 What round is he projected>? That's the real question. I see us going WR/QB/OLB/or DE in the first round. After that, I have no idea, but I think "best player available at position of need"--which includes LT on the Bills. I usually see his name around 10-15 overall...He may go higher though...
bobobonators Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 as long as chan gailey is coaching this team, there's no point in drafting OL anywhere in the first or second rounds...a spread offense, 5 WR set, does not require a team to have a premier tackle. we need a deep threat at WR and we need another great pass catching TE to go with Chandler...I want our offense to look like the Pats. tell fitzy to grow his hair out and start dating a super model.
Bill from NYC Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Well, considering we just gave up the fewest sacks in the NFL and averaged 5 ypc this past season, I'd say that it worked out. Bell is a good LT when healthy and his replacements filled in solidly. Trust me, I won't be mad with a franchise LT. But IMO, it is a position that is very overrated. What do Jake Long and Joe Thomas have in common? They are top 5 picks, are 2 of the best at their position, and both play for losing teams. With the amount of spread teams play, your tackle spots aren't nearly as important. If Martin is the pick, I certainly won't be mad. But it is really far down the less of needs for this team. I don't want to argue, but I wish to make a few points in the spirit of football discussion. 1) No, it didn't work. We failed to make the playoffs once again. We traded Peters and drafted a player who, like Bell, is constantly hurt. There is no reason to think that our record would not have been better with Jason Peters on the roster imo. Do you agree? 2) Both the Browns and the Dolphins have questionable at best coaching staffs. Still, since Long and Thomas have been on their respective teams, I think that they have both made the playoffs. Am I correct? Not sure about Thomas and too lazy to look it up. 3) I concede the fact that the Bills OL is better than it has been in 15 or so years. Levitre can really play, and I like Urbik. Pears and Hairston look like good RTs. I don't know how much to count on Wood and Bell due to chronic injuries. 4) For the first time that I can remember (literally), I think that the Bills biggest need is not OL. Imo it's OLB. We really have none, and only 1 credible ILB. This is unacceptable. That said, I am all about the best LT, pass rushing OLB, or QB available. DBs and flashy toy running backs have not resulted in wins. I sincerely hope that we re-sign SJ and address these crucial needs first. The Bills need a trip to the playoffs. So do Bills fans, big time. Happy New Year!
bobobonators Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 I don't want to argue, but I wish to make a few points in the spirit of football discussion. 1) No, it didn't work. We failed to make the playoffs once again. We traded Peters and drafted a player who, like Bell, is constantly hurt. There is no reason to think that our record would not have been better with Jason Peters on the roster imo. Do you agree? 2) Both the Browns and the Dolphins have questionable at best coaching staffs. Still, since Long and Thomas have been on their respective teams, I think that they have both made the playoffs. Am I correct? Not sure about Thomas and too lazy to look it up. 3) I concede the fact that the Bills OL is better than it has been in 15 or so years. Levitre can really play, and I like Urbik. Pears and Hairston look like good RTs. I don't know how much to count on Wood and Bell due to chronic injuries. 4) For the first time that I can remember (literally), I think that the Bills biggest need is not OL. Imo it's OLB. We really have none, and only 1 credible ILB. This is unacceptable. That said, I am all about the best LT, pass rushing OLB, or QB available. DBs and flashy toy running backs have not resulted in wins. I sincerely hope that we re-sign SJ and address these crucial needs first. The Bills need a trip to the playoffs. So do Bills fans, big time. Happy New Year! I don't agree with your point regarding Peters. I can't think of 1 game this season where the LT gave up 3-4 sacks and cost us the game. Other than the Dolphins game where the lack of a true backup center really cost us, I can't really pin any single loss on the O-line this season..especially on the LT position. If anything, what player would not be on the roster right now as a result of having to make space to sign Peters at LT? I really like Peters, but we didn't win when he was here either. LT was not the problem this year..we need more depth on the O-line, that's for sure..but I actually like the way our O-line played this season. And again, with the style of offense that chan runs, it's truly a waste of cap space to sign a stud LT. (IMHO)
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Pick Martin and you are probably set at that position for the next ten years. You can then also expand your playbook, more 5 step drops and the possibilty of a vertical game when it comes in handy, assuming you have a QB and receivers who can do it. Saw someone, maybe Kiper or else projected him as top 10 talent in draft. I'd do it.
3rdand12 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Left Tackle was a Big problem this year. Jeez, we had Bell out then Hairston out then Levitre ( our best guard ) move out there. It was a season changing problem. Sure, when Bell and Hairston played, they played decently enough or better for the most part. but they also caused alot of uncomfortable personnel movement with the injury bug. LT is not secure at all i think yet. should we wait and see with Bell? and with Hairston who is a more likely RT or do we solve the problem with a long term answer. If Martin is what he is talked up to be go ahead and get it done. I myself want a strong pass rush (2 players), and a stud WR as early as feasible.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Personaly, i think the Bills resign Bell and find a good veteran interior guy that can play center FIRST and gaurd second. This would give you 3 tackles, 2 of which can play LT (Hairston and Bell) and Pears was an average to good starter at RT. The problem was when injuries started pilling up, the Bills had no one to replace the guys that went down. First and foremost center. Rhinhardt and Urbik can both play RG. Levitre is a stud at LG. Dont draft OL early. Can't believe i am saying that either. But maybe find a guy in the 3-5 rounds that is a quality young center. If Woods keeps having injuries, you got your guy of the future. Get the defense a pass rusher and LB help. Heck even make a splash in FA and get Bowe at WR. I know, it will never happen. drafting a LT now seems like a CJ spiller pick with no style even.
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