jcbillsfan Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Oh wait. Now we have to lock up Doug Whaley. Typical Bills to let such an up-and-coming talent walk out the door. I mean just yesterday they were going to promote that loser Doug Whaley from within the organization to take over for Buddy Nix when he retires. PTR lol
HurlyBurly51 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 "Indianapolis is a nice place to live?" That is the first time that has ever been said. Now that was funny!
Kelly the Dog Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 What if Andrew Luck pulls a power play on the Colts like John Elway did, and they have to pay Manning all that money, not knowing if he will be 100%? Indy doesn't look like such a great gig, although they would get a boatload in return for Luck.
26CornerBlitz Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 In this new era of the NFL, if you have a good QB in this league, you'll win. If you don't, you'll lose. Look at...the Colts. 10 straight double-digit win seasons under Manning, and without him, the worst team in the league (and a chance to draft another Manning-esque QB, as "Luck" would have it). The Colts situation this year w/o Manning uniquely underscores the point you're making in a dramatic way. But you most certainly need more than just a good QB to win on a consistent basis as a playoff/SB contender. It's an oversimplification to say that's all that is required.
apuszczalowski Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Colts were horrible until they hired Polian Drafted Manning and then made the playoffs from 2002 to 2010 after he turned the franchise around. After all this one bad season gets him fired? Particularity when the result of the bad season resulted in the ability to draft Andrew Luck? Hopefully Whaley stays right here. Fixed it What more did Polian do for them besides having Manning fall into his lap? During his tenure as the GM in Indy, they have 1 superbowl win, thats the only one Saint Polian has, and that was with one of the best QB's to ever play the game. The Indy gig should have been one of the easiest job to GM for in the NFL, the Pats continued to win the year Brady went down. The Colts were never a team to go out and sign big name Free Agents, they relied on drafting, and their drafts over the last decade have been mediocre AT BEST. The only reason the Colts are considered one of the better teams in the league was Manning, and one season where he can't play they go from playoff lock to 1st overall pick. Without manning, the Colts are a mess. Theres all these posts saying that Irsay isn't meddling, or that he would be better to work for, yet he cleaned house of the Saint polians after 1 horrible season, and rumors that they would want to trade Manning away and draft Luck, but the owner wants to keep Manning. Our GM comes out and says he has talked Ralph out of spending more money for players in FA, and he is still viewed as cheap and that Nix is just covering. And why does everyone think Manning is going anywhere? Is it possible they work something out to restructure his deal, and set things up so that Luck can come in and sit behind Manning for a few seasons before being given the team? it worked fine in GB with Favre and Rogers, and I don't see Mannings having the same kinda ego as Favre ever had that he couldn't deal with having some behind him to teach. Edited January 4, 2012 by apuszczalowski
K-9 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Fixed it What more did Polian do for them besides having Manning fall into his lap? During his tenure as the GM in Indy, they have 1 superbowl win, thats the only one Saint Polian has, and that was with one of the best QB's to ever play the game. The Indy gig should have been one of the easiest job to GM for in the NFL, the Pats continued to win the year Brady went down. The Colts were never a team to go out and sign big name Free Agents, they relied on drafting, and their drafts over the last decade have been mediocre AT BEST. The only reason the Colts are considered one of the better teams in the league was Manning, and one season where he can't play they go from playoff lock to 1st overall pick. Without manning, the Colts are a mess. Theres all these posts saying that Irsay isn't meddling, or that he would be better to work for, yet he cleaned house of the Saint polians after 1 horrible season, and rumors that they would want to trade Manning away and draft Luck, but the owner wants to keep Manning. Our GM comes out and says he has talked Ralph out of spending more money for players in FA, and he is still viewed as cheap and that Nix is just covering. And why does everyone think Manning is going anywhere? Is it possible they work something out to restructure his deal, and set things up so that Luck can come in and sit behind Manning for a few seasons before being given the team? it worked fine in GB with Favre and Rogers, and I don't see Mannings having the same kinda ego as Favre ever had that he couldn't deal with having some behind him to teach. That's certainly possible and the new CBA prevents the kind of rookie contract that would hamper that IF Manning agrees to restructure. Like you imply restructuring will be key to any scenario of Manning and Luck on the same team. If he doesn't restructure I believe that means over $50m guaranteed to the QB position. Ouch. And that would really hamper the ability to rebuild around EITHER QB. GO BILLS!!!
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Whaley is not going anywhere. Buddy Nix brought him in to take over as GM. This was clear to everyone in the NFL including Whaley. The Bills could not clean house, including Whaley. The Fans may want to clean house but it "ain't gonna happen" Whaley was a bit of coup to bring in house. Whaley is looked at as one of the up and coming executives in the NFL. His mark was placed on the Bills 2011 draft. If the organization's decision is lose Whaley or keep Nix. Nix actually will be retiring; like the rumor mill that is swirling is saying. Whaley spent years in Pittsburgh, so he is not clamoring for life in the big city. He just bought a nice house by Delaware Park. I don't think he is trying to leave. I think he knows the plan is for him to take over and he will live up to the plan. Nix isn't getting any younger and they probably already discussed the timeline for the transition. "Indianapolis is a nice place to live?" That is the first time that has ever been said. It is called Napianapolis as in ZZzZZZZZ there is nothing to do but take a Nap. But yes Whaley could take the bird in hand rather than a bird in the bush, but I'd be surprised if the Bills grant permission for an interview. They can't let Whaley go. It would be a death-nail type of brain drain, He would take his team with him and the Bills would essentially be rebuilding again. Agreed. guess it ain't Toronto.
Mr. WEO Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Fixed it What more did Polian do for them besides having Manning fall into his lap? During his tenure as the GM in Indy, they have 1 superbowl win, thats the only one Saint Polian has, and that was with one of the best QB's to ever play the game. The Indy gig should have been one of the easiest job to GM for in the NFL, the Pats continued to win the year Brady went down. The Colts were never a team to go out and sign big name Free Agents, they relied on drafting, and their drafts over the last decade have been mediocre AT BEST. The only reason the Colts are considered one of the better teams in the league was Manning, and one season where he can't play they go from playoff lock to 1st overall pick. Without manning, the Colts are a mess. Theres all these posts saying that Irsay isn't meddling, or that he would be better to work for, yet he cleaned house of the Saint polians after 1 horrible season, and rumors that they would want to trade Manning away and draft Luck, but the owner wants to keep Manning. Our GM comes out and says he has talked Ralph out of spending more money for players in FA, and he is still viewed as cheap and that Nix is just covering. And why does everyone think Manning is going anywhere? Is it possible they work something out to restructure his deal, and set things up so that Luck can come in and sit behind Manning for a few seasons before being given the team? it worked fine in GB with Favre and Rogers, and I don't see Mannings having the same kinda ego as Favre ever had that he couldn't deal with having some behind him to teach. Are really that unfamiliar with the top guys drafted to the Colts over Polian's tenure? How is that possible? Wayne, Clark, James, Mathis, Sanders, Freeney? Anyway, the pats continued to win after Brady went down because they had the best coaching in the league and a solid backup in Cassell. The Colts have an awful coaching staff and Painter as their backup. Someone finally decided to call Orlovski off of his couch and the guy strolls in and immediately wins 2 out of 3. I bet Orlovski paired with a competent staff could have won 7 or 8. But then they wouldn't be picking Luck next spring...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Aaron Schatz for Buffalo GM if Doug bolts to the Colts He wrote a book on football but would that make him qualified to run a team?
The Big Cat Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Correction: I, along with others here, hate the way the Bills are run. I hate the results, now having lost 60% of their games going back to 2001. And I love this myth being perpetuated that Indianapolis was a 1 man team and everyone else was a retread. Apparently people forget that Dwight Freeney, Reggie Wayne, Robert Mathis, Dallas Clark, Jeff Saturday, and Pierre Garcon play for this team. No, it was one guy who got them 10+ wins for 10 seasons in a row. Just one and no one else. Couldn't be the coach, whose college record at Wake Forest was horrible, wasn't at fault. Nope, couldn't be it. LOL @ Pierre Garcon being remotely relevant without Manning. And just what kind of numbers do you think Wayne and Clark would have put up with Fitz at the helm? I'm curious. Also, we've seen other Colts quarterbacks play behind that offensive line, and anyone not named Manning made them look...well...offensive. And yes, those ensembles included Jeff "nobody drafted me and even the first team to pick me up cut me and I spent my first year on the bench, but that was almost 15 years ago so nobody remembers, oh did I mention I turn 37 in June" Saturday. But to your point, yes 2 DE's, both over 30, should have been more than enough talent to carry the Colts this year.
apuszczalowski Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Are really that unfamiliar with the top guys drafted to the Colts over Polian's tenure? How is that possible? Wayne, Clark, James, Mathis, Sanders, Freeney? Anyway, the pats continued to win after Brady went down because they had the best coaching in the league and a solid backup in Cassell. The Colts have an awful coaching staff and Painter as their backup. Someone finally decided to call Orlovski off of his couch and the guy strolls in and immediately wins 2 out of 3. I bet Orlovski paired with a competent staff could have won 7 or 8. But then they wouldn't be picking Luck next spring... And whos job is it to put that coaching staff in place and to have a backup QB behind Manning? Guess Saint Polians only job is to draft the good players years ago? If Polian was any good at his job right now, they wouldn't be desperate for Luck as their new saviour right now. Think Green Bays GM was hoping Favre could tank a season so they could get the #1 pick to draft their new saviour? How about the Pats? They keep bringing in no name backups and drafted a potential starter in the middle rounds of the draft this year. I bet you could come up with a comparible list of good draft picks for any GM that has been in one place for as long as Polian has been in Indy. But during his tenure in Indy with one of the best QBs to play the game, he has managed to build a team that has won ONE Super Bowl, and appear in one other. The "team" he built went from one of the top to worst just by losing Manning LOL @ Pierre Garcon being remotely relevant without Manning. And just what kind of numbers do you think Wayne and Clark would have put up with Fitz at the helm? I'm curious. Also, we've seen other Colts quarterbacks play behind that offensive line, and anyone not named Manning made them look...well...offensive. And yes, those ensembles included Jeff "nobody drafted me and even the first team to pick me up cut me and I spent my first year on the bench, but that was almost 15 years ago so nobody remembers, oh did I mention I turn 37 in June" Saturday. But to your point, yes 2 DE's, both over 30, should have been more than enough talent to carry the Colts this year. Results with Manning and those picks = Playoffs from 2002 to 2010 Results without Manning but with those picks = Picking #1 overall in the draft Guess the other posters are right, the Colts are more then a one man team, and Saint Polian has done an incredible job making sure they can succeed if he goes down..........
The Big Cat Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 And whos job is it to put that coaching staff in place and to have a backup QB behind Manning? Guess Saint Polians only job is to draft the good players years ago? If Polian was any good at his job right now, they wouldn't be desperate for Luck as their new saviour right now. Think Green Bays GM was hoping Favre could tank a season so they could get the #1 pick to draft their new saviour? How about the Pats? They keep bringing in no name backups and drafted a potential starter in the middle rounds of the draft this year. I bet you could come up with a comparible list of good draft picks for any GM that has been in one place for as long as Polian has been in Indy. But during his tenure in Indy with one of the best QBs to play the game, he has managed to build a team that has won ONE Super Bowl, and appear in one other. The "team" he built went from one of the top to worst just by losing Manning Results with Manning and those picks = Playoffs from 2002 to 2010 Results without Manning but with those picks = Picking #1 overall in the draft Guess the other posters are right, the Colts are more then a one man team, and Saint Polian has done an incredible job making sure they can succeed if he goes down.......... Hey man, you're talking to the guy who has said (half-jokingly (...HALF)) that Peyton Manning should be in consideration for 2011 NFL MVP.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 And whos job is it to put that coaching staff in place and to have a backup QB behind Manning? Guess Saint Polians only job is to draft the good players years ago? If Polian was any good at his job right now, they wouldn't be desperate for Luck as their new saviour right now. Think Green Bays GM was hoping Favre could tank a season so they could get the #1 pick to draft their new saviour? How about the Pats? They keep bringing in no name backups and drafted a potential starter in the middle rounds of the draft this year. I bet you could come up with a comparible list of good draft picks for any GM that has been in one place for as long as Polian has been in Indy. But during his tenure in Indy with one of the best QBs to play the game, he has managed to build a team that has won ONE Super Bowl, and appear in one other. The "team" he built went from one of the top to worst just by losing Manning Results with Manning and those picks = Playoffs from 2002 to 2010 Results without Manning but with those picks = Picking #1 overall in the draft Guess the other posters are right, the Colts are more then a one man team, and Saint Polian has done an incredible job making sure they can succeed if he goes down.......... Seriously. How much worse is Curtis Painter than JP Losman and Trent Edwards? A lot of posters whine about how bad the Bills are. Yet, we still won 7 games with guys who are backup Qbs at best. The Colts lose one player and struggle to win 2 games.
Doc Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 The Colts situation this year w/o Manning uniquely underscores the point you're making in a dramatic way. But you most certainly need more than just a good QB to win on a consistent basis as a playoff/SB contender. It's an oversimplification to say that's all that is required. Obviously it's not all that's required, but it's a huge part. It's now a QB-driven league. The Bills haven't found a good/consistent one yet. What I'd like to see is how Indy does next year, if Manning returns. If they do well again, it was all him.
Buftex Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Hearing that the Bears are targeting Bill Polian as their new GM. Will be interesting, as whoever takes that job will have to be committed to Lovie Smith as their coach, for at least a season.
Best Player Available Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Not sure where all this Indy bashing is coming from. All I said was that it was a nice place to live. Can you guys say with a straight face that Buffalo is a better city to live in than Indianapolis? I've spent considerable time in Indy, including living there for about a 3-month stretch. It's not a great city. But it's new, clean, has solid suburbs, good economy, less snow, and super low cost of living. If you're a family man that wants an easy commute to work, live in the burbs, and eat at chain restaurants, it's probably a nicer option than Buffalo. (I will agree with Ryan C above, that it's a weak football city). No bashing, you and I have a different opinion. Now i was born in Buffalo and although left a long time ago, I too travel a lot. I went to a certain auto race in Indy 3 years in a row. of course that was awhile ago. I also have had business meetings in Indy and have stayed up to 4 days at a time. if you want to say Indy is a better place than Buffalo, thats your opinion and I'm fine with it. Personally the lake, and river waterfront are pretty nice places in the summer Buffalo last summer was awesome. We spent 4 weeks there.. Unless the Bills are playing in Buffalo in January, I never go to Buffalo unless for family business The winters are dismal. From what I hear though its been pretty mild so far. I am a Buffalo booster. Indy is not a place I would live. Maybe raising a family there is better than what? Okay you love it. its yours. here's a little Indy 500 story as our supplies ran low a member of our party made a beer run(in the 90's)he was promptly robbed at gunpoint, of course he had no idea where he was, but did say it was a place(neighborhood) he would never go back to. Yep, it happens every day in every city. But I have zero warm and fuzzy feelings about Indy or Indiana for the matter. But that just me. Your mileage may vary. Edited January 4, 2012 by Best Player Available
Ramius Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 The problem with the Colts was that their coaching staff this season was historically bad. Peyton was their OC, so they lost both a top-notch QB and a top-notch OC when he got hurt. There's talent on that team, but the coaches are too dumb to make anything of it. The biggest problem in Indy was Jim Caldwell. What exactly did he do to deserve a coaching job besides be Tony Dungy's little butt buddy? His hire was one of the biggest examples of blatant cronyism i've ever seen. Caldwell might be one of the worst coaches in history. He's rich kotite bad.
Buftex Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Indy Colts Blog Wow, is Jerry Sullivan moonlighting for beer money? PTR PTR, heard Mortenson, IIRC (or perhaps Schefter) kind of say the same thing...Indy owner was kind of feeling like Polian was getting a little "too comfortable" as king of the castle, wasn't particularly pleasent toward the owner. Whoever it was, (Mort or Schefter) kind of compared the situation to Bowlan and Shannahan in Denver...the team was kind of bottoming out, and the owner just said "okay, I want my team back". Also heard tha Polian was saying things to the media, about Manning, that weren't true...issues such as failing a physical, and talking with Manning about how he would feel about the Colts drafting Luck...Payton denies that he took a physical, and is confident he would pass one (fwiw), and also says he and Polian never spoke about drafting Luck, or any other QB for that matter. I am not clear as to whether Polian was leaing toward keeping, or letting Manning go. I suppose, at 2-14, with the first pick in the draft, it would be as good a time as there would be, to make a change.
LABills08 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 I hear both sides of the Doug Whaley argument, but we're talking about the opportunity for him to be GM next season, on a franchise that is well positioned for a new GM to take over and make his mark. This is the real world, if he has the choice between waiting until Nix retires or becoming a GM immediately (and taking the salary that comes with it), why would he hold off? It also leads me to ask----Why the hell did the Bills not just appoint him GM outright? Why give the reigns to Nix? Its not like Nix had prior GM experience either. But whatever. I need to stop trying to understand why the Bills do certain things.
1B4IDie Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 I hear both sides of the Doug Whaley argument, but we're talking about the opportunity for him to be GM next season, on a franchise that is well positioned for a new GM to take over and make his mark. This is the real world, if he has the choice between waiting until Nix retires or becoming a GM immediately (and taking the salary that comes with it), why would he hold off? It also leads me to ask----Why the hell did the Bills not just appoint him GM outright? Why give the reigns to Nix? Its not like Nix had prior GM experience either. But whatever. I need to stop trying to understand why the Bills do certain things. It's real simple to imagine "the plan". This plan can be imagined and vaguely makes sense it could also be just complete fallacy. The story put together by Bills' fans is something like this: Wilson knows Nix from way back. Wilson knew his house was a mess and he had no football people in it anymore. He went and got a football person he trusts, and asked him to find a guy that is a football guy that can take over as GM. Nix recruited Whaley, again, a bit of coup as Whaley was looked at in the small circle of NFL executives as an up and comer. Nix is re-orging the mess in the executive suite at One Bills Drive as close to what the other 31 teams have in place as he can. Then will step down to the heir apparent. Wilson needed help connecting the dots from football people in 1990 to football people in 2011 and Nix was the man for the job. Again I think that narrative that is pretty easy to piece together but who knows if its true. I for one can see some merit to the story.
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