Deion Branch and Lee Evans

[thewildrabbit]

wow you guys are amazing, lee can run any route, was a great college player, a great pro for multiple years, great hands..and oh ya, really fast.

 

I would say no current reciever on our roster has those traits. And fitz neve had a complete season with lee, ever. So how do you all know if he can get him the ball? he got the ball deep to him several times before in limited opportunities.

 

again, what short memories most of you have. And you think because trent edwards never threw him the ball that he cant run a slant or drag route? Laughable

 

Qbs need time to gel with a reciever like losman did with evans, since then hes always had a merry go round of bad qb's or been hurt.

 

id gladly have him back

You are right, Evans was a great player when you had a QB like Bledsoe or JP with a big gun to throw deep. Plus you had a better line that could hold blocks for more then 3 seconds.

 

The others are also right tho, this offense under Gailey can't use Lee Evans very often, this offense doesn't throw deep enough to utilize his deep speed.

 

I think this year the Bills could have really used Evans, considering all the injuries to the Bills WR corps.

 

 

My take is Evans wouldn't come back to Buffalo, I'd think he would want a ring at this point

[NoSaint]

You are right, Evans was a great player when you had a QB like Bledsoe or JP with a big gun to throw deep. Plus you had a better line that could hold blocks for more then 3 seconds.

 

The others are also right tho, this offense under Gailey can't use Lee Evans very often, this offense doesn't throw deep enough to utilize his deep speed.

 

I think this year the Bills could have really used Evans, considering all the injuries to the Bills WR corps.

 

 

My take is Evans wouldn't come back to Buffalo, I'd think he would want a ring at this point

 

He seemed to like demaryius Thomas as a college coach. I think he'd be down for speed and stretching the field if the right talent was there and the line/qb could support it. I'd chalk the "no deep threat wanted" up with "doesn't use a TE" even though he used Tony g very well. Maybe not a top priority but I think he'd love to have it.

[Dragonborn10]

If Evans is cut then he is a FA. Why the hell would he want to come back? Branch went back to play for the best organization in the game with the arguably the best QB of all time. He is better off going to Arizona, New England, Houston, or San Francisco to play opposite other great pass cathcers. Hell even Indianapolis wouldn't be bad with a healthy Manning/Luck and Wayne/Clark.

[BringBackFergy]

If Evans is cut then he is a FA. Why the hell would he want to come back? Branch went back to play for the best organization in the game with the arguably the best QB of all time. He is better off going to Arizona, New England, Houston, or San Francisco to play opposite other great pass cathcers. Hell even Indianapolis wouldn't be bad with a healthy Manning/Luck and Wayne/Clark.

Why would Stevie Johnson want to stay in Bflo? Teammates, familiarity with the region, and maybe no other team expresses an interest.

[Dragonborn10]

Why would Stevie Johnson want to stay in Bflo? Teammates, familiarity with the region, and maybe no other team expresses an interest.

Winfield, Pat Williams, Clements, Greer, hell even go back to Will Wolford. They all had good teammates, were familiar with the region, and none of them chose to stay. You think Stevie is going to give the Bills a home town discount because of their rich tradition of going to the playoffs year after year, being a contender for the SB, with a top notch coaching staff, well run organization, and top tier QB????

[1B4IDie]

Lee Evans wasn't a "great" pro WR for multiple years. He had a couple real good years and one great year. My criteria for a great WR is one that gets at 6 receptions per game, over 100 yards, and has over 10 TD's in a year.

 

Evans stats:

 

Year / Over 6 receptions/game /over 100 yds /10+ TD's

 

2004 / 2 / 2 / 0

2005 / 0 / 2 / 0

2006 / 6 / 3 / 0

2007 / 2 / 2 / 0

2008 / 3 / 4 / 0

2009 / 0 / 0 / 0

2010 / 1 / 1 / 0

 

 

I did forget cj for a minute there. For some reason victor Cruz ended as the yardage leader in my head. Which would have left cj just shy. My mistake.

 

Colston 80 - 1100 - 8

Nelson 68 - 1200 - 15

Wallace 72- 1200 -8

Cruz 82 - 1500 - 9

Welker 122 - 1500 - 9

 

I think my point stands - 96 - 1600+ and 10 are out of this world numbers. Breaking those benchmarks isn't just great receiver numbers, they are career bests for once in a generation type players. These are excerpts from the top handful of receivers many of which were on essentially record breaking offenses this year. Go over history and see how truly rare 96-1600-10 really would be. I still bet CJ, and rice are 2 of a VERY small number if any others to clear those three benchmarks. I also maintain 80-1200-8 is a much more realistic cutoff for great players... What, 4 receivers and the two greatest seasons ever put up by tightends would have hit those in a record breaking year for the league? We had 4 guys fighting for Marinos passing record- I'm not banking on that being the norm yet and certainly wasn't over the years we are talking about with lee.

 

I interpreted the post differently. I think TT did a great job of breaking down Lee Evans impact on the game.

 

I'd day 6 catches for 100 yards and a TD is a good benchmark for a WR.

 

A "#1 WR" in the NFL should have, say, 5-10 games a season with numbers like that.

 

Not all 16.

 

So if you look at Lee Evans, lets call them, "impact stats" you can see Lee Evans had very little statistical impact on games, (Yes he was the most amazing decoy in NFL history) but he never actually contributed much to moving the chains or getting in the end zone (Which I would say is much more important for a "#1" WR than being a decoy for the "#2")

 

(If TrippleThreat came up with his measuring stick on his own {6rec,100yards,1TD) he should publish an article about this. Especially for Fantasy Football, I would like to see all the NFL WRs measured against this stick over the last 3 years and see who is constantly a stud. There is less turnover year over year in the Top WRs as compared to the Top RBs so being able to pick the stud WRs that have more "Impact games" would be a huge advantage. Seriously you should write something for footballguys or fantasyshark. I'm sure they would run with it.)

Edited January 4, 2012 by Why So Serious?

[Orton's Arm]

I'll see yours and go all in with Joe Dufek, Ed Rutkowski (disaster QB in '68), and Harvey Johnson.

 

This is like that scene in Jaws where they get drunk and compare scars.

 

GO BILLS!!!

In that case, let's compare more recent scars which have yet to fully heal. I'll take three Marv-related scars: Donte Whitner, John McCargo, Marshawn Lynch.

 

On another matter, Lee Evans provides a very good #2 threat/deep burner. If a defense puts a CB on an island against him, he will sometimes punish the CB by burning him deep. He serves the same general purpose as Alvin Harper, Peerless Price (the first time around), John Taylor, and other #2 WRs known primarily for their speed. Any coaching staff which tries making him into a #1 WR is setting itself up for failure, and the fan base up for disillusionment. Any time you take a deep burner/#2 WR and try to make him into something more than he is (a #1) you will encounter this problem.

 

Defenses haven't exactly bent over backwards to respect the Bills' deep passing game, so adding someone like Evans seems tempting. But it's not as though the lack of a deep passing game is because Gailey woke up one morning and said, "Deep threat, shmeep threat." The causes are deeper: the offensive line has often failed to pass protect well enough to allow deep threats to develop. Even if that problem were solved, Fitz is at his most erratic and inaccurate when trying to throw the ball deep. Sure, some of his deep throws will be on the money. Most deep throws will not be. This means a player like Evans will help the Bills less than he would have helped a team with a QB who was decent at throwing intermediate and deep passes.

[The Big Cat]

evans caught and outfought a ton of guys for jump balls over the years. And your missing the point, which is that his qb completely sucked for 3 years! he did great with bledsoe and losman, when fitz came in, TO took most of the deep ball throws away from him, and then he got hurt. you guys just cant seem to keep track of all the things that took place and put 2 and 2 together, you just say one simple catch phrase for every player like "cant go over the middle"(evans) "needs a better line"(edwards) or "cant throw deep"(fitz)

 

Evans also is not undersized, hes bigger than steve smith and santonio holmes and faster than both. I wish there was a year he could play un injured and with a good qb, if anything just to shut you guys up. Mark my words, when evans is healthy and in the line up for a while, hell make a come back...and youll all wish we still had him.

 

I know a certain Chandler Gailey who will disagree with you (publicly) about whether or not Lee Evans is a full-package route runner.

 

**ALSO**

 

I keep reading Fitz doesn't have the "arm" to throw deep. This is false. His arm isn't the problem. Fitz doesn't have any touch on his deep ball. If I'm him, now that they're not locked out, I spend every waking moment in the Bills practice facility between now and September, with any and all receivers (and Fred and CJ) that will join him, and have them run nothing but go routes. He needs tot throw this pass 100 x a day for two months in the off season. For real.

 

It's not a fatal flaw, an un-fixable ill. Like pro hoops players looking to put the three-pointer into their arsenal, Fitz--through repetition--can get his deep ball where it needs to be.

[BuffaloBillsForever]

You can tell when Buddy Nix was describing Lee Evans as a football player he didn't think too highly of him at the current stage in his career and you know what? Buddy Nix was absolutely correct.

 

I don't think there is any way he would bring him back and there is really nothing that he would add. His one trick pony and being effective on that one route is all but gone.

[1B4IDie]

I know a certain Chandler Gailey who will disagree with you (publicly) about whether or not Lee Evans is a full-package route runner.

 

**ALSO**

 

I keep reading Fitz doesn't have the "arm" to throw deep. This is false. His arm isn't the problem. Fitz doesn't have any touch on his deep ball. If I'm him, now that they're not locked out, I spend every waking moment in the Bills practice facility between now and September, with any and all receivers (and Fred and CJ) that will join him, and have them run nothing but go routes. He needs tot throw this pass 100 x a day for two months in the off season. For real.

 

It's not a fatal flaw, an un-fixable ill. Like pro hoops players looking to put the three-pointer into their arsenal, Fitz--through repetition--can get his deep ball where it needs to be.

 

Boo and Yah

 

Seriously Fitz can throw the ball 65+ yards in the air no problem. It is not a "strength" problem. It is throwing a catchable ball anywhere near the receiver and knowing when to throw a rainbow way out in front of the receiver and when to throw it on a line to the spot the receiver is going to run to; which you can summarize as "touch."

 

And yes reps, reps, reps and more reps with the WRs can improve this tremendously. With no hold out, and with his perceived work ethic i.e. organizing "Camp Fitz in Arizona." It is possible that this improves.

 

Hopefully they sign his best WR as he requested. Not signing a back to back 1,000 yard receiver because he celebrates too hard, is really going to be hard to choke when he signs with San Franciso to complement Crabtree or New Orleans to replace Meachum for a cheap $5-6M a season. Man that would just be a shame. His celebrations won't seem so bad when your WR core is Donald "Never Will Be" Jones, Marcus "Never Was" Easley, Derek "I'm not Mario" Haggan, and David "I'm now the best WR?" Nelson.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Why So Serious?

[The Big Cat]

Boo and Yah

 

Seriously Fitz can throw the ball 65+ yards in the air no problem. It is not a "strength" problem. It is throwing a catchable ball anywhere near the receiver and knowing when to throw a rainbow way out in front of the receiver and when to throw it on a line to the spot the receiver is going to run to; which you can summarize as "touch."

 

And yes reps, reps, reps and more reps with the WRs can improve this tremendously. With no hold out, and with his perceived work ethic i.e. organizing "Camp Fitz in Arizona." It is possible that this improves.

 

Hopefully they sign his best WR as he requested. Not signing a back to back 1,000 yard receiver because he celebrates too hard, is really going to be hard to choke when he signs with San Franciso to complement Crabtree or New Orleans to replace Meachum for a cheap $5-6M a season. Man that would just be a shame. His celebrations won't seem so bad when your WR core is Donald "Never Will Be" Jones, Marcus "Never Was" Easley, Derek "I'm not Mario" Haggan, and David "I'm now the best WR?" Nelson.

 

It's ultimately a mechanics issue.

 

Fitz does NOT have consistently good mechanics, and he does not have consistently BAD mechanics. He's got a mixture of both. Newsflash: he was a Harvard grad. He hasn't been a professional quarterback since the age of 13. He's naturally gifted, but has his some serious drawbacks. With the right coaching and with repeptition, these issues CAN be fixed.

 

I've heard the QB's coach is also on the hot seat. Fitz is the guy, he knows he's the guy. I'm confident he'll get with the right people and get this stuff fixed in the offseason.

[Turbosrrgood]

The Pats traded Branch away and got him back....cheaper than before I believe.

 

Since Lee Evans has pretty much stunk the joint up in Baltimore, would he have any interest in coming back to Buffalo for a year or two?? I assume he will be cut by Baltimore, and I assume we may be in need of a veteran deep threat WR...makes sense to me.

 

Be easy on me when attacking...I'm still hung over from a late night of celebrating the firing of "Gedwards"

 

 

I wouldn't assume he will get cut, Baltimore traded away a decent pick to get him.

 

Personally I wouldn't want him back, he's older, a step slower, and I don't see how he fits into Gailey's offense...

 

Boo and Yah

 

Seriously Fitz can throw the ball 65+ yards in the air no problem. It is not a "strength" problem. It is throwing a catchable ball anywhere near the receiver and knowing when to throw a rainbow way out in front of the receiver and when to throw it on a line to the spot the receiver is going to run to; which you can summarize as "touch."

 

And yes reps, reps, reps and more reps with the WRs can improve this tremendously. With no hold out, and with his perceived work ethic i.e. organizing "Camp Fitz in Arizona." It is possible that this improves.

 

Hopefully they sign his best WR as he requested. Not signing a back to back 1,000 yard receiver because he celebrates too hard, is really going to be hard to choke when he signs with San Franciso to complement Crabtree or New Orleans to replace Meachum for a cheap $5-6M a season. Man that would just be a shame. His celebrations won't seem so bad when your WR core is Donald "Never Will Be" Jones, Marcus "Never Was" Easley, Derek "I'm not Mario" Haggan, and David "I'm now the best WR?" Nelson.

 

 

You said everything I was thinking (with better humor), now I have nothing to post...

Edited January 4, 2012 by Turbosrrgood

[The Big Cat]

I wouldn't assume he will get cut, Baltimore traded away a decent pick to get him.

 

Personally I wouldn't want him back, he's older, a step slower, and I don't see how he fits into Gailey's offense...

 

 

 

 

You said everything I was thinking (with better humor), now I have nothing to post...

 

I also snickered at Derek "I'm not Mario" Hagan and David "I'm the best receiver now?" Nelson. Nicely done, WSS!

[White Linen]

Atleast 96 catches for 1600 yards and 10 tds? That's had to have been done what, 5 times ever? I'm not going to look for real but that's like Jerry rice record season there. No ones cleared all three of those in the last year or two (victor Cruz being closest this year but short on all 3, and I think roddy white had catches and maybe tds but def not yards last year).

 

Heck - shave those to 5-75-8 and over a season it's 80 for 1200 yards (15 per) and 8 tds which is pretty great and 20% shy of your numbers (roughly) - even those are GREAT numbers.

 

I didn't make my point clear enough. I don't think that a great receiver should average 100 yards per game, 6 catches per game, and 10 TD's per year. I just think that in order to be great these marks have to be hit at a higher rate than Lee ever did.