Cheddar's Dad Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 The size and speed of OLBs are different regarding 43 vs. 34 schemes. In a 34 scheme, you want your OLBs to be bigger, 6'4", 250-260 lbs. Bigger here also means a little slower. OLBs in a 43 defense can be a little smaller but are generally faster. The knock on Von Miller, before the draft, was that at 235/240, he could not set the edge for the defense. But in Denver's 43, he does very well. This year, if Buffalo moves to the 43, Zack Brown, OLB from North Carolina becomes very very interesting as our possible first round pick. Brown is very instinctive. He is 6'2+", 230 lbs and runs an estimated 4.45 forty. Outside pass rusher baby. There he is.
Bob in STL Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 The size and speed of OLBs are different regarding 43 vs. 34 schemes. In a 34 scheme, you want your OLBs to be bigger, 6'4", 250-260 lbs. Bigger here also means a little slower. OLBs in a 43 defense can be a little smaller but are generally faster. The knock on Von Miller, before the draft, was that at 235/240, he could not set the edge for the defense. But in Denver's 43, he does very well. This year, if Buffalo moves to the 43, Zack Brown, OLB from North Carolina becomes very very interesting as our possible first round pick. Brown is very instinctive. He is 6'2+", 230 lbs and runs an estimated 4.45 forty. Outside pass rusher baby. There he is. Maybin is listed at 6'4" 240, which he is not. Von miller is listed at 6'3" 245, and he appears much more stout than Maybin. Zack Brown at 6"2" and 230 lbs appears to be Maybin sized. Sounds like another big risk.
CBD Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 This year, if Buffalo moves to the 43, Zack Brown, OLB from North Carolina becomes very very interesting as our possible first round pick. Brown is very instinctive. He is 6'2+", 230 lbs and runs an estimated 4.45 forty. Outside pass rusher baby. There he is. Hard to consider a guy with only 5.5 collegiate sacks as someone who can be counted on as an NFL pass rusher. But if a move to the 43 happens, OLBs in a 43 aren't typically counted on to supply the pass rush so I'm not sure that would matter. I can't see them making the switch to the 43 without planning on bringing in one if not two DEs as Dwan Edwards and Chris Kelsay will not be sufficient in that type of defense. Therefore, I can't see them making the switch at all.
Cheddar's Dad Posted January 3, 2012 Author Posted January 3, 2012 Zack Brown at 6"2" and 230 lbs appears to be Maybin sized. Sounds like another big risk. Buffalo tried to fit Maybin into a 34 scheme and he could not set the edge which OLBs in the 34 have to do. Additionally, when rushing, Maybin had to beat the size and strength of the OT which he, most often, could not do. In a 43, Maybin may have been good. But Maybin was a one trick pony speed rusher and likely would have been bad in coverage which a 43 and 34 OLB must be able to do. With the Jets 34, he's only in on obvious passing downs for a reason. Brown is a much more complete LB, able to cover, run defend, and rush. He's always around the football. And, again, we're talking 43 scheme here. With 43 DEs going head to head with the OT, the 43 rush linebacker need only to manuever around the big bodies to the QB. Most early draft boards have Brown going in the top half of Rd. 1 and being the first OLB off the board,(sorry Courtney Upshaw fans).
NoSaint Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 Maybin is listed at 6'4" 240, which he is not. Von miller is listed at 6'3" 245, and he appears much more stout than Maybin. Zack Brown at 6"2" and 230 lbs appears to be Maybin sized. Sounds like another big risk. Maybin played a different position and had a 4.7 40
CSBill Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 Zack brown may fall into the 2nd round. Another North Carolina player considered a first round pick. Why haven't they won like the last three national championships?
Turbosrrgood Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 Hard to consider a guy with only 5.5 collegiate sacks as someone who can be counted on as an NFL pass rusher. But if a move to the 43 happens, OLBs in a 43 aren't typically counted on to supply the pass rush so I'm not sure that would matter. I can't see them making the switch to the 43 without planning on bringing in one if not two DEs as Dwan Edwards and Chris Kelsay will not be sufficient in that type of defense. Therefore, I can't see them making the switch at all. Yeah that's the big question mark...If the Bills go to a base 4-3 full time, their biggest need will become a rushing DE. Kelsay can play one end, and get a push on the pocket, but they need a true pass rusher to play the other side. If they go to a 4-3 the LB's are much less important when it comes to the pass rush, but hugely important in coverage and stopping the run. The Bills have NO good options on the roster for 4-3 OLB's IMO. OLB's will be high on the Bills wish list regardless of what scheme they use, but it could make a huge difference in who they select.
Jauronimo Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 Yeah that's the big question mark...If the Bills go to a base 4-3 full time, their biggest need will become a rushing DE. Kelsay can play one end, and get a push on the pocket, but they need a true pass rusher to play the other side. If they go to a 4-3 the LB's are much less important when it comes to the pass rush, but hugely important in coverage and stopping the run. The Bills have NO good options on the roster for 4-3 OLB's IMO. OLB's will be high on the Bills wish list regardless of what scheme they use, but it could make a huge difference in who they select. I think the answer is more wildcat, and I'm not just talking offense. Defensive wildcat is cutting edge stuff. Can you imagine the nose tackle and corner switching spots right before the snap? It will confuse the hell out of everyone. We'll see how effective B Marshall and Welker are with KW jamming them at the line. And no way Mangold deals with McKelvins speed, NO WAY!
1billsfan Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Yeah that's the big question mark...If the Bills go to a base 4-3 full time, their biggest need will become a rushing DE. Kelsay can play one end, and get a push on the pocket, but they need a true pass rusher to play the other side. If they go to a 4-3 the LB's are much less important when it comes to the pass rush, but hugely important in coverage and stopping the run. The Bills have NO good options on the roster for 4-3 OLB's IMO. OLB's will be high on the Bills wish list regardless of what scheme they use, but it could make a huge difference in who they select. That's why they need to take a good look at either Nick Perry or Melvin Ingram. Both these players look like great 4-3 pass rushing DE prospects. As for the 4-3 OLB, Moats could be the answer since he has the size and he's made a lot of big plays for the little time he's been on the field. Regarding Zach Brown in the OP, he looked like a real dud in his bowl game. Edited January 3, 2012 by 1billsfan
cage Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 Maybin is listed at 6'4" 240, which he is not. Von miller is listed at 6'3" 245, and he appears much more stout than Maybin. Zack Brown at 6"2" and 230 lbs appears to be Maybin sized. Sounds like another big risk. You said it for me... exactly what I was thinking when I read this post
Turbosrrgood Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) That's why they need to take a good look at either Nick Perry or Melvin Ingram. Both these players look like great 4-3 pass rushing DE prospects. As for the 4-3 OLB, Moats could be the answer since he has the size and he's made a lot of big plays for the little time he's been on the field. Regarding Zach Brown in the OP, he looked like a real dud in his bowl game. I'll take your word on the prospects, for all the football I watch, I admittedly don't know a ton about the DE prospects this year. I do know the Bills should strongly consider them though... As far as Moats goes I don't ever see him succeeding at LB, especially in a 4-3. He one "upside" IMO, an ability to occasionally put pressure on the QB. In the open field he is a mess, takes poor lines, and is a very poor tackler. If a blocker engages him he almost never breaks free. I think the only place he would have a chance is as a situational DE, but probably a backup. Just my opinion though, I could be wrong. Keep making the switch to the 3-4. I'm with you on that, but with Wanny as the new DC it looks like we may be flip flopping back to a 4-3... Edited January 3, 2012 by Turbosrrgood
1billsfan Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) I'll take your word on the prospects, for all the football I watch, I admittedly don't know a ton about the DE prospects this year. I do know the Bills should strongly consider them though... As far as Moats goes I don't ever see him succeeding at LB, especially in a 4-3. He one "upside" IMO, an ability to occasionally put pressure on the QB. In the open field he is a mess, takes poor lines, and is a very poor tackler. If a blocker engages him he almost never breaks free. I think the only place he would have a chance is as a situational DE, but probably a backup. Just my opinion though, I could be wrong. I'm with you on that, but with Wanny as the new DC it looks like we may be flip flopping back to a 4-3... At this point I'm going off of Bills' needs, GBN Report of the top players and these player's youtube videos....LOL My draft wish is that the Bills trade up for RG III, but if that doesn't happen it has to be a three down pass rushing monster that we're looking for. Here's a couple of links to the players (with video)... http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=83979&draftyear=2012&genpos=DE http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=69140&draftyear=2012&genpos=OLB Edited January 3, 2012 by 1billsfan
Turbosrrgood Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 At this point I'm going off of Bills' needs, GBN Report of the top players and these player's youtube videos....LOL My draft wish is that the Bills trade up for RG III, but if that doesn't happen it has to be a three down pass rushing monster that we're looking for. Yeah I hear you. If we could get RG3 or Blackmon that would be amazing, but I doubt we will. A franchise pass rusher has to be high on the list wants after that...
K-9 Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 I think the answer is more wildcat, and I'm not just talking offense. Defensive wildcat is cutting edge stuff. Can you imagine the nose tackle and corner switching spots right before the snap? It will confuse the hell out of everyone. We'll see how effective B Marshall and Welker are with KW jamming them at the line. And no way Mangold deals with McKelvins speed, NO WAY! The front seven becomes the back seven. This will be revolutionary stuff. And it starts in Buffalo. Like wings. GO BILLS!!!
Webster Guy Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 If we draft a 230 lb guy to beat NFL tackles then we deserve another losing season.
Cheddar's Dad Posted January 3, 2012 Author Posted January 3, 2012 If the Bills go to a base 4-3 full time, their biggest need will become a rushing DE. C'man man. Ever hear of the blitz? Some very good teams do it all the time sometimes using safeties. I agree, it would be great to get a rushing DE. But name one that is worthy of a top half of the first round pick. Some say Couples. But I've read that NC converted him from DT to DE this year and he did not do as well with the move. This is my vision. Williams and Darius at DT with Shep at MLB. Shep is a thumper. He and the tackles make us strong in the middle. Additionally, both Williams and Darious can rush the passer, something that would rattle Brady since he likes to step up into the pocket (another reason I think we're going 43). At OLB, we have Barnett and Zack Brown. That combo gives us strength in the middle and speed on the outside. Doesn't that intrigue you just a little bit?
BringMe Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 I could be wrong, but I think Moats played 43 DE in college
jjmac Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 Maybin is listed at 6'4" 240, which he is not. Von miller is listed at 6'3" 245, and he appears much more stout than Maybin. Zack Brown at 6"2" and 230 lbs appears to be Maybin sized. Sounds like another big risk. But aren't we looking at smaller, more athletic LBs in a 4-3? Any way, I made my mock draft today, and not only did I have Brown in the 1st, I had Ronnell Lewis from Oklahoma (6-2, 237) in the 2nd.
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