Do We Really Have That Many Holes

[CardinalScotts]

Defense: Byrd, Barnett, Wilson, Kelsay(DE), A.Williams. All fine football players.

Offense: Stevie is good, Nelson is Good, Chandler is good, levitre is good, wood is good, urbik is good, pears held his own all year.

 

I'm not seeing holes at all but two positions. Elaborate please.

 

OFFENSE: Nelson does not go into the good pile, when everyone is healthy he's okay. Broke the 60 yard barrier in games 1-2-3 then after guys were injured he broke it once in the last 13. He is a number 4 or 5 receiver who is good in the red zone. For the red zone reason we have to keep him, but his yards after catch is 90th and for a guy who can't get deep yards after catch is huge. Too often against other teams nickle or dime DB's who can't get open.

Chandler is very much like Nelson only to tall for LB's. He's a descent enough player but look how good tight ends can dominate a game. Jones-Roosevelt-Brad Smith at WR-Ravelle Martin-and Mike Causssin- Lee Smith- these guys aren't even NFL players.

 

DEFENSE: We have two linebackers on the entire roster in Barnett and Sheppard. The defensive line also has two players in Dareus and Williams, Dwan Edwards unless you have 10 other really good players is no factor. Byrd had a great year, Williams is going to be really good. I like what Rogers showed as well. With a pass rush Florence is a good DB without one he's not very good. Also I like the guy but George Wilson can not be the strong safety next year he's not good enough.

[VirginiaMike]

Clearly we need depth, but I don't see many positions of glaring weakness. OLB is a hole and maybe DE if we go 4-3, but what else? On offense another top WR would be nice and possibly an upgrade at QB, but I don't see either as a gaping hole. What are all these holes I keep hearing about?

The Bills have needs in the following areas - in this order:

1. Wide receiver with speed

2. Pass rushing OLB or DEnd (depending upon if they stay 3-4 or go 4-3

3. Cornerback

4. Long term QB solution

5. O-Tackle depth

[....lybob]

It's Not so much that the Bills are full of holes but that they lack those 5 probowl type guys that the better teams have- superbowl Bills have Bruce Smith top 2, Thurman Thomas top 3, Kelly, Reed, Bennett, Hull, all top 5 at their positions, Conlan, Wolford, Ballard, Talley, Odomes,Lofton, all at least top 10 And I'm probably leaving a couple guys out.

 

 

Today Bills- Top five guys Jackson, Wood, Williams if Healthy

 

top Ten guys- Levitre, Wilson, Byrd, Dareus

 

Top 20 Johnson, Fitz, Barnett,

 

Dareus has the potential to be something special, If Bell could stay on the field maybe he's a top ten OT, Johnson too could move up if he matures - The Bills need to get Healthy and they need two or three difference makers at DE, LB, and WR

[jcbillsfan]

Not sure what else the o line has to do to get some respect. They allow very few sacks(weather it is the system or not, guess what the system isn't changing) and they were very strong running hte ball with both backs.

[BillsVet]

Not sure what else the o line has to do to get some respect. They allow very few sacks(weather it is the system or not, guess what the system isn't changing) and they were very strong running hte ball with both backs.

 

How about giving the HC confidence to call some 5 or 7 step drops? Maybe allow the QB to run play action and turn his back to the LOS? The play-calling is dictated more by the resources at the HC's disposal than we think.

 

What is not seen is what the problem is with regard to the OL. Edge protection from good rushers is not good enough, despite the much referred to sacks allowed statistic. Fitzpatrick would be hit more frequently if it weren't for Gailey running an offense predicated on quick throws.

[jcbillsfan]

How about giving the HC confidence to call some 5 or 7 step drops? Maybe allow the QB to run play action and turn his back to the LOS? The play-calling is dictated more by the resources at the HC's disposal than we think.

 

What is not seen is what the problem is with regard to the OL. Edge protection from good rushers is not good enough, despite the much referred to sacks allowed statistic. Fitzpatrick would be hit more frequently if it weren't for Gailey running an offense predicated on quick throws.

But that is the offense he ran at kc as well. He is committed to that system. at least untill he has a defense that can hold a team under 30 points

[Mike in Syracuse]

Really?

 

the only position on defense thaat they dont need is DT

 

the only position on offense they dont need is RB

 

OT is a gaping hole that most fans just dont want to admit or are delusional enough to think is a strength

 

WR is a huge need and an even bigger need if they dont resign Stevie

 

 

they could use a new head coach as well but that wont happen until next offseason unfortunately

 

Your knowledge and understanding of football is bad....really bad.

[Turbosrrgood]

Clearly we need depth, but I don't see many positions of glaring weakness. OLB is a hole and maybe DE if we go 4-3, but what else? On offense another top WR would be nice and possibly an upgrade at QB, but I don't see either as a gaping hole. What are all these holes I keep hearing about?

 

 

Didn't you answer your own question? OLB, DE, WR, QB...

 

We shouldn't understate that "OLB" part either. We aren't just short 1 capable starter, we don't have a single healthy starting quality OLB on the entire team, let alone depth. I'm not counting Merriman until he is healthy, I like Kelsay, but he is better on the line and will play there for Wanny. Moats is just bad, he can occasionally provide a small amount of pressure, but disappears against the run.

 

If Stevie isn't signed, the WR position would be equally lacking...That was fully evident when he was benched last week and the "explosive" offense withered and died. The Bills may have accidentally given him contract leverage by doing that...

 

To your point though (I think), it is conceivable that the Bills could fix these "holes" in the off season.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Turbosrrgood

[Dorkington]

A team that loses 7 games in a row a year after losing 8 games in a row, very much has holes at a great many positions. This is not just a depth issue.

[CodeMonkey]

LB is full of holes.

D-line could use an end.

DBs can't be fully judged until pass rush improves.

O-line is a player away.

RB is solid

WR needs another playmaker, two if we lose SJ

QB can be better but not the train wreck some make it out to be.

 

So we aren't that far away.

 

PTR

 

 

I count at least 5 starters in your list. How many successful drafts is that, assuming "build through the draft" is still in effect?

 

 

Just 5? Lets be realistic. No team has 22 pro bowlers starting.

 

On D: Wilson, Byrd, Dareus, Kyle Williams, Dwan Edwards for sure.

 

On O: Fitz, Jackson/CJ, Wood, Levitre, Chandler, SJ (if he stays). That's 11.

 

Now add Pears, Bell/Hairston, Urbik, Sheppard, Aaron Williams, Carrington/Spencer Johnson and Florence. That's 18 starters in my book.

 

PTR

I think you misunderstood my post. Looking at your original post:

LB is full of holes. - I counted as 2 starters needed

D-line could use an end. - 1 starter needed

O-line is a player away. - 1 starter needed

WR needs another playmaker, two if we lose SJ - 1 starter needed, 2 if they don't resign SJ

 

That made at least 5 starters that in your mind are still needed by the Bills.

Then you followed that up with

So we aren't that far away.

So my question to you was/is, if you think the Bills need at least 5 starters, how many good drafts will that take to fill?

Do you think, for example, that year 3 of the rebuild process (i.e. next season) can fill that many positions? If not, how many more years?

[Dorkington]

5 more starters would take us about 5 more years. But by then we'd lose 8 of our 11 current quality starters.

[Erik]

LT is a problem...I don't think Hairston is ready and Bell is too injury prone to invest in. I'm fine with all of the other guys on the line.

[Rob's House]

A team that loses 7 games in a row a year after losing 8 games in a row, very much has holes at a great many positions. This is not just a depth issue.

During that stretch we had holes at DT, RB, C, OT, OG, and CB. All of those holes get filled by guys getting healthy. The point is, as of right now (assuming SJ & Bell return) at what positions do we have gaping holes rather than just a need for quality back ups.

 

I would argue that keeping Hangartner (depth) would have made a huge difference simply because the line would not have been so severely disrupted when Wood went down.

[PromoTheRobot]

I think you misunderstood my post. Looking at your original post:

LB is full of holes. - I counted as 2 starters needed

D-line could use an end. - 1 starter needed

O-line is a player away. - 1 starter needed

WR needs another playmaker, two if we lose SJ - 1 starter needed, 2 if they don't resign SJ

 

That made at least 5 starters that in your mind are still needed by the Bills.

Then you followed that up with

So we aren't that far away.

So my question to you was/is, if you think the Bills need at least 5 starters, how many good drafts will that take to fill?

Do you think, for example, that year 3 of the rebuild process (i.e. next season) can fill that many positions? If not, how many more years?

I did get it backwards. Sorry.

 

PTR

[Since 1972]

They're called injuries.

 

PTR

STOP with the injuries crap!

 

All teams have em.

 

How many injuries did the BIlls have in 2010? OR in 2009? HOw many?...come on now count em up.

 

How many injuries can any team afford? How many will there be in 2012?

 

GD.. if it weren't for injuries the Bills would be world beaters every year. Year in and year out!!

 

The Bills for some unknown reason (unless PTR knows it) have excessive owies.

[bowery4]

AHHHHHH! Stop! What is the matter with you? What does this line have to do for you to acknowledge that they had a good season? Pears played every snap at RT and played awesome! Bell was awesome at LT- now I'll admit he is injury prone- but then Hairston steps in as a rookie and they don't miss a beat! They were 4th in the NFL in YPC! They allowed the LEAST SACKS IN THE NFL! It is borderline troll-like of you to come on here and list offensive tackle as a need over wide receiver, let alone to list their tackle position as a "gaping hole." Please stop insulting a unit that played their asses off all season. The Bills need a freaking pass rush. They need to address that in two of the first three rounds. Thank you.

 

I agree that they run block well and Fitz gets rid of it quickly, but they pass block for 2-3 seconds on many plays. But the fact is Fitz gets hit after throwing too much, in a thread on here before last weeks game someone posted the line was 26th or somewhere around that in the league at hits after the throw, I find that pretty reveling. It is my number one argument that he actually is decent at QB WHEN he has time. He never get 5 seconds, we need a OT or 2 IMO. Pears gets beat by fast outside guys and I have hope for Hairston and Bell (if he comes back) but wonder if either a a true answer at the position. The interior is mostly solid and has back ups. I really like Brown and wonder how he would do at OT. I know it takes Olines time playing together and getting used to eachother, so we do have that in our favor IMO.

I also agree we need to draft pass rush high Oline if it is an OT should be high too. If Stevie is back we can get by with our group of receivers and shouldn't draft that position high. Health has a lot to do with my opinions, we really need to stay healthy next year. But one favorable thing about this year is that lots of back ups got some playing time and evaluation.

 

We really need a few players that make a difference (impact players). I am talking Pro-Bowl players that make big plays when needed. Winning teams have them, we do not.

 

Dareus could be one. Jackson/Spiller as well. Sometimes Bryd.

 

My take on our needs by priority

 

1. OLB - we need two of them and one of them needs to be an impact player that can get to the QB. We need two OLBs no mattter whether we play 3-4 or 4-3. BTW - I think we will play both. We need to use the draft and free agency. Our current OLBs are atrocious.

 

2. WR - we need speed at Wr. We need a true #1 with speed and reliable hands. Johnson is a very good #2 WR.

 

3. DE - Once again, someone that can get to the QB.

 

4. LT - Bell is ok when healthy, but he appears to be a player that cannot stay healthy. Expecting Hairston to carry the load is a dangerous proposition.

 

5. QB - I would change this to #1 if there is a QB like RG3 or Luck available. Fitz is a stop gap. We can address other positions rather than reach for a QB but we should not pass up one either.

 

6. TE - would love to see a new-era TE in a Bills uniform. I am talking about a large and fast super athelete, the new breed TE. Chandler is good but having a TE attack like the Pats* would be a great thing come November/ December in the Ralph.

 

1.I agree with the impact players statement, OLB or DE if we go to an all 4/3 should be a giant priority. FA, the draft, hell even raiding CFL teams can and should be where this is done.

2. I don't think we should draft a WR that high unless it is a BPA situation. What we have is semi serviceable but my main thing is that Fitz needs more time, that is on the line and we should run more. At least part of the problem is lining up 5 wide w/o a back behind Fitz. They know he is passing and tee off, which we used as a strength at times but worked against us later when there were injuries and a lack of talent.

3.If it is 3/4 an end isn't really who should get to the qb (unless you have Bruce). Pressure yes. Kelsey and Johnson (in a 4/3) are both okay but we could use someone better of course. Edwards is good in the 3/4 alinement. Dareus and Kyle too, in both.

4.Agree see above

5. We should draft and groom a somewhat high draft guy that falls like NE* did this year. Fitz could be better if he has better around him and Chan stays with the run more.

6. I would do the same with TE as I said OLB above, get another so we have 2 good ones, copy the cheaters! draft a big fast one who can catch and block and use 2 TE sets (or bring in one in FA or even the CFLs best one) Pick up at least 2 and USE them.

 

How about giving the HC confidence to call some 5 or 7 step drops? Maybe allow the QB to run play action and turn his back to the LOS? The play-calling is dictated more by the resources at the HC's disposal than we think.

 

What is not seen is what the problem is with regard to the OL. Edge protection from good rushers is not good enough, despite the much referred to sacks allowed statistic. Fitzpatrick would be hit more frequently if it weren't for Gailey running an offense predicated on quick throws.

I hardly ever agree with you but THIS.

 

 

I think you misunderstood my post. Looking at your original post:

LB is full of holes. - I counted as 2 starters needed

D-line could use an end. - 1 starter needed

O-line is a player away. - 1 starter needed

WR needs another playmaker, two if we lose SJ - 1 starter needed, 2 if they don't resign SJ

 

That made at least 5 starters that in your mind are still needed by the Bills.

Then you followed that up with

So we aren't that far away.

So my question to you was/is, if you think the Bills need at least 5 starters, how many good drafts will that take to fill?

Do you think, for example, that year 3 of the rebuild process (i.e. next season) can fill that many positions? If not, how many more years?

 

5 decent starters turnover (and I would hope 3 of them to be very good ones) in a year is certainly accomplishable, plus more depth. We have what, 10 draft choices? FA can be used, trading for players......even waivers and raiding practice squads, there are many ways to build a team. 5 holes is less than what we had last year by about 7 or 8 if you ask me. I didn't think we had any TEs, and no back up Olinemen going into this season (both can be better by off season moves still).

I am okay with Nix and Gailey if they can get it right this off season, if they make new holes (Stevie and a few other FAs) and draft to fill them it will be the same old, same old though. I think the Nix part makes me happier than the Chan part as of now but really both need to make some serious adjustments going into next year. It is doable and I did like the direction the team was heading in, the collapse of course, has influenced my thinking.

But lets get it done and GO BILLS.

[Dan]

1325607420[/url]' post='2353271']

A team that loses 7 games in a row a year after losing 8 games in a row, very much has holes at a great many positions. This is not just a depth issue.

 

I would disagree. I think it's more an indication of poor coaching coupled with excessive injuries. Is Maybin the complete waste that can't even get on the field that he was in Buffalo or is he a 5 sack a year guy that he was in NY?

 

I agree with several posters here, we have fewer holes than I think many realize. The problem is they are important holes. How do you run a 3-4 defense with only 1 decent LBer on your defense? We desperately need to get good LBs, a DE, a WR. In that order, IMO.

 

Yes, we have needs at many other positions, but that's to build depth or just to upgrade. OL, for ex, yes, it would be nice to upgrade our LT; however, Bell is not complete crap like our LBers are. So, I don't see how that can be considered a hole. Same with QB. Fitz is ok (especially if we get a starting WR to go with Stevie). But, yes, it would be nice to draft a guy to replace him in a couple of years. But QB is by no means a huge hole on this team.

 

Get some adequate coaching which maybe we've done with Wanny, fill some of these glaring holes, continue upgrading and finding good depth, and watch several of our existing guys improve dramatically.

 

Obviously, we can't address every hole and every upgrade this year. So do you draft a young QB this year or do you continue filling other areas of greater need? That's an answer that I would expet depends upon the player available this year vs next year. But, IMO, you have to address the major holes, first. Then you worry about the upgrades/depth.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Dan

[Tcali]

Clearly we need depth, but I don't see many positions of glaring weakness. OLB is a hole and maybe DE if we go 4-3, but what else? On offense another top WR would be nice and possibly an upgrade at QB, but I don't see either as a gaping hole. What are all these holes I keep hearing about?

half the season beginning starters arent legit NFL starters. and two of our best players..Wood and Williams have

very tricky potentially career shortening injuries. swiss cheese is what come to mind.

 

5 more starters would take us about 5 more years. But by then we'd lose 8 of our 11 current quality starters.

right on. people dont seem to get that. you lose people every year due to age/injuries etc. You need good drafts over several years plus add'l smart moves just to have a winning team consistently.Having 5 holes or 8 holes or whatever isn't gonna get resolved by bringing in 8 players.The Bills horrendous drafting over the past several years as well as other horrible personnel moves have made them the stinko team they are.

[JPS]

LB is full of holes.

D-line could use an end.

DBs can't be fully judged until pass rush improves.

O-line is a player away.

RB is solid

WR needs another playmaker, two if we lose SJ

QB can be better but not the train wreck some make it out to be.

 

So we aren't that far away.

 

PTR

I'm starting to agree with you alot PTR. I'm not sure if you should be offended or flattered. The only thing I would add is a large and speedy Tight End.

[Gray Beard]

I'm starting to agree with you alot PTR. I'm not sure if you should be offended or flattered. The only thing I would add is a large and speedy Tight End.

I actually agree with PTR quite often. And I agree that tight end should be added to the list.

The Bills need some starters (OLB!!) but in many cases the first string players are pretty good, and the second string players are a huge drop off in talent. With injuries, the number of second stringers on the field becomes a problem.

When you have a pretty good first string but the second string isn't so good, you can afford to draft some players in later rounds that will add DEPTH, and aren't necessarily the all-pro starters that everyone wants for all positions.