Screw The Defense In Round One

[mrags]

I can't give you an assessment other than what I said. I have not seen the other guys play enough. He looks big and slow to me but he is great at getting up there catching the ball. He also looks very strong. Maybe he does not get a lot of separation but does not need it because he always wins the battle. Check out the highlights and you will see that most catches the db is right on him.

He is a playmaker for sure

 

youtube.com/watch?v=fljiaojL5fM

Thanks. Helped. More highlights of the guy. He looks really good and a defenate playmaker but like you said I noticed alot of times not clear seperation and battled for the ball which frightens me a bit considering the level of play of the DBs in the pros. He's gotta be more well rounded to beat them on a play by play basis. Can't just rely on physical attributes. Not saying Blackmon or Gloud are better or worse here. Just making comments on Jeffrey. I did notice not too many times he broke tackles to take the ball upfiels for big gains. Lots of times it looked like he couldn't outrun the DBs, or was tackled by them immediately. Again not comparing to anyone else. Just my notes on what I saw. he's a physical beast and probably the pick at 10 since Blackmon is a top 5 prospect so if were going WR he might be it. Not sure if his big physical go up and get it deep threat play suits Fitz and Gaileys offense but who knows. I saw him go over the middle and comeback routes too but without being able to break tackles on college DBs what makes anyone think he can donut against guys bigger and faster in the NFL? Not being cute. I wanna know more info here.

[KOKBILLS]

Thanks. Helped. More highlights of the guy. He looks really good and a defenate playmaker but like you said I noticed alot of times not clear seperation and battled for the ball which frightens me a bit considering the level of play of the DBs in the pros. He's gotta be more well rounded to beat them on a play by play basis. Can't just rely on physical attributes. Not saying Blackmon or Gloud are better or worse here. Just making comments on Jeffrey. I did notice not too many times he broke tackles to take the ball upfiels for big gains. Lots of times it looked like he couldn't outrun the DBs, or was tackled by them immediately. Again not comparing to anyone else. Just my notes on what I saw. he's a physical beast and probably the pick at 10 since Blackmon is a top 5 prospect so if were going WR he might be it. Not sure if his big physical go up and get it deep threat play suits Fitz and Gaileys offense but who knows. I saw him go over the middle and comeback routes too but without being able to break tackles on college DBs what makes anyone think he can donut against guys bigger and faster in the NFL? Not being cute. I wanna know more info here.

 

No offense...But you're over-analyzing Jeffery...I'm sure some NFL GM's will do the same so he can fall right into The Bills lap...He's a player and a freak physically...He'll break plenty of tackles, but more importantly he'll catch tough passes and he's born open because of his size and wing-span...Don't over-think it...He's really good...And better than anything the Bills have currently...He's solid off the field as well...He's a hell of a good prospect...Period...

 

And forget about Blackmon...The Bills pick 10th and he'll be long gone by then...

[mrags]

No offense...But you're over-analyzing Jeffery...I'm sure some NFL GM's will do the same so he can fall right into The Bills lap...He's a player and a freak physically...He'll break plenty of tackles, but more importantly he'll catch tough passes and he's born open because of his size and wing-span...Don't over-think it...He's really good...And better than anything the Bills have currently...He's solid off the field as well...He's a hell of a good prospect...Period...

 

And forget about Blackmon...The Bills pick 10th and he'll be long gone by then...

Thank you for your opinion. I think he's a gift from god physically. I just have second thoughts about a guy that's that gifted but can't outrun defenders, create seperation that should be there because of his obvious physical attributes and has a hard time breaking tackles from college DBs. Maybe I'm overanalyzing it. Maybe I'm not. I just remember a guy named James Hardy that was an obvious choice because of his size but yet couldn't get it done. Not comparing the two. I just have a hard time with WRs over 6'3" because they generally lack that quick step because they are so lenghty. Hardy looked like Frankenstein running with a loaf of bread in his hands and this guy looks similar to me on some levels. But that's my preference of having more of a possession WR than a guy down the sidelines. Again it goes along with my lack of information on him. Sure his size is an advantage but it doesn't always translate. IMO possession WRs in the TO, Boldin type mold are preferred. That's my style though. Obviously I'd like a Megatron type of player but just because he's the se size doesn't mean it's the second coming. I agree with Blackmon being gone when we pick at 10. I have to learn more of Jeffrey and Floyd because I have seen about 30 highlights of either of them and want to know more.

But what the hell am I thinking anyway, this is the Bills FO making the pick sobwhy nother looking at a WR anyway. Chances are well just pick a RB or DB anyway. Lol.

 

Thanks, really, all this info helps. Maybe someday I'll get over my fears of tall lengthy WRs. Who knows, maybe Jeffrey will get picked by us and break my horrible thoughts.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

When we're talking about a guy like Jeffery, you probably have to compare him to other elite talents.

 

Elite, tall receivers are guys like Calvin Johnson (6'5" and 2nd overall), Randy Moss (6'4" and 21st overall but dropped due to character concerns), and Plaxico Burress (6'5" and 8th overall).

 

Moss was a super separation guy beating defenders by 5-10 yards in the blink of an eye.

 

Megatron can run past guys pretty routinely but he's a bit more of a jump baller than Moss.

 

Plax in his prime could get behind people and remains a great jump baller.

 

Speed-wise Jeffery is clearly not the player Randy Moss was.

Edited January 4, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan

[CarolinaBill]

The one thing you keep mentioning is James hardy, let me clear this up, Jeffrey is NOT James hardy. Hardy was a basketball player that had zero routes on his routes tree. Hardy was slow and tall, he had a good ur at IU and came out for what became one of, if not the worst wr groups in the last 15 yrs.

While Alshon doesn't possess blazing sub 4.3 speed, he is fast enough to get separation, and his superior route running will be a huge asset to him as a pro. Again, I've watched him since he was a true freshman, believe me when I say, he will be great for whoever tales him, which is why I hope my bills pull the trigger if he's available @ #10.

In no way am I discounting the talent and accomplishments of black on, I just think AJ would be great for us.

[mrags]

The one thing you keep mentioning is James hardy, let me clear this up, Jeffrey is NOT James hardy. Hardy was a basketball player that had zero routes on his routes tree. Hardy was slow and tall, he had a good ur at IU and came out for what became one of, if not the worst wr groups in the last 15 yrs.

While Alshon doesn't possess blazing sub 4.3 speed, he is fast enough to get separation, and his superior route running will be a huge asset to him as a pro. Again, I've watched him since he was a true freshman, believe me when I say, he will be great for whoever tales him, which is why I hope my bills pull the trigger if he's available @ #10.

In no way am I discounting the talent and accomplishments of black on, I just think AJ would be great for us.

Thanks for your assessments. I appreciate that coming from someone who has watched him for years. I hope you understand by no means am I comparing him to Hardy. The fact is I don't know enough about him. It's just my concern about overly tall recievers that they don't run crisp routes and don't have that quick step to breakaway. Kind of like they need room to run and pick up speed. It's just a scary thought I've always had. Not saying Jeffrey is this at all, but overall it scares me. Again, I appreciate your comments and assessments of someone you've clearly seen alot of and I haven't.

 

SJBF. I like what you say regarding Moss, Burress, and Megatron. If Jeffrey is a supreme talent like any of these that's great no matter what. They are all pro bowl type talents. Regarding being in the Bills though, we need to figure out which one Jeffrey is most closely related to.

 

Anyone would love to have Moss on thier team no matter what. He's a first ballot HOF type talentbut what works beat for our team? I don't think that kind of talent mixes well with our team, playcalling/coaching prefferences, or QB. Not alleill be here more than 4-5 years and that has to be taken into account as well but I'm not sure Gailey signs up for that in the long run. And I'm not sure Fitz can feed that type of player the ball.

 

Megatron is similar to that Fitz might not be able to utilize the deep aspect of his game. Not sure if it works well for us. Clearly you can just throw up the ball and he could go grab it but would be effected by lack of the long ball.

 

Burress is probably the best of the bunch as far as how we run our offense and Fitz likes to throw the ball. More of a well rounded playmaker. Ability to run deep routes with ease, overpower any defender, or just leap over them in any situation. Powerful enough To run the come back, over the middle or slant routes and just overpower his way through arm tackles and shuck off defenders who aren't squared up with him.

 

Burress to me seems to fit very well, more of a possession reciever with freak size and strenghts. Jeffrey looks like this most to me but when I saw his clips, his play reminds me more of Megatron.

 

Sounds like a great pick either way. Let's just hope the FO doesn't screw this up. We really need to resign Stevie and add another WR that can be our #2 or potentially be the true #1 we all want so much.

 

Thanks for all the inside info from the Carolina guys. Please tell me if any of these personal comparisons makes any sense.

[Pete]

I would love it if somehow Sanu fell to the Bills in the second round. I would even trade up for him, after picking a pass rusher with our first pick

[1B4IDie]

The one thing you keep mentioning is James hardy, let me clear this up, Jeffrey is NOT James hardy. Hardy was a basketball player that had zero routes on his routes tree. Hardy was slow and tall, he had a good ur at IU and came out for what became one of, if not the worst wr groups in the last 15 yrs.

While Alshon doesn't possess blazing sub 4.3 speed, he is fast enough to get separation, and his superior route running will be a huge asset to him as a pro. Again, I've watched him since he was a true freshman, believe me when I say, he will be great for whoever tales him, which is why I hope my bills pull the trigger if he's available @ #10.

In no way am I discounting the talent and accomplishments of black on, I just think AJ would be great for us.

Thanks for pointing that out.

 

James Hardy was a horrible pick. The guy was real big and stood in the back of the end zone and jumped to catch the few TD the horrible Indiana football team scored. When Hardy realized he wasn't gonna make it to the NBA he tried to become a skinny Antonio Gates.

 

The only saving grace is that Limas Sweed, and Malcolm Kelly, who I had ranked way way way way way way higher than James Hardy both turned out to be scrubs. Sweed couldn't get out of the dog house and supposedly didn't work hard enough for coach Tomlin and Kelly was always injured. Who knows if the Bills would have made the right call and picked Sweed or Kelly if they would have faired better in Buffalo, but Hardy was not representative of a "Tall WR."

 

Like you said he couldn't run any routes, His one route was "Go Stand in the end zone."

 

There is really no comparison to the much more well rounded Jeffrey.

Jeffrey still has lots to learn at the NFL level but will come into any team with a good set of tools that should be able to help from Day 1.

 

I still think there is some debate over Floyd and Jeffrey but either way both could be great additional to the Bills offense.

 

Restating my belief that if the Bills are going to transition back to a full time "4-3" (which they should) then you have to take Coples if he is on the board. Like you can't even think about any other options. It would have to be a CJ Spiller-esque rush to the podium. So don't screw the D. You can't play a 4-3 without an edge rusher. Kelsay can hold down the other end, (its something he is actually better than average at) You would have a huge hole in the 4-3 without another DE. It's like playing a 3-4 without any LBs. (We just saw that movie for the last two years.)

Edited January 4, 2012 by Why So Serious?

[papazoid]

a team foundation is built on LINEMAN....the "front 7" on both sides of the ball. on offense thats lineman and tight ends and on defense lineman and linebackers.

 

the BIlls who have drafted primarily finesse positions (WR, RB & DB's) with their top picks are a perfect example on how not to build a winner.

 

 

#1- Bills biggest problem - no defensive pressure or sacks on opposing QB's . bills had the third lowest sack total in NFL. improve that and you improve your secondary.

 

#2- Bills second biggest problem - Fitz has 3 seconds to read and throw. our offensive tackles are the worst in football. strengthen the O-line and you improve both the passing and running game.

[BuffaloBaumer]

a team foundation is built on LINEMAN....the "front 7" on both sides of the ball. on offense thats lineman and tight ends and on defense lineman and linebackers.

 

the BIlls who have drafted primarily finesse positions (WR, RB & DB's) with their top picks are a perfect example on how not to build a winner.

 

 

#1- Bills biggest problem - no defensive pressure or sacks on opposing QB's . bills had the third lowest sack total in NFL. improve that and you improve your secondary.

 

#2- Bills second biggest problem - Fitz has 3 seconds to read and throw. our offensive tackles are the worst in football. strengthen the O-line and you improve both the passing and running game.

 

I agree with this but at the same time, BPA is going to be pointing to a WR when all is said and done. The line can be fixed in later rounds and unless there is a franchise LT available at 10, WR should be the pick. I also don't see a big time difference making LB at #10 as of now.

[bobobonators]

I live in SC and have been following the gamecocks the last few years. I like Jeffrey but I would not use a first round on him. He is tall and does a great job at catching the ball but he does not get a lot of separation. I would think he would be an awesome second pick.

 

what are your thoughts on Melvin Ingram? I've only seen him play maybe 3-4 times..quite impressive in about 2 of those games. Would he be worth a 10?

 

 

Restating my belief that if the Bills are going to transition back to a full time "4-3" (which they should) then you have to take Coples if he is on the board. Like you can't even think about any other options. It would have to be a CJ Spiller-esque rush to the podium. So don't screw the D. You can't play a 4-3 without an edge rusher. Kelsay can hold down the other end, (its something he is actually better than average at) You would have a huge hole in the 4-3 without another DE. It's like playing a 3-4 without any LBs. (We just saw that movie for the last two years.)

 

that's my fear as well. if we transition to the 4-3 this team is well off at DT, but seriously lacking at DE. Isn't Umenyiora a FA this season?? If we transition to the 4-3, I would throw insane money at him despite his injury concerns. he's 30 years old and should still have 3-4 productive years left.

 

any chance we get Osi???..lol

[papazoid]

I agree with this but at the same time, BPA is going to be pointing to a WR when all is said and done. The line can be fixed in later rounds and unless there is a franchise LT available at 10, WR should be the pick. I also don't see a big time difference making LB at #10 as of now.

 

there are 3 top 10 quality OT's in this draft (Kalil, Reiff & Martin)...i think one will be there at #10.

 

i think there are four teams ahead of us that want/need a QB (indy, cle, wash & mia)which could mean Landry cracks the top ten with Luck & RG III.

[1B4IDie]

there are 3 top 10 quality OT's in this draft (Kalil, Reiff & Martin)...i think one will be there at #10.

 

i think there are four teams ahead of us that want/need a QB (indy, cle, wash & mia)which could mean Landry cracks the top ten with Luck & RG III.

 

You're forgetting the second best, imo, LOT Mike Adams Ohio State.

 

He is a senior where, Kalil, Reiff, & Martin are all Juniors.

 

I like my O-LineMEN seasoned.

 

If they don't go Coples, I'd like a real LOT on the roster, If they don't go Coples or LOT, Dre Kirkpatrick just looks like a special talent. Yeah its not a trench player and I like Beef, but its rare to see a 6'2" corner that can play like that way. With Aron Williams and Kirkpatrick you might be able to get some coverage sacks. Yes it pains me to even consider another DB in the first round. This board would explode if they took Kirkpatrick but the guy is a major baller.

 

If they're all off the board then you have the Floyd, Jeffrey depute.

 

In my mind the Bills BPA board should look like this:

 

Luck

RGIII

Weeden (yes this is my board and I know he is 28, but this young man looks plug and play ready to me)

Kalil

Quinton Coples (if the decision for the 4-3 is made) - Upshaw if we're doing 3-4 Hybrid mess

Mike Adams

Dre Kirkpatrick

Floyd/Jeffrey/Blackmon - Probably in that order. (If Blackmon measures 6'3" then he jumps up to the head of the pack but mine eyes tells me he is 6'1" like it says on his stats page)

Edited January 4, 2012 by Why So Serious?

[Webster Guy]

Our scouting department needs to sit with our new DC and choose the best pass rushing person in the nation. Don't care if it's LB or DE or what stupid scheme we use.

 

There are so many situational substitutions and hybrid looks with todays NFL defenses it's silly, but at the end of the day you have to bring pressure with 4 guys and we have 2 great ones, a bunch of average ones and whoever we draft this year.

 

Nix had a good draft last year, he needs to have one more and this first pick must be a homerun. Picking Dareus at 3 didn't take any scouting talent, he was the obvious choice. This year it's no so obvious.

 

The Jets and Miami are average teams and very beatable, its time to climb. Show me the freakin' baby Nix.

[CarolinaBill]

what are your thoughts on Melvin Ingram? I've only seen him play maybe 3-4 times..quite impressive in about 2 of those games. Would he be worth a 10?

 

Ingram really came into his own this yr, he played the edge and inside and really developed his game, however, he may get put in the tweener catagory because of his height/weight. IMO he's probably a 4-3 DE, but top 10 ,ay be stretching it. I think his combine and pro day will clear up alot of questions and concerns about MI.

Edited January 4, 2012 by CarolinaBill

[mikef272002]

Sanu declared for the NFL draft on Tuesday (according to Joe Schad via Twitter), and although there are receivers rated much higher than him, like Oklahoma State's Justin Blackmon and South Carolina's Alshon Jeffery, Sanu is certainly an intriguing prospect.

 

At 6'2'', Sanu weighs in at 215 pounds, so he passes the eye test at the next level.

 

He's interesting because he simply does everything well.

 

The Rutgers' standout won't burn every NFL corner, but he is deceptively fast.

 

He runs crisp routes and knows how to set up defensive backs to get open. Also, he demonstrated outstanding ball skills in 2011, often coming down with jump balls against tight coverage.

 

The production was there, too.

 

Sanu hauled in 115 passes for 1,206 yards with seven touchdowns.

 

With many teams in dire need of receiving help, Sanu could be a steal for a team in the second or third round.

[bobobonators]

Sanu declared for the NFL draft on Tuesday (according to Joe Schad via Twitter), and although there are receivers rated much higher than him, like Oklahoma State's Justin Blackmon and South Carolina's Alshon Jeffery, Sanu is certainly an intriguing prospect.

 

At 6'2'', Sanu weighs in at 215 pounds, so he passes the eye test at the next level.

 

He's interesting because he simply does everything well.

 

The Rutgers' standout won't burn every NFL corner, but he is deceptively fast.

 

He runs crisp routes and knows how to set up defensive backs to get open. Also, he demonstrated outstanding ball skills in 2011, often coming down with jump balls against tight coverage.

 

The production was there, too.

 

Sanu hauled in 115 passes for 1,206 yards with seven touchdowns.

 

With many teams in dire need of receiving help, Sanu could be a steal for a team in the second or third round.

 

Ya, Sanu is a stud. If he played for a premier program he would certainly go in the first round. There's a good chance he may slip into the 2nd round and could be around when we pick in the 2nd.

 

thanks carolina bill..i'll definitely be following ingram throughout the combine.

[offyourocker]

Thanks. Helped. More highlights of the guy. He looks really good and a defenate playmaker but like you said I noticed alot of times not clear seperation and battled for the ball which frightens me a bit considering the level of play of the DBs in the pros. He's gotta be more well rounded to beat them on a play by play basis. Can't just rely on physical attributes. Not saying Blackmon or Gloud are better or worse here. Just making comments on Jeffrey. I did notice not too many times he broke tackles to take the ball upfiels for big gains. Lots of times it looked like he couldn't outrun the DBs, or was tackled by them immediately. Again not comparing to anyone else. Just my notes on what I saw. he's a physical beast and probably the pick at 10 since Blackmon is a top 5 prospect so if were going WR he might be it. Not sure if his big physical go up and get it deep threat play suits Fitz and Gaileys offense but who knows. I saw him go over the middle and comeback routes too but without being able to break tackles on college DBs what makes anyone think he can donut against guys bigger and faster in the NFL? Not being cute. I wanna know more info here.

 

 

One more thing I wanted to point out on Jeffrey is that he seems like a good kid which is very important in my eyes. I saw a couple interviews and he is well spoken also. I know he got ejected in the bowl they played but watching the replay I can understand why he push off the guy.

[mrags]

One more thing I wanted to point out on Jeffrey is that he seems like a good kid which is very important in my eyes. I saw a couple interviews and he is well spoken also. I know he got ejected in the bowl they played but watching the replay I can understand why he push off the guy.

That is always a big plus as well. Personally I could care less if the guy is an igotistical idiot as long as he's scoring TDs. Playmakers are playmakers. But it's obviously much nicer to have a good character guy to go with thier abilities not only from the coaches but from fans as well. The last thing we need is a good WR only to be ran out of town because he's am idiot, or egotistical, or doesn't like the city, etc...

[KOKBILLS]

One more thing I wanted to point out on Jeffrey is that he seems like a good kid which is very important in my eyes. I saw a couple interviews and he is well spoken also. I know he got ejected in the bowl they played but watching the replay I can understand why he push off the guy.

 

He's known to be a VERY hard worker as well...

 

For the record Jeffery declared today...