Thoughts about a terrible tragedy that happened in Syracuse....

[BuffaloBill]

What's the conflict? He's been charged with DWI. So? He was DWI.

 

 

The OP did not try to relieve him of the responsibility. The question was one of whether he deserved to be vilified in the court of public opinion due to his BAC at the time of the accident.

 

As an aside, one also has to question how much time elapsed between his BAC test and the time of the accident. One would have to reasonably assume that it was not immediate so at the time of the crash his BAC would have been higher. This does not change the fact that it appears that his impairment may not have contributed to the crash. At the same time,it continues to leave open the question did it?

[NoSaint]

I am guilty of having the same thoughts but at the same time they are not right. Given that we all drive every day we develop the belief that it is a routine act. The problem is that to do it correctly you really have to be paying full attention to what you are doing. We are all guilty of failing to do this whether it be drinking, looking at a cell phone or simply allowing our minds to wander while driving. We would all be better off and safer if we took our responsibilities behind the wheel more seriously.

 

Don't get me wrong I am not trying to call you out. I'm simply saying that events like this serve as a very unfortunate reminder that driving is a responsibility and not a right.

 

And I'll go a step further and say it's a situation that you should worry less about what someone else is doing and more about your own decisions. Just because you think you are better off then the guy in the car behind doesn't mean that's true, and it certainly doesn't mean your giving your best to all those other people that are relying on you to not mess up. The $20 for a cab, or passing on a few beers faaaaar outweighs the legal issues or questions of could I have made a difference if I was sober.

 

I cab, walk, use public transportation or have a DD 100% of the time as well.

Edited January 3, 2012 by NoSaint

[BuffaloBill]

And I'll go a step further and say it's a situation that you should worry less about what someone else is doing and more about your own decisions. Just because you think you are better off then the guy in the car behind doesn't mean that's true, and it certainly doesn't mean your giving your best to all those other people that are relying on you to not mess up. The $20 for a cab, or passing on a few beers faaaaar outweighs the legal issues or questions of could I have made a difference if I was sober.

 

I cab, walk, use public transportation or have a DD 100% of the time as well.

 

 

Your step further misses Plenzmd1's point(s) which is simply to say that underlying ability to drive correctly and safely varies accorsing to conditions beyond one's BAC level. I don't think that he nor anyone else here would suggest that driving drunk is in any way a responsible act nor in any way appropriate. Rather the level of ones BAC may be somewhat offset or magnified by whether they are a good or bad, experienced or inexperienced driver in the first place.

 

With that said, I very much agree with your point that the road is a shared space where my actions or decisions as a driver can have serious impact to those around me. What I tried to point out was that we (me included) fail to take this responsibility as seriously as we should in large part due to the fact that we numb ourselves into thinking that driving a car is such a simple routine act. We are all generally angry at the person who drives while intoxicated. Should we not be equally as angry at the people who drive while too tired, yapping on cell phones, putting their make-up on, texting, etc, etc. The sad reality is that we can probably look at ourselves in the mirror and realize that we are all guilty of one or more of these things.

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

Mentioned or verified?? If he didn't have his lights on, he's 100% at fault and deserving of everything that's coming to him.

 

She crossed the double yellow line and crashed into him. He is not 100% at fault.

[DC Tom]

She crossed the double yellow line and crashed into him. He is not 100% at fault.

 

No, she was crossing the street, either trying to make a left or trying to cross an intersection, and he t-boned her.

 

IF he had his lights off, and she couldn't see him oncoming in the dark, then he is at fault.

[Astrojanitor]

I am guilty of having the same thoughts but at the same time they are not right. Given that we all drive every day we develop the belief that it is a routine act. The problem is that to do it correctly you really have to be paying full attention to what you are doing. We are all guilty of failing to do this whether it be drinking, looking at a cell phone or simply allowing our minds to wander while driving. We would all be better off and safer if we took our responsibilities behind the wheel more seriously.

 

Don't get me wrong I am not trying to call you out. I'm simply saying that events like this serve as a very unfortunate reminder that driving is a responsibility and not a right.

 

I just want to say this is a really smart point. For most of us driving is like making coffee, just part of the routine. There's the assumption that since the other aspects of the routine can be done after a few drinks we skate on everything involving muscle memory. I think a good way to think about it is I have heard myself play guitar sober and I have heard recordings of me playing after having 1, 2, 3, 4+ drinks. At the time it always sounds pretty good, but when sober I hear my playing start to fall apart after maybe drink 3. And this is even coming from someone with a perversely high tolerance for alcohol. I've always felt .08 has become the unofficial drunk number because it just sounds something you may be pushing against after a couple drinks. A bit of psychology to try and keep us all under control.

[NoSaint]

Your step further misses Plenzmd1's point(s) which is simply to say that underlying ability to drive correctly and safely varies accorsing to conditions beyond one's BAC level. I don't think that he nor anyone else here would suggest that driving drunk is in any way a responsible act nor in any way appropriate. Rather the level of ones BAC may be somewhat offset or magnified by whether they are a good or bad, experienced or inexperienced driver in the first place.

 

With that said, I very much agree with your point that the road is a shared space where my actions or decisions as a driver can have serious impact to those around me. What I tried to point out was that we (me included) fail to take this responsibility as seriously as we should in large part due to the fact that we numb ourselves into thinking that driving a car is such a simple routine act. We are all generally angry at the person who drives while intoxicated. Should we not be equally as angry at the people who drive while too tired, yapping on cell phones, putting their make-up on, texting, etc, etc. The sad reality is that we can probably look at ourselves in the mirror and realize that we are all guilty of one or more of these things.

 

I feel society gets pretty angry at those people too. It's shaping up that this person was hit by someone legally drunk without lights on and among the first comments was that she was probably texting. I think to say "I'm a better driver at .10 bac then some old lady at 85 years old is an excuse to justify a bad decision. Instead of pointing fingers at others shortcomings on the road, I think many people would be better off taking responsibility for their own choices.

 

"but look what he's doing" isn't a very good justification for your own choices.

 

If you get in that accident and are confident you can say alcohol was a non factor then so be it, but I'm guessing you'd very quickly regret every time you said "well, I'm not that bad about it" or "they are worse than I am."

 

I think my reply probably didn't squarely lineup to your post as much as a general tone present in several around it.

 

I just want to say this is a really smart point. For most of us driving is like making coffee, just part of the routine. There's the assumption that since the other aspects of the routine can be done after a few drinks we skate on everything involving muscle memory. I think a good way to think about it is I have heard myself play guitar sober and I have heard recordings of me playing after having 1, 2, 3, 4+ drinks. At the time it always sounds pretty good, but when sober I hear my playing start to fall apart after maybe drink 3. And this is even coming from someone with a perversely high tolerance for alcohol. I've always felt .08 has become the unofficial drunk number because it just sounds something you may be pushing against after a couple drinks. A bit of psychology to try and keep us all under control.

 

I very much agree with these points. I think its common for someone to be way confident in their abilities after a few beers, but maybe not be the best judge. Especially in situations when fractions of a second can make a big difference. Whether that is .07 or .11 or really doesnt make a huge difference. the cutoff is .08 and frankly, isnt wildly off mark. sure you might hit the limit a drink before your abilities are too impaired but its not a crazy cut off.... after a few drinks you probably are better off not on the road. its not that hard to work around the rule.

Edited January 3, 2012 by NoSaint

[NoSaint]

i am prolly going to take some chit here, but i have always been conflicted on drinking and driving rules.I think if you are hammered, you should not drive..period. That being said, i always have a tough time with the strict .08 limit. I 100% guarantee even at .08 i am a bettr driver than 50 % of the people on the road..that being siad i am not as good a driver as I could be...and that little bit could, like maybe it did in this case, cause me to not avoid an accident, even if not of my own doing.

 

I will be the first to admit that i drive after having a few pops, and i bet sometimes i am close or even over the limit. My gut is the majority on this board do as well based on all the beer threads etc. Pooj, do you take a cab all the time when you go to have a few beers? BTW, think this was the case with Donte Stallworth as well, he was above the limit, but was ruled that did not cause the unfortunate death of the victim

 

i am also an avid opponant of open container laws..they just make no sense to me. I can stop in a bar and have two beers then drive, but drink them in the car and that is against the law?

 

given my strong posts against drinking and driving, i am surprisingly not opposed to your last point. i dont much care if someones beer is in the cup holder or if it was drank before leaving the bar. i care if you have had more than a couple and over how long, not the location these occured at. i get the idea of discouraging the act of drunk driving by essentially banning consumption while driving, but it really doesnt hit the core of the issue.

[plenzmd1]

I think to say "I'm a better driver at .10 bac then some old lady at 85 years old is an excuse to justify a bad decision. Instead of pointing fingers at others shortcomings on the road, I think many people would be better off taking responsibility for their own choices

 

And i think that is where you and I might have a slight difference of opinion. I drive a ton in my job, average close to 40,000 miles a year..I see a lot of really bad, bad drivers..and have averted more than my share of accidents from people who I know will cause accidents down the line, strictly as a result of my defensive driving style.I really think they cause as many accidents as drunk drivers .

 

My conondrum on this issue is this... is a persons BAC more important than their actually ability to drive the vehicle in a safe and effective manor. Thats why I am in favor of the physical checks..but understand there may be no way around a strcict BAC level.

[NoSaint]

And i think that is where you and I might have a slight difference of opinion. I drive a ton in my job, average close to 40,000 miles a year..I see a lot of really bad, bad drivers..and have averted more than my share of accidents from people who I know will cause accidents down the line, strictly as a result of my defensive driving style.I really think they cause as many accidents as drunk drivers .

 

My conondrum on this issue is this... is a persons BAC more important than their actually ability to drive the vehicle in a safe and effective manor. Thats why I am in favor of the physical checks..but understand there may be no way around a strcict BAC level.

 

there are certainly a lot of bad drivers causing accidents - i get that. accidents tend to be caused by poor driving, and very few have alcohol involved. it doesnt mean that good drivers should be able to drink, or text or drive 20mph faster, or anything else.... atleast in my book. in the end we all owe it to each other to be on top of our game when on the roads. awesome, you are good at driving, but i dont think that means you should be allowed to be more reckless because of it.

 

whether licensing requirements need to be revisited is a totally different discussion.

Edited January 3, 2012 by NoSaint

[plenzmd1]

there are certainly a lot of bad drivers causing accidents - i get that. accidents tend to be caused by poor driving, and very few have alcohol involved. it doesnt mean that good drivers should be able to drink, or text or drive 20mph faster, or anything else.... atleast in my book. in the end we all owe it to each other to be on top of our game when on the roads. awesome, you are good at driving, but i dont think that means you should be allowed to be more reckless because of it.

 

whether licensing requirements need to be revisited is a totally different discussion.

 

agreed!

[bbb]

i am prolly going to take some chit here, but i have always been conflicted on drinking and driving rules.I think if you are hammered, you should not drive..period. That being said, i always have a tough time with the strict .08 limit. I 100% guarantee even at .08 i am a bettr driver than 50 % of the people on the road..that being siad i am not as good a driver as I could be...and that little bit could, like maybe it did in this case, cause me to not avoid an accident, even if not of my own doing.

 

I will be the first to admit that i drive after having a few pops, and i bet sometimes i am close or even over the limit. My gut is the majority on this board do as well based on all the beer threads etc.

 

When I was drinking (& driving unfortunately), I thought I was a great drunk driver. In fact, I was told that many times. I really thought that they should let you take a driver's test while drunk and if you pass, then you get an able to drive drunk license. I was very serious about this.

 

I now realize I was an idiot, and also incredibly lucky to have driven drunk upwards of probably 700 times and never been in an accident or busted for DWI.

 

Just a few weeks ago, I was driving down Delaware Avenue, and it was the first bad rain in awhile, and I realized my wipers needed to be changed. It was dark, and I couldn't see ****. Then, some total idiot probably with issues appears walking in the middle of the street dressed in black..........If I had hit that person, after having had a few drinks, I would be looking at major jail time. If I had hit that person sober, probably not, since it would have been hugely their fault....Luckily, I didn't hit them.

[The Poojer]

That's scary s**t, hopefully a wake up call...it just seems if u get dui/dwi, u are labeled a pariah...not worth it...

 

When I was drinking (& driving unfortunately), I thought I was a great drunk driver. In fact, I was told that many times. I really thought that they should let you take a driver's test while drunk and if you pass, then you get an able to drive drunk license. I was very serious about this.

 

I now realize I was an idiot, and also incredibly lucky to have driven drunk upwards of probably 700 times and never been in an accident or busted for DWI.

 

Just a few weeks ago, I was driving down Delaware Avenue, and it was the first bad rain in awhile, and I realized my wipers needed to be changed. It was dark, and I couldn't see ****. Then, some total idiot probably with issues appears walking in the middle of the street dressed in black..........If I had hit that person, after having had a few drinks, I would be looking at major jail time. If I had hit that person sober, probably not, since it would have been hugely their fault....Luckily, I didn't hit them.

 

Just realized this was an unfortunate placement of commas and not a confession of recent events...

:-)

 

If I had hit that person, after having had a few drinks, I would be looking at major jail time.

[BuffaloBill]

When I was drinking (& driving unfortunately), I thought I was a great drunk driver. In fact, I was told that many times. I really thought that they should let you take a driver's test while drunk and if you pass, then you get an able to drive drunk license. I was very serious about this.

 

I now realize I was an idiot, and also incredibly lucky to have driven drunk upwards of probably 700 times and never been in an accident or busted for DWI.

 

Just a few weeks ago, I was driving down Delaware Avenue, and it was the first bad rain in awhile, and I realized my wipers needed to be changed. It was dark, and I couldn't see ****. Then, some total idiot probably with issues appears walking in the middle of the street dressed in black..........If I had hit that person, after having had a few drinks, I would be looking at major jail time. If I had hit that person sober, probably not, since it would have been hugely their fault....Luckily, I didn't hit them.

 

 

Your story is no different in concept than what many of us have experienced in one way or another. I grew up at the very tail end of a time when driving while drunk was considered with ambivalence or even with a guffaw. I have been both driver and passenger in a vehicle where there could be no doubt that the driver (whether me or another) was without a doubt over the limit. I feel very lucky looking back that nothing significant ever came of this. The truth is that only luck or if you believe, God, spared me or others from a far more terrible outcome.

 

As I get older I realize that dwi is only a small portion of the problem. I am angered by the number of times recently that I had to take some form of defensive action because some person was distracted most often by a cell phone while driving. I do not mean to exagerate as I'm not suggesting life threatening situations but I am certainly pointing to the a-wipes that run out of their lane or cut me off because they are yapping on their phone or whatever while driving.

 

I am saying through my comments in this threaded that all of us need to be a bit introspective and responsible about our habits while driving.