The Poojer Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) few weeks ago a young high school girl died in a car accident. Reports are that she crossed the center line and crashed with another car, she subsequently died at the hospital. Turns out the other car in the accident was driven by a guy who tested above the legal limit for alchol. On top of that he was charged with 'leandras law'(?), he dropped his 12 year old daughter off at a friends house earlier and as a result they slapped that additional charge on him. While I never condone drunk driving and it breaks my heart that a young life was lost. The guy is being villified despite the fact that the young girl crossed the center line crashing into him. I cannot reiterate too many times that the guy tested above the legal alcohol limit and should not have been behind the wheel I just find this to be a very troubling story based on the circumstances involved all around....I don't have any attachment to any of the people or families involved, but its a very bizarre story and I am trying to figure out how to react internally.... the story Edited January 3, 2012 by The Poojer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I fully understand your point, I very much agree, too. But, I cannot fully agree. Perhaps this guy was buzzed enough that his reactions were slowed, maybe he could have swerved a little more? There is tragedy across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBeane Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I agree with your sentiments. The guy was absolutely unlucky for events to unfold the way they did. I'm also sure that many more of us than would like to admit have been behind the wheel when we shouldn't have been. However, it is foreseeable that an accident could have happened, even if he was sober. Under the circumstances, you have to hold the guy responsible for what happened, even though I can't help feeling bad for him in a slight way. Ultimately, a life was unnecessarily lost and it is incredibly sad that the young lady lost her life so young. Lessons to be learned from this story, don't drive drunk, and pay attention to how you are driving regardless of the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I'll take a guess and say she was texting at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I'll take a guess and say she was texting at the time. My thoughts exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I'll take a guess and say she was texting at the time. My thoughts exactly Being familiar with the story and subsequent follow up stories since I'm in Syracuse, I have not heard/seen anything saying she was texting while driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 Jack, therein lies my gut feeling on this. Again let me state my point about being against anyone getting behind the wheel after drinking. I think the media is avoiding hinting at texting or calling so as to not detract from the driver above the legal limit. There is no way anyone is going to come to the defense of this guy. It's just a horrible story all around. Being familiar with the story and subsequent follow up stories since I'm in Syracuse, I have not heard/seen anything saying she was texting while driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Jack, therein lies my gut feeling on this. Again let me state my point about being against anyone getting behind the wheel after drinking. I think the media is avoiding hinting at texting or calling so as to not detract from the driver above the legal limit. There is no way anyone is going to come to the defense of this guy. It's just a horrible story all around. I've done some re-reading, and there's a couple things that should be cleared up. Map of the accident site She was on Totman, going across Northern Blvd, guessing she was heading north to go home. He was heading south on Northern. So he probably t-boned her into the median. Also from the story comments, it's been mentioned he did not have his lights on. Since the accident happened around 7:45pm, it would have been very dark out this time of year. Using Google Street View, there are no street lights in that area. Here's an accident photo You can see the drivers side crushed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Jack, therein lies my gut feeling on this. Again let me state my point about being against anyone getting behind the wheel after drinking. I think the media is avoiding hinting at texting or calling so as to not detract from the driver above the legal limit. There is no way anyone is going to come to the defense of this guy. It's just a horrible story all around. i am prolly going to take some chit here, but i have always been conflicted on drinking and driving rules.I think if you are hammered, you should not drive..period. That being said, i always have a tough time with the strict .08 limit. I 100% guarantee even at .08 i am a bettr driver than 50 % of the people on the road..that being siad i am not as good a driver as I could be...and that little bit could, like maybe it did in this case, cause me to not avoid an accident, even if not of my own doing. I will be the first to admit that i drive after having a few pops, and i bet sometimes i am close or even over the limit. My gut is the majority on this board do as well based on all the beer threads etc. Pooj, do you take a cab all the time when you go to have a few beers? BTW, think this was the case with Donte Stallworth as well, he was above the limit, but was ruled that did not cause the unfortunate death of the victim i am also an avid opponant of open container laws..they just make no sense to me. I can stop in a bar and have two beers then drive, but drink them in the car and that is against the law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 With you on the validity of the .08 limit, but its the law so we are stuck with it. I think lawmakers are handcuffed and intimidated into not questioning it. Being in philly, I honestly do take public transportation every time I go out...its easier than driving around here i am prolly going to take some chit here, but i have always been conflicted on drinking and driving rules.I think if you are hammered, you should not drive..period. That being said, i always have a tough time with the strict .08 limit. I 100% guarantee even at .08 i am a bettr driver than 50 % of the people on the road..that being siad i am not as good a driver as I could be...and that little bit could, like maybe it did in this case, cause me to not avoid an accident, even if not of my own doing. I will be the first to admit that i drive after having a few pops, and i bet sometimes i am close or even over the limit. My gut is the majority on this board do as well based on all the beer threads etc. Pooj, do you take a cab all the time when you go to have a few beers? BTW, think this was the case with Donte Stallworth as well, he was above the limit, but was ruled that did not cause the unfortunate death of the victim i am also an avid opponant of open container laws..they just make no sense to me. I can stop in a bar and have two beers then drive, but drink them in the car and that is against the law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 With you on the validity of the .08 limit, but its the law so we are stuck with it. I think lawmakers are handcuffed and intimidated into not questioning it. Being in philly, I honestly do take public transportation every time I go out...its easier than driving around here Thats awesome of the public transport..one of the things I miss most about living in the District . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 i am prolly going to take some chit here, but i have always been conflicted on drinking and driving rules.I think if you are hammered, you should not drive..period. That being said, i always have a tough time with the strict .08 limit. I 100% guarantee even at .08 i am a bettr driver than 50 % of the people on the road..that being siad i am not as good a driver as I could be...and that little bit could, like maybe it did in this case, cause me to not avoid an accident, even if not of my own doing. I will be the first to admit that i drive after having a few pops, and i bet sometimes i am close or even over the limit. My gut is the majority on this board do as well based on all the beer threads etc. Pooj, do you take a cab all the time when you go to have a few beers? BTW, think this was the case with Donte Stallworth as well, he was above the limit, but was ruled that did not cause the unfortunate death of the victim i am also an avid opponant of open container laws..they just make no sense to me. I can stop in a bar and have two beers then drive, but drink them in the car and that is against the law? I am guilty of having the same thoughts but at the same time they are not right. Given that we all drive every day we develop the belief that it is a routine act. The problem is that to do it correctly you really have to be paying full attention to what you are doing. We are all guilty of failing to do this whether it be drinking, looking at a cell phone or simply allowing our minds to wander while driving. We would all be better off and safer if we took our responsibilities behind the wheel more seriously. Don't get me wrong I am not trying to call you out. I'm simply saying that events like this serve as a very unfortunate reminder that driving is a responsibility and not a right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 With you on the validity of the .08 limit, but its the law so we are stuck with it. I think lawmakers are handcuffed and intimidated into not questioning it. How could you possibly change it though? You're going to have to come up with some specific cutoff point. I can't think of any way around that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I am guilty of having the same thoughts but at the same time they are not right. Given that we all drive every day we develop the belief that it is a routine act. The problem is that to do it correctly you really have to be paying full attention to what you are doing. We are all guilty of failing to do this whether it be drinking, looking at a cell phone or simply allowing our minds to wander while driving. We would all be better off and safer if we took our responsibilities behind the wheel more seriously. Don't get me wrong I am not trying to call you out. I'm simply saying that events like this serve as a very unfortunate reminder that driving is a responsibility and not a right. No worries on calling me out..just discussion. I get what you are saying , but to play devils advocate...should there not be tests every 4 years or so to make sure one is still capable of driving correctly? I think specifically of our aging population and their skills relevant to driving. What if i was able to take the tests while at say .09...and have reaction times and judgements that were above an acceptable level? That were still faster than that of the 75 year old? If the guy behind the wheel in this accident was 82, would we automatically say his age was a factor? Like I said, i know I( nor anyone) am not as fast on reactions etc if I even have one beer..but what if those reaction times are still faster than say 25% of the drivers out there? ..difficult question to me. How could you possibly change it though? You're going to have to come up with some specific cutoff point. I can't think of any way around that. wh not just a pure skills test ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 wh not just a pure skills test ? I think you're building in way to many escape clauses which only certain people will wind up getting. Subjective laws wind up being judged subjectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 No worries on calling me out..just discussion. I get what you are saying , but to play devils advocate...should there not be tests every 4 years or so to make sure one is still capable of driving correctly? I think specifically of our aging population and their skills relevant to driving. What if i was able to take the tests while at say .09...and have reaction times and judgements that were above an acceptable level? That were still faster than that of the 75 year old? If the guy behind the wheel in this accident was 82, would we automatically say his age was a factor? Like I said, i know I( nor anyone) am not as fast on reactions etc if I even have one beer..but what if those reaction times are still faster than say 25% of the drivers out there? ..difficult question to me. wh not just a pure skills test ? I don't know what it is like in VA (I think that's where you live) but the "recertification" process here in TN is an absolute joke. The driving portion of my exam was literally going around a block making all right turns and based on location and distance we barely made it up to 30 mph at one point. I did not even have to pull into a parking space at the end. I guess this only adds further weight to your points. The counterpoint to what you are saying is simply that to drive properly requires significant attention and at times quick reactions. I suppose anything that detracts from either should face some level of examination including self determination. BAC is a measurable thing and I believe there would be universal agreement that there needs to be some threshold to determine when you can't drive. Whether .08 is correct, to your points, is debatable. However, this is not unlike speed limits. Your eyesight and reactions (possibly even the design and functioning of your car) might allow you to drive faster, but more safely, than others. Still we are all held to a commonly understood and posted speed limit on any road. We do not have the freedom to determine individual speed limits (by law though we do all, up to a point, do this on our own anyway). The guy in this accident may have simply been in the wrong place at the wrong time but this does not exclude him from his responsibility to drive within the laws of the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I don't know what it is like in VA (I think that's where you live) but the "recertification" process here in TN is an absolute joke. The driving portion of my exam was literally going around a block making all right turns and based on location and distance we barely made it up to 30 mph at one point. I did not even have to pull into a parking space at the end. I guess this only adds further weight to your points. The counterpoint to what you are saying is simply that to drive properly requires significant attention and at times quick reactions. I suppose anything that detracts from either should face some level of examination including self determination. BAC is a measurable thing and I believe there would be universal agreement that there needs to be some threshold to determine when you can't drive. Whether .08 is correct, to your points, is debatable. However, this is not unlike speed limits. Your eyesight and reactions (possibly even the design and functioning of your car) might allow you to drive faster, but more safely, than others. Still we are all held to a commonly understood and posted speed limit on any road. We do not have the freedom to determine individual speed limits (by law though we do all, up to a point, do this on our own anyway). The guy in this accident may have simply been in the wrong place at the wrong time but this does not exclude him from his responsibility to drive within the laws of the road. good points all..hard to know the right answer I think you're building in way to many escape clauses which only certain people will wind up getting. Subjective laws wind up being judged subjectively. I get that..but i may be physically more able to drive at .09 than some skinny little thing at .07...thats the problem I have...but as noted we have to have some kind of law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 few weeks ago a young high school girl died in a car accident. Reports are that she crossed the center line and crashed with another car, she subsequently died at the hospital. Turns out the other car in the accident was driven by a guy who tested above the legal limit for alchol. On top of that he was charged with 'leandras law'(?), he dropped his 12 year old daughter off at a friends house earlier and as a result they slapped that additional charge on him. While I never condone drunk driving and it breaks my heart that a young life was lost. The guy is being villified despite the fact that the young girl crossed the center line crashing into him. I cannot reiterate too many times that the guy tested above the legal alcohol limit and should not have been behind the wheel I just find this to be a very troubling story based on the circumstances involved all around....I don't have any attachment to any of the people or families involved, but its a very bizarre story and I am trying to figure out how to react internally.... the story What's the conflict? He's been charged with DWI. So? He was DWI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 She was on Totman, going across Northern Blvd, guessing she was heading north to go home. He was heading south on Northern. So he probably t-boned her into the median. Also from the story comments, it's been mentioned he did not have his lights on. Since the accident happened around 7:45pm, it would have been very dark out this time of year. Using Google Street View, there are no street lights in that area. Mentioned or verified?? If he didn't have his lights on, he's 100% at fault and deserving of everything that's coming to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Mentioned or verified?? If he didn't have his lights on, he's 100% at fault and deserving of everything that's coming to him. Mentioned, I've reached out to a couple of reporters to see if they can verify it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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