NoSaint Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 If I'm a player and see the Rodgers and Matthews commercials how do you not want to come up with a good celebration that lands me a commercial. Cause let's face it, football end up being a very short part of a players lives and they are thinking long term. Most think entertainment business. So his thing is being the guy fined for writing on his shirt? You do realize those fines do escalate, and can go to suspensions. Not a great "signature celebration"
GG Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Chan had no alternative, he had warned the team that the next excessive celebration penalty would result in a benching. Is that what you're questioning - whether Chan should have set that rule out to the team? Once you warn, you need to follow through, don't you agree? I don't think you can turn into a street lawyer and say "well, I said that, but the penalty was lame so I won't apply it in this instance". Yes, and Gailey boxed himself in with the excessive rule. You can send the same message with a series, quarter, or half benching. Entire game? I don't think there would be as much discussion if SJ was benched for the first half. But the Bills had absolutely no life in them in the 3rd quarter and I'm betting that a big part was being deflated in knowing that they didn't have all weapons available. At a certain point, rules and penalties become self-defeating and that's the risk Gailey ran and it backfired on him.
NoSaint Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 That is ultimately true. I personally wish he acted like Barry Sanders. I don't think it was a smart thing to do at all, and wish he would never do any endzone celebrations of any kind. I think of those things like most people, it's selfish and showboating and unnecessary. Again, I hated hated hated the Plaxico thing and bitched endlessly about how stupid that and he was. My feeling on this one, however, is that there was a VERY good reason why he thought it was ok and not breaking Chan's or the league's rules. It's a rationale not an excuse. he flat should not have done it at all. Ultimately I don't think we are far apart in how we view the situation. I'm even fine with a dance, spike, or crowd jump.... Just keep it VERY legal.
BRH Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Kids at 9 like to please their parents and authority figures, they respond positively to fair treatment. At some point most kids will challnge the status quo, which is normal and good. Enjoy! I know, I know. I have a 12-year-old daughter too. But I can tell you that I've seen plenty of 9-year-olds who very obviously have never been told to listen to their coaches or to display good sportsmanship. I've seen kids hit home runs and do the "Jet move" as they run around the bases, arms spread like Sanchez or Holmes. Makes me sick. Fortunately in baseball there is the great equalizer. It's called a fastball in the ribs. In a few years they'll learn.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 So his thing is being the guy fined for writing on his shirt? You do realize those fines do escalate, and can go to suspensions. Not a great "signature celebration" Do you think the league has a responsibility in the Why So Serious? fine to let Johnson know that a penalty should have been called but wasn't, or that writing on tee-shirts is against the rules and will result in a penalty and a fine? Especially because they review all these things and know full well no penalty was called? And know full well there is no penalty called on players doing things to their uniforms, just fines?
NoSaint Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Yes, and Gailey boxed himself in with the excessive rule. You can send the same message with a series, quarter, or half benching. Entire game? I don't think there would be as much discussion if SJ was benched for the first half. But the Bills had absolutely no life in them in the 3rd quarter and I'm betting that a big part was being deflated in knowing that they didn't have all weapons available. At a certain point, rules and penalties become self-defeating and that's the risk Gailey ran and it backfired on him. Short sighted.... If Stevie thinks twice next year then it was WELL worth it. We will see.
Wayne Cubed Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 So his thing is being the guy fined for writing on his shirt? You do realize those fines do escalate, and can go to suspensions. Not a great "signature celebration" I'm not saying it was a good celebration, one that would do much for him, but I get what they are trying to do. It's entertainment in the end.
NoSaint Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Do you think the league has a responsibility in the Why So Serious? fine to let Johnson know that a penalty should have been called but wasn't, or that writing on tee-shirts is against the rules and will result in a penalty and a fine? Especially because they review all these things and know full well no penalty was called? And know full well there is no penalty called on players doing things to their uniforms, just fines? I think so, but we also know we can't count on that. Starcaps anyone? Further, we have no idea what the league told him beyond what he says, and even that's based off his interpretations. That post was in regards to Stevie trying to find his Rodgers belt celebration, or clay Matthews one- if his results in escalating fines, it's not practical and a poor argument for Wayne to be making Edited January 2, 2012 by NoSaint
stevestojan Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Here is Stevie's own words in explanation. He doesn't try to make excuses. I predict 100 posters will have 101 different reads on it. It's pretty interesting. http://www.buffalobills.com/media-center/videos/Stevie-Johnson-on-Getting-Benched/79b33c49-eb77-46a2-9d51-6210d5cb0bb4 Well I'll be damned. Watching that video made me reconsider my position on this. Seriously.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 I think so, but we also know we can't count on that. Starcaps anyone? Further, we have no idea what the league told him beyond what he says, and even that's based off his interpretations. I know he is not an Academic All-American, and even if he makes some criminally dumb decisions he is not a dumb guy. I don't think there is a chance in hell they told him it was a penalty, and he just either ignored it or forgot it. I just don't think that is a reasonable possibility. Gailey surely never saw a rule stating you couldn't do that.
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Short sighted.... If Stevie thinks twice next year then it was WELL worth it. We will see. Or maybe the players "gave up" because the coaches were rotating in a lot of second stringers during the game, especially on defense. Then again, maybe the George Edwards "Cluster!@#$" defensive system wasn't really well suited to stopping Tom Brady for 4 quarters. Nah.
NoSaint Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 I know he is not an Academic All-American, and even if he makes some criminally dumb decisions he is not a dumb guy. I don't think there is a chance in hell they told him it was a penalty, and he just either ignored it or forgot it. I just don't think that is a reasonable possibility. Gailey surely never saw a rule stating you couldn't do that. I was meaning along the lines of phrases like "escalating consequences" definitely being involved or even noting the phrase "illegal celebration" instead of "uniform violation" more specifically being a possible way the NFL could tell him and it get lost in translation..
Wayne Cubed Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 That post was in regards to Stevie trying to find his Rodgers belt celebration, or clay Matthews one- if his results in escalating fines, it's not practical and a poor argument for Wayne to be making I think that's pretty obvious that if his celebration results in a penalty that it isn't a marketable one. Problem is the league is inconsistent with what they deem a penalty. One year it isnt, and they never told Stevie he should have had a penalty or anything, but then next year it's suddenly a penalty. Stevie goes to celebrate in a way he thought he could, get some attention(which is what most players do) and now it's a penalty. Chan was just as confused about it.
GG Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Short sighted.... If Stevie thinks twice next year then it was WELL worth it. We will see. Point would be served if he was coaching a bunch of 12 year olds in life lessons and fair play. Harder explanation to an impatient 90-yr old owner who needs to fill 70,000 seats next year with a franchise that only won 10 games over two years.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 I like that Stevie didn't quit on the team like Santonio Holmes did today for the Jets. Indeed when they went to shots of Stevie on the sidelines, you could see that he was not moping, that he was intent on the game and often standing on the edge of the field and being animated… like a kid trying to convince his coach to put him back in. I've forgiven Stevie in the aftermath of this lost season and hope like hell that he's back with the team next season redeeming himself as well as the team's belief in him.
NoSaint Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 I think that's pretty obvious that if his celebration results in a penalty that it isn't a marketable one. Problem is the league is inconsistent with what they deem a penalty. One year it isnt, and they never told Stevie he should have had a penalty or anything, but then next year it's suddenly a penalty. Stevie goes to celebrate in a way he thought he could, get some attention(which is what most players do) and now it's a penalty. Chan was just as confused about it. Again, it's an escalating fine that eventually ends in suspension even if it's not a penalty. Victor Cruz has his music played on NBC in less then a season. Stevie has how many flags in his 2? How many fines? It's not that hard man. I like that Stevie didn't quit on the team like Santonio Holmes did today for the Jets. Indeed when they went to shots of Stevie on the sidelines, you could see that he was not moping, that he was intent on the game and often standing on the edge of the field and being animated… like a kid trying to convince his coach to put him back in. I've forgiven Stevie in the aftermath of this lost season and hope like hell that he's back with the team next season redeeming himself as well as the team's belief in him. I love that attitude. Hopefully he just missed a few lessons along the way and can clean it up but keep the enthusiasm.
Bob in STL Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 The first thing Chan said in his post conference was that he was disappointed in the rules, that Stevie did it last year and it was ok, and now he does the same thing and it's not. He understood that, and didn't think he should have gotten a penalty. But he had laid down the rule and the rule was if you get a penalty you're out. Why would Stevie think it was outside the rules, meaning get a penalty. Again, you alter your uniform they fine you, they do not give you a penalty. He did not say he was disappointed in the rule, although he was asked if he was. He said which rule are they referring to? --- last year (no flag) and this year (flag). Chan clearly said "I cannot argue the grey area of it" referring to the rule. He told the team if you get a penalty as a result of illegal demonstration then you are out of the game. He had to do it and it was the right thing to do. Johnson stated many times in his interview that he hurt his team. Yet, he also said he is not embarassed by it. I think this speak volumes of his mindset. Johnson is a nice kid, Chan admits to that, but Johnson is childish in his approach to the game and he may never see the big picture. I like that Stevie didn't quit on the team like Santonio Holmes did today for the Jets. Indeed when they went to shots of Stevie on the sidelines, you could see that he was not moping, that he was intent on the game and often standing on the edge of the field and being animated… like a kid trying to convince his coach to put him back in. I've forgiven Stevie in the aftermath of this lost season and hope like hell that he's back with the team next season redeeming himself as well as the team's belief in him. Sad and true.
Beerball Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 I think that's pretty obvious that if his celebration results in a penalty that it isn't a marketable one. Problem is the league is inconsistent with what they deem a penalty. One year it isnt, and they never told Stevie he should have had a penalty or anything, but then next year it's suddenly a penalty. Stevie goes to celebrate in a way he thought he could, get some attention(which is what most players do) and now it's a penalty. Chan was just as confused about it. IMO it's worse than what you suggest. It isn't that it wasn't a penalty last season than this season it was. To last year's crew it wasn't a penalty and to this crew (back judge) it was. I looked through all of the rule changes and there weren't any to unsportsmanlike conduct. This is a simple interpretation by one guy. To him the writing on the shirt was a prop.
NoSaint Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 IMO it's worse than what you suggest. It isn't that it wasn't a penalty last season than this season it was. To last year's crew it wasn't a penalty and to this crew (back judge) it was. I looked through all of the rule changes and there weren't any to unsportsmanlike conduct. This is a simple interpretation by one guy. To him the writing on the shirt was a prop. Or the refs were told they blew the call last time. Or there's some other line that we as fans may be overlooking,
NewEra Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 1325480384[/url]' post='2351491']I like that Stevie didn't quit on the team like Santonio Holmes did today for the Jets. Indeed when they went to shots of Stevie on the sidelines, you could see that he was not moping, that he was intent on the game and often standing on the edge of the field and being animated… like a kid trying to convince his coach to put him back in. I've forgiven Stevie in the aftermath of this lost season and hope like hell that he's back with the team next season redeeming himself as well as the team's belief in him. That's a big part of this situation that is overlooked by many. The people that hate on Stevie are saying he's a "me" guy. Meanwhile, in the midst of a very frustrating time, it wasn't about "him" it was about the team. He was rooting hard for his team in a situation where most players may be frustrated. He has moments of "why'd you do that Stevie?" but overall he is a great teammate that is respected in the locker room and MOST is all, he's our most talented WR. Now, out most talented WR will probably dismiss a hometown discount and go for greener pastures. I hope like hell he's back with us too, but I'd be happy for the guy if he signed with his real home team (49ers) for more than 7.5 mill and won himself a ring and was a part of of winning team...for once. You can applaud chan all you want for his benching and sticking to his "guns", but the reality is, his "guns" won't mean jack after next season when he's an OC or less than OC. He will likely never be a HC again. Meanwhile we probably just lost our only good WR so our HC for one more year can prove his point. I'm not happy about it. This is 2012, not 1974. Having players that celebrate and get penalties isn't the reason our team has sucked for so long. It's bad coaching and bad scouting. Period. So let's piss off one of our best WRs in the last 20 years.
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