Kelly the Dog Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Andre: http://www.pro-footb.../R/ReedAn00.htm Eric: http://www.pro-footb.../M/MoulEr00.htm Yeah, it's two years in a row that he was the first. Still, it's a pretty good stat.
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 I don't think people realize how unusual 1000 yards receiving was before say 2000
Lurker Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Yeah, it's two years in a row that he was the first. Still, it's a pretty good stat. Then again, it's a more pass happy league today. Fitz ended the year with 3,800+ passing yards...nearly equaling Kelly's best year (3,844) in 1991.
Bob in STL Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 This is a very interesting thread. I actually sense a generation gap here on TSW. I suspect that many of the guys that think Stevie did nothing wrong are younger and many of the ones that are upset with him are older. I am sure there is some blending across the age demographic but probably not too much. I think the guys that are looking closely at the rules and arguing that he should have received a fine but not a penalty are missing the point. Even if you are correct in your interpretation of the rule you are still missing the point. I also doubt I can convince any of you that this is true. As a father three (ages 20, 22, and 24) I know that there is a big gap in how the generations look at things, as there was when I was younger. Stevie has already been under scrutiny with the league for his celebrations. Chan had already put a rule out there that he would bench the next player that received a fine. Stevie's twitter account verifies that he pre-planned this and knew that he would be fined. Unfortunately for him, and his team, the ref saw it another way and made the call. I am proud of Chan for sticking to his guns. I think some of the veterans need to back up Chan and have a talk with Stevie. I doubt this will happen though. I don’t see that kind of leadership on this team. Stevie Johnson will go on to get a big fat contract one way or another. I hope he stays a Bill because he is one of the better players on the team. I do not think he is a great player but he is much better than any receiver we have today. I fear that the Bills will let him walk and we will have another big whole to fill.
BRH Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 This is a very interesting thread. I actually sense a generation gap here on TSW. I suspect that many of the guys that think Stevie did nothing wrong are younger and many of the ones that are upset with him are older. I am sure there is some blending across the age demographic but probably not too much. I think the guys that are looking closely at the rules and arguing that he should have received a fine but not a penalty are missing the point. Even if you are correct in your interpretation of the rule you are still missing the point. I also doubt I can convince any of you that this is true. As a father three (ages 20, 22, and 24) I know that there is a big gap in how the generations look at things, as there was when I was younger. Stevie has already been under scrutiny with the league for his celebrations. Chan had already put a rule out there that he would bench the next player that received a fine. Stevie's twitter account verifies that he pre-planned this and knew that he would be fined. Unfortunately for him, and his team, the ref saw it another way and made the call. I am proud of Chan for sticking to his guns. I think some of the veterans need to back up Chan and have a talk with Stevie. I doubt this will happen though. I don’t see that kind of leadership on this team. Stevie Johnson will go on to get a big fat contract one way or another. I hope he stays a Bill because he is one of the better players on the team. I do not think he is a great player but he is much better than any receiver we have today. I fear that the Bills will let him walk and we will have another big whole to fill. I will say again, as I did earlier in this thread, that my nine-year-old son (who plays travel baseball at a high level) had zero problem with Stevie being sat down for the game. Perhaps this is because I have always told him, from the very start when he was playing tee ball as a four-year-old, that I had exactly two rules for him. The first was "Listen to your coach." The second was "Have fun." I told him it was quite possible to do both, and I also told him that the minute he could not do both was the minute he was done playing. Stevie seems to have internalized the second rule but not the first. There is a reason I put those rules in that order. My kid gets it, and I thank Chan Gailey for reinforcing it.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 This is a very interesting thread. I actually sense a generation gap here on TSW. I suspect that many of the guys that think Stevie did nothing wrong are younger and many of the ones that are upset with him are older. I am sure there is some blending across the age demographic but probably not too much. I think the guys that are looking closely at the rules and arguing that he should have received a fine but not a penalty are missing the point. Even if you are correct in your interpretation of the rule you are still missing the point. I also doubt I can convince any of you that this is true. As a father three (ages 20, 22, and 24) I know that there is a big gap in how the generations look at things, as there was when I was younger. Stevie has already been under scrutiny with the league for his celebrations. Chan had already put a rule out there that he would bench the next player that received a fine. Stevie's twitter account verifies that he pre-planned this and knew that he would be fined. Unfortunately for him, and his team, the ref saw it another way and made the call. I am proud of Chan for sticking to his guns. I think some of the veterans need to back up Chan and have a talk with Stevie. I doubt this will happen though. I don't see that kind of leadership on this team. Stevie Johnson will go on to get a big fat contract one way or another. I hope he stays a Bill because he is one of the better players on the team. I do not think he is a great player but he is much better than any receiver we have today. I fear that the Bills will let him walk and we will have another big whole to fill. Not fine, penalty. Gailey's rule was if a player gets an excessive celebration penalty, if it hurts the team, the guy would be benched. Again, Stevie knew he would be fined. For what it's worth, I was absolutely furious at Stevie Johnson for the Plaxico and Jet rolling in the endzone celebration. I screamed like a banshee at him, and think it was one of the most asinine and stupid and selfish things I have ever seen a Bill do. There was absolutely ZERO excuse for it. None. I HATED that. I happen to take things on an individual basis though, and while I think this was foolish and unnecessary, it wasn't as dumb or defiant as I think a lot of posters do. And he is not a bad guy, he's a good guy.
GG Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 This is a very interesting thread. I actually sense a generation gap here on TSW. I suspect that many of the guys that think Stevie did nothing wrong are younger and many of the ones that are upset with him are older. I am sure there is some blending across the age demographic but probably not too much. I think the guys that are looking closely at the rules and arguing that he should have received a fine but not a penalty are missing the point. Even if you are correct in your interpretation of the rule you are still missing the point. I also doubt I can convince any of you that this is true. As a father three (ages 20, 22, and 24) I know that there is a big gap in how the generations look at things, as there was when I was younger. Stevie has already been under scrutiny with the league for his celebrations. Chan had already put a rule out there that he would bench the next player that received a fine. Stevie's twitter account verifies that he pre-planned this and knew that he would be fined. Unfortunately for him, and his team, the ref saw it another way and made the call. I am proud of Chan for sticking to his guns. I think some of the veterans need to back up Chan and have a talk with Stevie. I doubt this will happen though. I don't see that kind of leadership on this team. Stevie Johnson will go on to get a big fat contract one way or another. I hope he stays a Bill because he is one of the better players on the team. I do not think he is a great player but he is much better than any receiver we have today. I fear that the Bills will let him walk and we will have another big whole to fill. And you probably grew up watching Billy White Shoes Johnson dances. It was a fun part of the game, just as the wacky Icky Shuffle. Scoring should be celebrated. I have absolutely no problem with celebrations after scoring plays. Why do stadiums pipe music in? Why the hyperactive scoreboards? Why is it ok for fans to jump in their seats and high five the entire section, yet the guy who actually made the play supposed to simply walk off the field? After all, why aren't people arrested in Detroit for littering the ice with squid if we really enforce celebrations?
Wayne Cubed Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 And you probably grew up watching Billy White Shoes Johnson dances. It was a fun part of the game, just as the wacky Icky Shuffle. Scoring should be celebrated. I have absolutely no problem with celebrations after scoring plays. Why do stadiums pipe music in? Why the hyperactive scoreboards? Why is it ok for fans to jump in their seats and high five the entire section, yet the guy who actually made the play supposed to simply walk off the field? After all, why aren't people arrested in Detroit for littering the ice with squid if we really enforce celebrations? Cause they gotta be professional! Football is serious! /sarcasm
Fixxxer Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 He had a reputation a long time ago that he didnt get along with his stars in Dallas, specifically Aikman and Emmitt. Aikman has seemed to lessened his dislike after all these years and seems to put a little more blame on the players themselves than Gailey but that is not what he felt at the time. I don't think he has a big "reputation" for being a non-player coach, but it was a big problem in Dallas and likely part of the reason he was let go. His reputation is that he treats his players with respect and he is a straight shooter. Maybe he was a straigth shooter with those stars in Dallas and they didn't like it. The poster I quoted hinted that Gailey's reputation was not good, I say that is BS. Like the coach or not but respect the man.
BRH Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 And you probably grew up watching Billy White Shoes Johnson dances. It was a fun part of the game, just as the wacky Icky Shuffle. Scoring should be celebrated. I have absolutely no problem with celebrations after scoring plays. Why do stadiums pipe music in? Why the hyperactive scoreboards? Why is it ok for fans to jump in their seats and high five the entire section, yet the guy who actually made the play supposed to simply walk off the field? After all, why aren't people arrested in Detroit for littering the ice with squid if we really enforce celebrations? We are conflating two arguments here. Bottom line is the rule is the rule. It's not Stevie Johnson's role to challenge it, no matter how stupid it may be. The inanity of the rule does not excuse Stevie's willful ignorance of it. Period.
Bob in STL Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 I will say again, as I did earlier in this thread, that my nine-year-old son (who plays travel baseball at a high level) had zero problem with Stevie being sat down for the game. Perhaps this is because I have always told him, from the very start when he was playing tee ball as a four-year-old, that I had exactly two rules for him. The first was "Listen to your coach." The second was "Have fun." I told him it was quite possible to do both, and I also told him that the minute he could not do both was the minute he was done playing. Stevie seems to have internalized the second rule but not the first. There is a reason I put those rules in that order. My kid gets it, and I thank Chan Gailey for reinforcing it. Kids at 9 like to please their parents and authority figures, they respond positively to fair treatment. At some point most kids will challnge the status quo, which is normal and good. Enjoy! And you probably grew up watching Billy White Shoes Johnson dances. It was a fun part of the game, just as the wacky Icky Shuffle. Scoring should be celebrated. I have absolutely no problem with celebrations after scoring plays. Why do stadiums pipe music in? Why the hyperactive scoreboards? Why is it ok for fans to jump in their seats and high five the entire section, yet the guy who actually made the play supposed to simply walk off the field? After all, why aren't people arrested in Detroit for littering the ice with squid if we really enforce celebrations? I remember when spiking the ball just became popular so yes, I saw all of that. Don't forget Elmo Wright with KC. He had a bizzare and crazy TD dance. I don't make the rules. Somewhere along the way the celebrations got longer and out of hand. Somewhere along they way it got crazy.
GG Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 His reputation is that he treats his players with respect and he is a straight shooter. Maybe he was a straigth shooter with those stars in Dallas and they didn't like it. The poster I quoted hinted that Gailey's reputation was not good, I say that is BS. Like the coach or not but respect the man. But it is a star and ego driven league, and any coach who cannot handle the stars and their egos will not be employed for long. It's a lot easier to replace one coach than a roster full of players. You may not like it, but that's the reality.
Pirate Angel Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 I understand Chan is trying to get him to cut the BS, but he shouldn't' have been benched the whole game...Chans decision hurt the team worse than Stevie's antics
Kelly the Dog Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 I will say again, as I did earlier in this thread, that my nine-year-old son (who plays travel baseball at a high level) had zero problem with Stevie being sat down for the game. Perhaps this is because I have always told him, from the very start when he was playing tee ball as a four-year-old, that I had exactly two rules for him. The first was "Listen to your coach." The second was "Have fun." I told him it was quite possible to do both, and I also told him that the minute he could not do both was the minute he was done playing. Stevie seems to have internalized the second rule but not the first. There is a reason I put those rules in that order. My kid gets it, and I thank Chan Gailey for reinforcing it. It's hard to know. I was absolutely livid with Stevie for the Plaxico thing for several different reasons. He obviously thought before the game, if I score, this is what I am going to do. I'm sure he knew he would be fined, but didn't care and that is his right as a person. But if he thought for one second what the league would have thought about it, he would have realized they, um, probably do not want one of their players, in the endzone, revisiting and bringing to light an incident where another star player used a handgun and shot himself and went to jail for it. It was criminally stupid on Johnson's part because he obviously didn't think of what the NFL would think. He thought it was amusing (I didn't), and he had already pantomimed a cannon going off and mocked the Minutemen, which I think he also got fined for but no penalty (I am not sure about that, there may have been a penalty because he fell on the ground, which they explicitly say you cannot do. That's why the Jet thing was so utterly stupid and wrong and selfish, because he should have known you couldnt roll in the endzone. Then Chan laid down the law and said no more excessive celebrations. I would bet ANYTHING that Stevie thought to himself in the days before the game, what can I do that is not going to get a penalty, but will still get the desired result, which for him is obviously the attention. Which 90% of skill players in the league want. And then he thought to himself, I know, I will just do the thing on the shirt again, and wish everyone a Happy new Year, everyone will think that's a cool nice gesture. I would bet anything that was his thinking, what can I do that will not get a penalty, and since he didnt get one before, and it was a simple kind message, there is no way he would be breaking Chan's rule. It was unnecessary, but I don't think it was all that crazy. I would bet anything he thought about if it was going to get a penalty and then thought no way.
DrDawkinstein Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 But it is a star and ego driven league, and any coach who cannot handle the stars and their egos will not be employed for long. It's a lot easier to replace one coach than a roster full of players. You may not like it, but that's the reality. Like how Bill Belichick kowtows to players like Haynesworth and Ochocinco?
Fixxxer Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 But it is a star and ego driven league, and any coach who cannot handle the stars and their egos will not be employed for long. It's a lot easier to replace one coach than a roster full of players. You may not like it, but that's the reality. I don't see how he handled this the wrong way and I like Stevie and I would like him to be re-signed. Did you see G. Wilson and D. Bryd talking to him after the penalty? I would guess they weren't very happy with Steve's actions. Steve needs to keep maturing, hopefully he does it as a Bill.
NoSaint Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Not fine, penalty. Gailey's rule was if a player gets an excessive celebration penalty, if it hurts the team, the guy would be benched. Again, Stevie knew he would be fined. For what it's worth, I was absolutely furious at Stevie Johnson for the Plaxico and Jet rolling in the endzone celebration. I screamed like a banshee at him, and think it was one of the most asinine and stupid and selfish things I have ever seen a Bill do. There was absolutely ZERO excuse for it. None. I HATED that. I happen to take things on an individual basis though, and while I think this was foolish and unnecessary, it wasn't as dumb or defiant as I think a lot of posters do. And he is not a bad guy, he's a good guy. Frankly if Stevie takes the route of arguing that it should be a fine not a penalty then he is more of a child than I thought. Once the rule was laid down why on earth would he look for loopholes to get in trouble and get attention on espn/pft/threads on here, without technically getting a penalty. I love his energy, and passion but frankly it screams "I'm not touching you" or a variety of 8 year old games. I hope we keep him but I hope it's a Wakeup call and he grows up.
Doc Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 And you probably grew up watching Billy White Shoes Johnson dances. It was a fun part of the game, just as the wacky Icky Shuffle. Scoring should be celebrated. I have absolutely no problem with celebrations after scoring plays. Why do stadiums pipe music in? Why the hyperactive scoreboards? Why is it ok for fans to jump in their seats and high five the entire section, yet the guy who actually made the play supposed to simply walk off the field? After all, why aren't people arrested in Detroit for littering the ice with squid if we really enforce celebrations? Cause they gotta be professional! Football is serious! /sarcasm Yep, humans smashing into each other is like the symphony. You don't see the lead violinist with "Happy New Year" on his/her shirt. Or spiking his/her violin.
GG Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Like how Bill Belichick kowtows to players like Haynesworth and Ochocinco? See Belichick in Cleveland and get back to me. He changed a lot since that fiasco. Jury is still out whether Gailey has full confidence in that locker room.
NoSaint Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 But it is a star and ego driven league, and any coach who cannot handle the stars and their egos will not be employed for long. It's a lot easier to replace one coach than a roster full of players. You may not like it, but that's the reality. Who are those ego players on the saints, pack, NE, colts, etc.... You know the teams that win. I see a lot on the jets, cowboys etc... You know the ones you can count on a roller coaster with.
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