Beerball Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 You're 6-9, maybe wait until after beating the divisional rivals to celebrate? Wouldnt winning be the best thing to celebrate? Amen Bruddah.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Here are the official rules. There is nothing that he did, IMO, against these rules. (...) (f) Possession or use of foreign or extraneous object(s) that are not part of the uniform during the game on the field or the sideline, or using the ball as a prop. I dont think writing on a shirt is a foreign or extraneous object. And the referee evidently disagrees with you and feels it is an "extraneous object that is not part of the uniform". The ref has gets a flag, the fans don't, deal
Kelly the Dog Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Yes and yes, in this case. It is a piece of clothing other than his uniform, that he has to remove his uniform to showoff. I understand the confusion, but the league got him on this one. He should have known better. ESPECIALLY after the Jets fiasco. ESPECIALLY after Chan laid down his rule. Do you think he learned his lesson NOW? Or will you give him another pass next time? I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. The league stopped players from taking off their helmets on the field to stop all the shenanigans. If they lift up their shirt it is not a penalty. If there was NOTHING under his jersey but his white t-shirt, and there is no way they would call a penalty. It would not be considered a prop. Prop is short for property. A bottle of ink is a prop. A pen is a prop. A sharpie is a prop. Ink is not a prop, and if they wanted to stop ink there should be a clear rule against it. Maybe there is and we don't know about it. Again, he did the same thing, even more outlandish, and it was not a penalty.
Simon Posted January 2, 2012 Author Posted January 2, 2012 You can't use props and a t-shirt is a prop.You can't go to the ground and "crashing a jet" is going to the ground. There's no mystery or inconsistency about it and Johnson is either too stupid to get it or too selfish to care. Either way, it is a problem. Considering contributions from both K-Dog and Chan since the incident, it appears there may be some gray area where I had assumed there wasn't. As a result, I'd like to temper my words from stupid and selfish to foolish and unnecessary. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. The league stopped players from taking off their helmets on the field to stop all the shenanigans. If they lift up their shirt it is not a penalty. If there was NOTHING under his jersey but his white t-shirt, and there is no way they would call a penalty. It would not be considered a prop. Prop is short for property. A bottle of ink is a prop. A pen is a prop. A sharpie is a prop. Ink is not a prop, and if they wanted to stop ink there should be a clear rule against it. Maybe there is and we don't know about it. Again, he did the same thing, even more outlandish, and it was not a penalty. How about music? Can sound be a prop? If so, NBC earned a flag for their salsa celebration and should be forced to run silent for 15 minutes.
NewEra Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 1325467787[/url]' post='2351067']Those are all TERRIBLE examples becuase when it came to crunch time, ALL those althletes stepped up. They had issues, but they got the job done. Wake me the FIRST time Stevie does. Pete Rose compared to Stevie Johnson? Please. Rose would beat the **** out of Stevie if he coached or played with him and saw him pulling crap like he did today. "players with ten cent heads win championships.....NEVER" Seriously? You're saying Stevie Johnson has a "ten cent head" because he celebrates his tds. The guys I mentioned all made monumental ZERO CENT head mistakes. You said guys with ten cent heads NEVER WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS. Well sir, my examples are dead on and you are incorrect. Say all you want about my Examples, but each one of them prove you wrong.
Wayne Cubed Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 And the referee evidently disagrees with you and feels it is an "extraneous object that is not part of the uniform". The ref has gets a flag, the fans don't, deal Yea but the problem is consistency. You can't, not call it one time then call it another. How's a player suppose to know? Besides chan himself was annoyed at the call. He just benched Steve because that is the rule he put in place. Johnson said as much, accepted it and is moving on...
albionmark Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Selfish move on Stevie's part. He knew coach would bench Jim and did it anyway. Yes the celebration rules are dumb but they are there. He put himself above the team. 100 pct behind Channon this one.
DrDawkinstein Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. The league stopped players from taking off their helmets on the field to stop all the shenanigans. If they lift up their shirt it is not a penalty. If there was NOTHING under his jersey but his white t-shirt, and there is no way they would call a penalty. It would not be considered a prop. Prop is short for property. A bottle of ink is a prop. A pen is a prop. A sharpie is a prop. Ink is not a prop, and if they wanted to stop ink there should be a clear rule against it. Maybe there is and we don't know about it. Again, he did the same thing, even more outlandish, and it was not a penalty. Im not saying I agree with the refs. Im only trying to provide some perspective on why they called it. He didnt get a penalty last time, but he was fined. Fines get handed out for breaking the rules, even if the refs missed the first penalty. For someone who has been in the doghouse for TD celebrations, and knowing the coach's rule, and assuming you were going to get fined again... why would you do that in a divisional game? Or any game, but especially a divisional?
Wayne Cubed Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. The league stopped players from taking off their helmets on the field to stop all the shenanigans. If they lift up their shirt it is not a penalty. If there was NOTHING under his jersey but his white t-shirt, and there is no way they would call a penalty. It would not be considered a prop. Prop is short for property. A bottle of ink is a prop. A pen is a prop. A sharpie is a prop. Ink is not a prop, and if they wanted to stop ink there should be a clear rule against it. Maybe there is and we don't know about it. Again, he did the same thing, even more outlandish, and it was not a penalty. +1 This is what I was arguing earlier. It's funny that using the ball(a prop) and dunking it are grandfathered in.
Puckman5 Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) How is what he did any worse than a player jumping into the stands? I'm not a fan of "excessive" celebrations, but "Happy New Year" on a shirt and now we criminalize the guy? I guess we assume he knew it was going to draw a penalty. There are players in the NFL that have hit people with cars and shot people, but we want to run SJ out of town for this? The guys still one of our better weapons and well probably let him walk so he can go become someone elses 1000 yrd problem child. Edited January 2, 2012 by Puckman5
Kelly the Dog Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 How about music? Can sound be a prop? If so, NBC earned a flag for their salsa celebration and should be forced to run silent for 15 minutes. No, music cannot be a prop, an iPod or music player or whatever machine NBC used for their abomination would be a prop. I think perhaps they should be fined by the FCC for that salsa celebration though, under obscenity bylaws.
RkFast Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) "players with ten cent heads win championships.....NEVER" Seriously? You're saying Stevie Johnson has a "ten cent head" because he celebrates his tds. The guys I mentioned all made monumental ZERO CENT head mistakes. You said guys with ten cent heads NEVER WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS. Well sir, my examples are dead on and you are incorrect. Say all you want about my Examples, but each one of them prove you wrong. Wait a second...Stevie does A LOT more than just "celebrating" his TDs. You are misrepresenting the facts to move the argument in your favor. Hes a major disruption ON the field and off it. EACH of the athletes you use as examples, while they have had issues, did one other thing. Win. Produce. They were Hall of Fame level players...all time greats. Heck...look no further than Bruce Smith. He could be the BIGGEST PITA around. Total primadonna. Loudmouth. And selfish at times too. But oh yeah....hes also one of the best players of all time. That little thing. So these types of players...the Rodman's Smith's and Roses DO NOT belong is this discussion becuase no matter how crazy they were, no matter what color they dyed their hair, from the jump ball, or the first pitch or the kickoff they produced on the HIGHEST of levels. Johnson has some good stats and lots of ability, but has NEVER EVER shown he can perform on that high level. Yet there he is still pulling the look at me selfish crap that those other athletes do...but without that other thing that allows them to get away with it....production when it counts. So I guess it boils down to this...... You wanna act like a primadonna? Fine. But first....EARN THE RIGHT TO DO SO. Stevie hasnt done that....not even close. Edited January 2, 2012 by RkFast
albionmark Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Prop is short for property??? No. A prop is something you use to enhance a performance. I am so tired of all these players dancing and carrying on and yes that includes writing preplanned messages on their t shirts. And don't get me wrong I am a huge Bills fan and like Stevie but what he did was pre meditated and dumb, especially considering he has been in trouble for celebrations before.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Im not saying I agree with the refs. Im only trying to provide some perspective on why they called it. He didnt get a penalty last time, but he was fined. Fines get handed out for breaking the rules, even if the refs missed the first penalty. For someone who has been in the doghouse for TD celebrations, and knowing the coach's rule, and assuming you were going to get fined again... why would you do that in a divisional game? Or any game, but especially a divisional? That is not true. He knew he was going to be fined. I said it before in this thread, he has been fined by the league numerous times for these things, including some that were not called penalties and were not penalties. He was very willing to pay the fine, and did the Happy New Year thing knowingly. Apparently even his wife knew he was going to do it and she didnt care they were going to lose $5000 (which was his fine for the Why So Serious? incident. But the league didn't say it was illegal. They just fine players because they can. There is no way he thought it would be a penalty. Some of the fines the league levies for these things are not really penalties.
DrDawkinstein Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 That is not true. He knew he was going to be fined. I said it before in this thread, he has been fined by the league numerous times for these things, including some that were not called penalties and were not penalties. He was very willing to pay the fine, and did the Happy New Year thing knowingly. Apparently even his wife knew he was going to do it and she didnt care they were going to lose $5000 (which was his fine for the Why So Serious? incident. But the league didn't say it was illegal. They just fine players because they can. There is no way he thought it would be a penalty. Some of the fines the league levies for these things are not really penalties. If he thought that something he could be fined for would NEVER be called a penalty, then he is an idiot. I cant believe you, of all posters, would defend such a lack of logic. I dont care that they were ok with the fine. That's even worse, frankly. Why is it that important in a divisional game? Obviously the game wasnt his first priority, so he shouldnt be upset he got benched. He got to show his cute little shirt. Maybe he could try out for Project Runway? That's supposed to be "entertainment" too.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Prop is short for property??? No. A prop is something you use to enhance a performance. I am so tired of all these players dancing and carrying on and yes that includes writing preplanned messages on their t shirts. And don't get me wrong I am a huge Bills fan and like Stevie but what he did was pre meditated and dumb, especially considering he has been in trouble for celebrations before. Sorry. The word prop comes from shortening property. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/property'>http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/property http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prop
BRH Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. The league stopped players from taking off their helmets on the field to stop all the shenanigans. If they lift up their shirt it is not a penalty. If there was NOTHING under his jersey but his white t-shirt, and there is no way they would call a penalty. It would not be considered a prop. Prop is short for property. A bottle of ink is a prop. A pen is a prop. A sharpie is a prop. Ink is not a prop, and if they wanted to stop ink there should be a clear rule against it. Maybe there is and we don't know about it. Again, he did the same thing, even more outlandish, and it was not a penalty You had me until the bold part. The word prop may come from the word property, but it does not mean "property." Edited January 2, 2012 by BRH
NewEra Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 1325470198[/url]' post='2351170']Wait a second...Stevie does A LOT more than just "celebrating" his TDs. You are misrepresenting the facts to move the argument in your favor. Hes a major disruption ON the field and off it. EACH of the athletes you use as examples, while they have had issues, did one other thing. Win. Produce. They were Hall of Fame level players...all time greats. Heck...look no further than Bruce Smith. He could be the BIGGEST PITA around. Total primadonna. Loudmouth. And selfish at times too. But oh yeah....hes also one of the best players of all time. That little thing. So these types of players...the Rodman's Smith's and Roses DO NOT belong is this discussion becuase no matter how crazy they were, no matter what color they dyed their hair, from the jump ball, or the first pitch or the kickoff they produced on the HIGHEST of levels. Johnson has some good stats, but has NEVER EVER shown he can perform on that high level. Yet there he is still pulling the look at me selfish crap that those other athletes do...but without that other thing that allows them to get away with it....production when it counts. So I guess it boils down to this...... You wanna act like a primadonna? Fine. But first....EARN THE RIGHT TO DO SO. Stevie hasnt done that....not even close. Oh, so you can win championships with a ten cents head, IF YOU WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS!!! Now I understand....that you're just making things up as you go. You said ten cent heads win championships....NEVER. Well. You're still wrong. Ten cent heads can most definitely win championships. Change your original statement to "elite players with ten cent heads can win championships. Non elite players with ten cent heads, MAY win a championship but they have to win one first". Yeah, it makes zero sense, but that's what you're spewing. Making statements that use the word never and always are often incorrect. Don't speak in absolutes and you won't be proven wrong..
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) If he thought that something he could be fined for would NEVER be called a penalty, then he is an idiot. I cant believe you, of all posters, would defend such a lack of logic. I dont care that they were ok with the fine. That's even worse, frankly. Why is it that important in a divisional game? Obviously the game wasnt his first priority, so he shouldnt be upset he got benched. He got to show his cute little shirt. Maybe he could try out for Project Runway? That's supposed to be "entertainment" too. Fred Jackson got fined (and knew he would be) for putting "D III" in his eye black a ways back. No penalty. There are "fineable" offenses that aren't penalties and they usually have to do with uniform modifications and violations, and celebrations. I don't mind these guys being able to express a little individuality when most of what passes for distinction is by-the-book play-it-safe self-effacement/goofiness (Manning, Rodgers) or douchey excellence (Brady), or out-and-out taunting and hot-dogging (Aaron Hernandez today, Whitner or Maybin after jumping in on a team tackle 15 yards downfield). There is plenty of "work hard," "execute," "one game at a time" to go around. Stevie is only hurting the team by getting penalties that at best are inconsistently called, as both he and his coach made clear. I hope he doesn't do it again. But anyone crying for his head and saying the Bills shouldn't re-sign him is really losing sight of the fact that this is the first Bills receiver EVER to have back to back 1,000 yard seasons. We have nobody, and I mean nobody, to step up in his place, and yet fans want to run him out of town. I hope you (and I don't mean you, directly, DD) don't get what you wish for with yet another Bills talent leaving and being replaced with yet another high draft pick. Edited January 2, 2012 by RuntheDamnBall
dhg Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Does anyone think that maybe...just maybe...THIS is why the Bills haven't resigned Johnson? It might not be about money this time? PTR But they would sign a flake like T.O.?
Recommended Posts