1B4IDie Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Yeah. I wish there were a separate area for fan fantasy trading threads. "Now if we just trade 3 1st for 6 2nd and a 3rd, then take those 7 picks and my grandma's meatballs and trade them for Aaron Rodgers and BJ Raji, then Trade BJ Raji for 2 1st to St. Louis for thier 1st, Then trade one of those 1st and Fitzpatrick back to St. Louis for BJ Raji and Steven Jackson. Then Trade Steven Jackson the 2nd 2nd, and Buddy Nix for Von Miller, Tim Tebow and John Elway. Then . . . ." Edited March 1, 2012 by Why So Serious?
BillsVet Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) The folks who want to do some Oceans 11 complicated trade to get RGIII didn't watch a game last year. It was the defense and a lack of depth that led to many of those losses. RGIII won't fix either of those problems and makes both current problems...worse by giving away draft picks. Now, if RGIII were the second coming of Bruce Smith, I might be interested. If you're looking for certainties, taxes and death are your only ones. Sometimes it behooves a franchise to take a calculated risk based on research and experience. The Bills were never going to commit to trading up for even a QB, despite having no long term solution on the roster. They've wedded themselves to a journeyman for at least 2012. The Bills organization hasn't traded down in a draft since Tommy D in 2001, which IIRC, is the longest streak without moving back. Nix is set on his guy and doesn't move up or down, as evidenced by his drafts in 2010 and 2011. It's simply amazing this team has so many starter and depth needs after 2 solid years of rebuilding. Changing defenses has exacerbated the problem as new schemes require new players, while holdovers now have perhaps their 3rd scheme to learn in 4 years. Last year, the Bills became a fortress of solitude and weren't speaking to anyone per Peter King. They practice no subterfuge to convince a likely trade partner they could take their player. And if they could do this, it might get them more value for their pick in a trade. I just don't think Nix is very savvy and draft day indicates that to me. Edited March 1, 2012 by BillsVet
Ramius Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Sadly, we're not players for Griffin. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2012/3/1/2835452/buffalo-bills-are-not-in-on-robert-griffin-iii-per-buddy-nix This attitude is stupid and short-sighted. I wonder how much attitudes will change by April when the bean counters realize that only 142 people signed up for 2012 season tickets.
hondo in seattle Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Seemed like a very persuasive article. But, the argument only holds water if Nix/Whaley were resposible for those poor drafts. So the only question left is: Would you trade Spiller, Troup, Dareus, Williams and effectively Fitzpatrick for RG3? I would be shocked if Nix could stand up in front of us...tell us their going to build through the draft..and then trade his drafts away for 1 player. It's more of a Russ Brandon move than a Budda Nix move. The article recommends a Ditka-like trade. How did that work for Ditka? I agree Fitz isn't an elite QB. But to mortgage the ranch for one guy is just too much. If QB were our only problem, this idea might make sense. But we have so many needs, we can't give up 4 high draft picks for one guy. Especially when about half of 1st round QBs fail to become serviceable starters, let alone stars.
Wayne Cubed Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Considering on BuffalBills.com Nix is quoted as saying “It is absolute. It’s a no, you’ve got to give up the farm. We’re not in that business.” In regards to trading up for RG3. You'd think there wouldn't be so many of these discussions coming up.
NoSaint Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Where have you heard that the Rams want players? All I've heard is draft picks. And 8 is probably too far back, given that Miami feels the Rams are asking too much to move up. And it will at least be 2-1sts. But the Rams are in a position of power now, so waiting wouldn't be in their best interest. Of course players could be on the table but with about a half dozen teams in play, and a hazy value of the pick - it's a lot easier to peg draft picks that are (not exactly but more or less you can say next years first, or the midround picks are 6 of one or a half dozen of the other) equal value, than speculate about random players on all these rosters. Your telling me you don't think they'd accept a player? And just because it's more than the dolphins say they want to pay, doesn't mean it's more than they really would or that no one behind them values the player/picks differently.
section122 Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Sadly, we're not players for Griffin. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2012/3/1/2835452/buffalo-bills-are-not-in-on-robert-griffin-iii-per-buddy-nix This attitude is stupid and short-sighted. I wonder how much attitudes will change by April when the bean counters realize that only 142 people signed up for 2012 season tickets. Surprisingly he mentioned if they moved anywhere it would be down. I would love it. Couple that with this link and I may get my wish! http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/25/illinois-mercilus-says-bills-showing-a-lot-of-interest-in-him/
Bronc24 Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 The article recommends a Ditka-like trade. How did that work for Ditka? I agree Fitz isn't an elite QB. But to mortgage the ranch for one guy is just too much. If QB were our only problem, this idea might make sense. But we have so many needs, we can't give up 4 high draft picks for one guy. Especially when about half of 1st round QBs fail to become serviceable starters, let alone stars. HUGE difference between a starting QB and RB in terms of value.
papazoid Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 i look at RG III favorably as the next Michael Vick (without the baggage). folks significantly overvalue first round picks. look at 1st round picks as a reserve placed against your salary cap on an unproven player. if you trade your #1 pick away, you still have the salary cap space available to use on a free agent. you haven't "lost" anything. i prefer, Andrew Luck, but i still think RG III is going to be considered a franchise QB. So yes, i would swap first round picks this year AND give up two future firsts to draft either of those QB's. and for the record the OT Matt Kalil is the safest/surest pick in this draft.
DocLawless Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Sadly, we're not players for Griffin. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2012/3/1/2835452/buffalo-bills-are-not-in-on-robert-griffin-iii-per-buddy-nix This attitude is stupid and short-sighted. I wonder how much attitudes will change by April when the bean counters realize that only 142 people signed up for 2012 season tickets. I find it crazy that everyone here is so sold that rg3 is going to be an elite franchise qb. Cam newton was at least a proven winner wherever he went and I am glad we didn't draft him cause he has a horrible attitude. I'm not saying that rg3 won't be good but I just don't understand why everyone thinks he will be an elite franchise qb for a decade. He is smaller than any other qb in the league and although he will state that he is a passer not a runner he is going to the run the football and mark my words there will not be many seasons where he starts all 16 games. I can agree that we need a franchise qb soon but I don't want rg3 I'm just not as sold. I think better opportunities will come along next year without us having to give up our whole draft for him.
section122 Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Does every highly touted black QB have to forgo comparisons to Jamarcus Russell now? I can't imagine a less relevant analog. How about every one year wonder being compared to Maybin? How about every Texas player is lazy because Mike Williams was? How about every qb from california sucks in Buffalo weather because trent and rob johnson did? I can't stand some of the ignorant comparisons on this board! I really wonder sometimes if people watch football or just come here to stir sh*t up.
DocLawless Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Why not trade up for Luck? Has everyone forgotten about Luck now that RGIII ran really fast in track shoes and an unitard? If they are going to do this why wouldn't they do this in 2011 when they had the #3 overall and only needed to move up two slots to get the Arguably better prospect in Cam Newton? Exactly! Rg3 has apparently been marketed real well because everyone thinks that is going to be an amazing qb all of a sudden. If we were ever going to try to trade up I'd hope it'd be for the only sure thing qb in the draft, luck.
Bronc24 Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Yeah. I wish there were a separate area for fan fantasy trading threads. "Now if we just trade 3 1st for 6 2nd and a 3rd, then take those 7 picks and my grandma's meatballs and trade them for Aaron Rodgers and BJ Raji, then Trade BJ Raji for 2 1st to St. Louis for thier 1st, Then trade one of those 1st and Fitzpatrick back to St. Louis for BJ Raji and Steven Jackson. Then Trade Steven Jackson the 2nd 2nd, and Buddy Nix for Von Miller, Tim Tebow and John Elway. Then . . . ." I'd make that deal, but would want a three year guarantee on the meatballs.
Turbosrrgood Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Mortgage 2 drafts for him? No. If the Bills were close to being a complete team and only needed a QB then maybe, but not with the laundry list of needs that they have now. Exactly, one of the best posts I've seen on this subject yet. There are times when a team can make a huge trade like that and have it pay off. For the Bills, sure we would get a QB at the cost of everything else. Of course then he would be surrounded by an awful team, which would likely lead to his failure. Exactly! Rg3 has apparently been marketed real well because everyone thinks that is going to be an amazing qb all of a sudden. If we were ever going to try to trade up I'd hope it'd be for the only sure thing qb in the draft, luck. Yeah..Forgetting one small detail...The teams willingness to trade. STL already has their #1 overall pick QB, they want out of that spot. The Colts need a QB as much or more than any other team in the league, there is no package you could offer them that they would accept. This is all moot anyway. The Bills will be picking 10 (or if anything, later) and it will almost certainly not be a QB.
section122 Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 With all due respect, the thread asks no such question. The purpose of this thread was to reinforce what most of us already know. The Bills will pick at 10. Not at 3. Not at 17 and 21. They will pick at 10 and it will be the best guy on their board. All this talk of what they should do ignores what they are telling us they are going to do. They will pick at 10. not so fast my friend http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2012/3/1/2835452/buffalo-bills-are-not-in-on-robert-griffin-iii-per-buddy-nix "I've visited with (the Rams)," Nix continued, "but not about that. We talk to everybody, and we kick the tires on everybody, but if we were going to probably move either way, it'd be down, not up." I agree that it most likely won't happen and the Bills will stay put at 10 but I don't think it is set in stone either.
DocLawless Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Kinda like the team that drafted Cam Newton? were they not sub 500? They will be again this year too because he throws too many picks. Just like what people on here complain Fitz does. At least Fitz doesn't tell his teammates to "get on his level". What a bad attitude
1B4IDie Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 not so fast my friend http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2012/3/1/2835452/buffalo-bills-are-not-in-on-robert-griffin-iii-per-buddy-nix "I've visited with (the Rams)," Nix continued, "but not about that. We talk to everybody, and we kick the tires on everybody, but if we were going to probably move either way, it'd be down, not up." I agree that it most likely won't happen and the Bills will stay put at 10 but I don't think it is set in stone either. That's an interesting take. Since it sounds like it is as set in stone as it gets.
section122 Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 I find it crazy that everyone here is so sold that rg3 is going to be an elite franchise qb. Cam newton was at least a proven winner wherever he went and I am glad we didn't draft him cause he has a horrible attitude. I'm not saying that rg3 won't be good but I just don't understand why everyone thinks he will be an elite franchise qb for a decade. He is smaller than any other qb in the league and although he will state that he is a passer not a runner he is going to the run the football and mark my words there will not be many seasons where he starts all 16 games. I can agree that we need a franchise qb soon but I don't want rg3 I'm just not as sold. I think better opportunities will come along next year without us having to give up our whole draft for him. he is just shy of 6'3" and weighs 223 (combine results) which is not small by any means. Also he showed a steady progression in his passing skills. He went from completing 59.9% to 72.4% by his last year. 36tds to 6 ints, 3,998 yards and a 192.3 rating. That is why he os thought of as a great prospect/franchise cornerstone
DocLawless Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 Seriously? Oh I'm sorry has rg3 done something in the NFL recently that I'm not aware of? Nope hasn't played a snap yet but he is def better than Fitz right? Exactly, one of the best posts I've seen on this subject yet. There are times when a team can make a huge trade like that and have it pay off. For the Bills, sure we would get a QB at the cost of everything else. Of course then he would be surrounded by an awful team, which would likely lead to his failure. Yeah..Forgetting one small detail...The teams willingness to trade. STL already has their #1 overall pick QB, they want out of that spot. The Colts need a QB as much or more than any other team in the league, there is no package you could offer them that they would accept. This is all moot anyway. The Bills will be picking 10 (or if anything, later) and it will almost certainly not be a QB. I agree completely Indy would never do that and I dont blame them. My point is that there is only one qb in this draft that would be worth compromising two drafts and that is andrew luck. Even then he would have so many holes in the team around him and a severe lack of weapons. It's all about the team not one person. Look what Matt Flynn did with the team Aaron Rodgers has around him on a constant basis. 6td passes in one start.
I hate the Bills ! Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Does every highly touted black QB have to forgo comparisons to Jamarcus Russell now? I can't imagine a less relevant analog. To answer your Question: Yes, just as all White QB's will be compared to Leaf, Couch or a host of other failed white QB's. I didnt make the rules, Just turn on your TV, ESPN or FOX will make the comparison. You know I'm right ! Blacks have done very well in all facets of the NFL with a gaping hole at QB. Sure there are a some exceptions, like, Williams, McNabb, Vick, Cunningham, Moon, Evans, and McNair, but why are the majority of NFL starting QB's white ? I don't have that answer, ask the Owners and GM's who draft them. Doug Williams is the only Black QB Super Bowl. McNabb & Kordell Stewart, David Garrard, Seneca, Wallace, Jason Campbell, Tavares Jackson and Heisman winner Troy Smith and Mike Vick haven't yet, Vince Young isn't the star he was at Texas. Jamarcus Russsell, who isn't even the NFL anymore after being the # 1 pick. Of course there are others who have played in the Wildcat role or as backups and done well, some changed to WR, some left after a few years its a mixed bag. Black QB's just aren't as successful as white QB's in the NFL. Fans and the media will continue to scrutinize the Black QB until they start winning Super Bowl titles on a regular basis. Griffin and Cam Newton are the next in line who are being given a crack at the brass ring, I wish them both well. Edited March 1, 2012 by I hate the Bills !
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