The Official RGIII thread

[maddenboy]

teams recognize the value of a very good backup. To push your starter, to teach your starter, or just in case your fragile starter breaks down behind your fragile offensive line.

 

And if i recall, Fitz's contract wasnt that huge. Starter money for sure but not top starter money.

 

And there's still Freddy.

 

So again, TRADE fitz and maybe freddy, and some picks, to StL.

Edited February 29, 2012 by maddenboy

[ReturnoftheBuffaloBeast23]

Why can't we cut Fitzgarbage and get RG3 for 2012 1 & 2 2013 1 & 3 (hell id even throw in a 2012 4 cuz we got 2)... Then when Mario Williams hits FA get him #BOOM problem solved. All the money we have now and the money we get for kicking Fitzgarbo to the curb we'd have enough plus he'd wanna play with RG3 who wouldn't? We need a pass rusher badly so Mario fills that position. The receivers we have aren't that bad they're just not fast but they do get open. The O-line can be addressed in later rounds of this draft not all O-line men have to be drafted in the first two rounds. We will not contend with anybody with Fits at the helm. Don't let the dolphins get Manning, we already can't beat them with Matt Moore so we really won't beat them with a sore neck Manning. Don't get me started on Brady and that Jets Defense... Yea 10 more years a crap in store unless something drastic happens now..

[hammie65]

I don't believe this team can afford to do this yet and give up picks that they seriously need to fill holes that have been missing or lacking for too long now (LOT, DE, OLB, WR, etc.) Fitzy will bring this team success if these holes are addressed properly and then in a year or two get a 1st round QB to learn under Fitzy. Cam Newton did great last year and the Panthers still lost because of their other weaknesses, and they were lucky he didn't get injured badly. They may win much more this year or they may not but they didn't give up the farm to get the pick they had either. We need to strengthen our D a little more with a DE or OLB and add a couple more weapons on offense now, then address the future QB pick after that.

 

P.S. There's always an "elite franchise" QB in every draft but selling the farm to get one isn't wise IMO.

Edited February 29, 2012 by hammie65

[NoSaint]

I don't believe this team can afford to do this yet and give up picks that they seriously need to fill holes that have been missing or lacking for too long now (LOT, DE, OLB, WR, etc.) Fitzy will bring this team success if these holes are addressed properly and then in a year or two get a 1st round QB to learn under Fitzy. Cam Newton did great last year and the Panthers still lost because of their other weaknesses, and they were lucky he didn't get injured badly. They may win much more this year or they may not but they didn't give up the farm to get the pick they had either. We need to strengthen our D a little more with a DE or OLB and add a couple more weapons on offense now, then address the future QB pick after that.

 

So the argument against in this thread is outside the top 8 you can't trade up because it would cost too much but we should get our roster better than trade up later?

[CosmicBills]

I know this is a message board and people express off the wall opinions. That said, I struggle to comprehend why people bother to take positions that have little or no relevance to what will actually happen in the real world. Does anyone think we are actually going to cut a player we just signed to an extension and who has received support from the FO and HC ad nauseum? Then, we argue over this proposition for 9 pages of posts, I really don't get it. I understand talking about even outlandish ideas, like signing Mathis (which I would love), which won't happen because we simply don't attract top-tier FAs. But why spend time discussing something that has less than zero chance at actually happening?

 

Valid question.

 

Not many people think this is really going to happen. Some may wish the Bills would make a move for RG3 -- but most know the odds are long. The Rams are going to ask for too much and the Bills front office and coaching staff is not going to forfeit their own job stability by putting all their chips on a rookie QB. Especially not when they're entering the third year of a regime which has only won 10 games out of 32.

 

The reason why this topic generates so much discussion is because it speaks to the fundamental problem with the franchise: the lack of talent throughout the roster. The QB position is the most important and glamorized position in all of sports so when there's even a chance of getting a guy like RG3 or Luck, fans are going to have very vocal opinions about it.

 

How would this signing not set us back another 2-3 years? We'd have to give up at least two 1st rd draft picks and 2 more high picks as well.

And bingo -- you've just hit on what's really underlying this whole debate.

 

Your statement implies that the Bills can somehow sink lower than they currently are. But the reality that many fans are starting to wake up to is, maybe the Bills can't sink any lower. Think about it, this team has finished dead last in the AFC East for 4 years in a row. They haven't seen the playoffs in 12. And during that stretch, the Bills have won just 76 games while losing 116. That's a winning percentage south of 40%.

 

That that sink in. In 12 years, this franchise has won LESS than 40% of its games. The last time the Buffalo Bills as an organization were relevant outside of Western New York, Clinton was in office.

 

There are some fans who believe despite that jarring history, this team is only a few players away from being competitive again. But to those fans I would ask, competitive to what end? What's the goal? Is the goal just to get back to the playoffs or is it to win a damn Super Bowl?

 

If your goal is to win the Super Bowl, the one constant over the past decade since the NFL morphed into a pass-happy league, is you need an elite QB to win the Super Bowl. Why? There are many reasons. The simplest (to me) is that the NFL playoffs are now a crap shoot. If you get into the playoffs, you have a chance to win regardless of whether you're a wild card or a divisional winner. So the goal can't be just to get to the playoffs once and hope for a miracle run -- the goal has to be to build a team that's capable of going to the playoffs repeatedly. Thus, upping your odds of winning a ring.

 

Back in the days before Free Agency, you could build continuity on your team and keep its core in place. And if you didn't have a super star QB (or in the case of the NFL before it became video game football, a super star RB), you could still be a dominant team with just a great defense. But in today's game, that's just not the case anymore. There is too much turnover from year to year to keep a team together for very long. And if you try, eventually you run your team right into cap hell and are forced to undergo extreme rebuilding processes -- something Bills fans are all too familiar with.

 

But what teams can do is retain super star QBs and build around them because elite QBs make everyone around them better.

 

In order to give your team the best chance to win multiple Super Bowls, you need to make the playoffs consistently for a period of 5 to 10 years. The easiest way to accomplish that is to build around an elite QB. An elite QB is someone who's capable of masking the deficiencies of your team enough during the regular season to get you into the playoffs year after year. Once you're in the playoffs, you need a QB who is capable of getting hot for 4 games and complete passes into tighter windows when the defenses are at their finest.

 

There are some that don't agree with this theory -- but each year those ranks are dwindling as more and more start to understand just how much the game has changed since the 90s. But, for the sake of argument, let's say you do agree with that concept, then the decision to give up picks for a prospect like RG3 makes more sense.

 

Fitz isn't great, but he's decent enough. We have ZERO pass rush, need 1 lb, 2 DEs, LT, WR2, another good CB.

 

You're not wrong in stating that making this move would leave the Bills with even more holes than they have now. But let me ask you this ... what's easier to find? An elite QB or a LT?

 

The Bills are not going to contend for the Super Bowl in '13. They probably won't contend in '14 either. If you have a chance to get a franchise saving QB who has the ability to anchor your team for the next 10 years you take it -- even at the expense of your '13 season. Because what's one crummy season more mean in the grand scheme of things if you believe that the QB you're getting can usher in a new decade of winning?

 

Fitz isn't the problem with the Buffalo Bills. He's just not the answer.

 

We can't and don't sign top level FAs, so how are we going to fill all those holes if we give up what is going to require at least 4 of our top picks over the next 2 years.

 

I will say this ... and mind you, this is coming from a guy who thinks Ralph has run this franchise into the ground ... the Bills' inability to land top tier FA's has nothing to do with the front office or the city and EVERYTHING to do with winning. If the Bills start to win games, and players come to see Buffalo as having a realistic chance of getting a chip, signing free agents will become much easier.

 

Imagine how much easier it would be to coax Stevie into resigning, or Bowe or Jackson, if they knew that the Bills had someone like RG3 throwing them the ball?

Edited March 1, 2012 by tgreg99

[CardinalScotts]

And maybe one day RGIII can possibly maybe play as well as Fitz

[Bronc24]

Will Coples or Ingram or Upshaw, who people seem to want at 10 get us to the playoffs quickly?

[Alphadawg7]

Why not trade up for Luck?

 

Has everyone forgotten about Luck now that RGIII ran really fast in track shoes and an unitard?

 

If they are going to do this why wouldn't they do this in 2011 when they had the #3 overall and only needed to move up two slots to get the Arguably better prospect in Cam Newton?

 

Because unless we trade away our drafts for the next 3 years, Indy will never trade that pick...Luck is their guy 100% all the way. He is as available as Aaron Rodgers. While RG3 is 100% available at #2 as Rams have no interest in taking him.

[brenty]

RG I I I

[brenty]

RG 3

[brenty]

RG IIV

[brenty]

can we merge all these rgp forums?

[Doc]

I like that 8 is the arbitrary cutoff. Really helps your theory.

 

Maybe they'd be willing to miss out on a Blackmon if a team below includes a WR (like Stevie if negotiations breakdown) or they decide taking 1-2-4 and 1-2 next from a team is better than the pair of 1s this year. Suddenly the browns are right where they started. When you say the rams will have power, how much are you talking? Saving an extra mid pick or? How far do you think they can push the issue? Honestly we don't even know if they are dying for a guy at the top or if they really like a guy that might be around at 10-15

 

It will almost positively be two firsts.... and some recipe of mid rounders or starters to make up the difference in the packages - would you call negotiating a 3 to a 4 being in a position of power?

Where have you heard that the Rams want players? All I've heard is draft picks. And 8 is probably too far back, given that Miami feels the Rams are asking too much to move up.

 

And it will at least be 2-1sts. But the Rams are in a position of power now, so waiting wouldn't be in their best interest.

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

From recent reports, it's going to take much much more than that to move up. A better question would be, what is the maximum you are willing to spend to move up?

 

This years 1st and 2nd, and next years 1st and 3rd? What then?

Uhhh take that deal now !!

 

And maybe one day RGIII can possibly maybe play as well as Fitz

I'll take my chances. We KNOW what Fitz can't do !!!

Edited March 1, 2012 by MOVALLEYRANDY

[Bronc24]

And maybe one day RGIII can possibly maybe play as well as Fitz

 

Seriously?

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

I'm not necessarily a fan of doing this but seriously, what FA is going to want to come here with a Turnover machine @ QB and nobody in the wings?

The reason I'd be happy with a 2-1st's 1-2nd and 1-3rd trade (If that would be enough) for RG111 is that it would increase our odds of signing free agent wideouts.

I don't if I'm more frustrated with losing or more frustrated with the fans who are satisfied with being the laughingstock of the league. At least Polian had " a set" when the Cornelius Bennett trade was made.

[It's in My Blood]

Why can't we cut Fitzgarbage and get RG3 for 2012 1 & 2 2013 1 & 3 (hell id even throw in a 2012 4 cuz we got 2)... Then when Mario Williams hits FA get him #BOOM problem solved. All the money we have now and the money we get for kicking Fitzgarbo to the curb we'd have enough plus he'd wanna play with RG3 who wouldn't? We need a pass rusher badly so Mario fills that position. The receivers we have aren't that bad they're just not fast but they do get open. The O-line can be addressed in later rounds of this draft not all O-line men have to be drafted in the first two rounds. We will not contend with anybody with Fits at the helm. Don't let the dolphins get Manning, we already can't beat them with Matt Moore so we really won't beat them with a sore neck Manning. Don't get me started on Brady and that Jets Defense... Yea 10 more years a crap in store unless something drastic happens now..

 

What do the Bills do when/if starters on defense go down and we have undrafted rookies and street free agents for depth? We're right back in the same boat as last season.

 

RG3 would be nice but our draft picks are way to valuable at this point with this regime. If we were in year one of a rebuild, then yes, by all means do whats needed to get your qb because by the time he's ready to carry the team, he won't have to because we've had a few offseasons to build around him. Thats how you do it.

 

Chan and Nix have identified their qb and are building around him.

Edited March 1, 2012 by It's in My Blood

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

What do the Bills do when/if starters on defense go down and we have undrafted rookies and street free agents for depth? We're right back in the same boat as last season.

 

RG3 would be nice but our draft picks are way to valuable at this point with this regime. If we were in year one of a rebuild, then yes, by all means do whats needed to get your qb because by the time he's ready to carry the team, he won't have to because we've had a few offseasons to build around him. Thats how you do it.

 

Chan and Nix have identified their qb and are building around him.

Very depressing post.

[White Linen]

I'm not necessarily a fan of doing this but seriously, what FA is going to want to come here with a Turnover machine @ QB and nobody in the wings?

The reason I'd be happy with a 2-1st's 1-2nd and 1-3rd trade (If that would be enough) for RG111 is that it would increase our odds of signing free agent wideouts.

I don't if I'm more frustrated with losing or more frustrated with the fans who are satisfied with being the laughingstock of the league. At least Polian had " a set" when the Cornelius Bennett trade was made.

 

It's posts like this that get us laughed at. What does anything you've said have to do with "replying to drafting a WR in round 1"?

[White Linen]

RG 3

 

I don't think your in depth analysis can be disputed.