Captain Hindsight Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 What do you guys think about Jordan Jefferson? really?
Mr. WEO Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 it will take at least 1,2,3 this year and a 1 next to get into the discussion . The question is would you do it ? In OBD's hands, that would work out to, for example, a Dareus, Spiller, Troup and Carrington? For RG3? Where do we sign?
CosmicBills Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Give us your expectations of what it would take to move up to get RGIII. What would it take for the Browns to move up and would the Rams take the Bills' offer over the Browns'? More than the Bills would be willing to part with. To move up from 10 would take a 1, 2 and 4 from this year and at least another first and third in '13 (and honestly that might be light). But with so many teams in contention, it will become a bidding war and someone will over pay by giving up 3 first rounders and a player.
Doc Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 In OBD's hands, that would work out to, for example, a Dareus, Spiller, Troup and Carrington? For RG3? Where do we sign? Yeah, because RGIII has proven to be so great in the pros. More than the Bills would be willing to part with. To move up from 10 would take a 1, 2 and 4 from this year and at least another first and third in '13 (and honestly that might be light). But with so many teams in contention, it will become a bidding war and someone will over pay by giving up 3 first rounders and a player. It's less about what they're willing to give up, than it is what is sane to give up. Even if it were a 1, 2, and 4 this year and a 1st and 3rd next year, that's insane to trade for a wholly unproven player. Especially when you could probably get that from the Browns and get better picks both this year and next.
CosmicBills Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) It's less about what they're willing to give up, than it is what is sane to give up. Even if it were a 1, 2, and 4 this year and a 1st and 3rd next year, that's insane to trade for a wholly unproven player. Especially when you could probably get that from the Browns and get better picks both this year and next. You're right, and it's why I think the Bills won't make a move. But the reason why teams like Browns and Seahawks (or Dolphins) will make a move for an unproven payer is the fact that no position can turn around a down trodden franchise faster than a legit QB prospect. Personally, I haven't seen RG3 play enough (only 2 games) to have any opinion on his ability to be a success in the NFL. But if youre a GM from a team that hasn't been to the playoffs in 12 years, and hasn't been better than dead last in your own division for the past 4 and you think there's a good chance RG3 is an elite player, it's a no brained move to make. Someone will pay a kings ransom for RG3. While I don't think it will be the Bills, I wouldn't lose any sleep if they did surprise us all by making such a bold move. Edited February 27, 2012 by tgreg99
1billsfan Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 It's less about what they're willing to give up, than it is what is sane to give up. Even if it were a 1, 2, and 4 this year and a 1st and 3rd next year, that's insane to trade for a wholly unproven player. Especially when you could probably get that from the Browns and get better picks both this year and next. If the Bills did make the trade up for RG III, it will take a ton picks. However, I don't necessarily agree that it would be an insane move. They'd be telling everyone that RG III is so good that he'll immediately get this team into Superbowl contention. How's that insane if that's how they feel? The NFL favors QBs and the defenses are left defenseless. The Bills will basically be saying that we're going to beat you by outscoring you for the next 10 years. I don't think the Bills are that ballsy to make this "all in" move, but if they did I'll be down with it since I do think he'd almost immediately make the Bills Superbowl contenders. Let's face it, the AFC conference sucks and will continue to do so for the next few years. I won't be mad if they don't make the trade, but I would see it as a major statement for their desire to win the Superbowl in the very near future.
Captain Hindsight Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 See the problem with trading all those picks for one guy is you cant fill out the rest of your roster. When the saints traded their whole draft and then some for Rickey Williams they had to sign 27 FAs the next season just to fill out their roster. Your going to get more bad than good in that scenario and totally destroy your depth. Frankly I just dont think its worth it
Doc Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 See the problem with trading all those picks for one guy is you cant fill out the rest of your roster. When the saints traded their whole draft and then some for Rickey Williams they had to sign 27 FAs the next season just to fill out their roster. Your going to get more bad than good in that scenario and totally destroy your depth. Frankly I just dont think its worth it I'm with you. If he were a sure thing, I'd do it. But given the high bust rate for QB's, it's not a worthwhile gamble at all.
CosmicBills Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 See the problem with trading all those picks for one guy is you cant fill out the rest of your roster. When the saints traded their whole draft and then some for Rickey Williams they had to sign 27 FAs the next season just to fill out their roster. Your going to get more bad than good in that scenario and totally destroy your depth. Frankly I just dont think its worth it The Bills have 9 picks this year, at most they'd have to give up 4 of those this year. For argument sake let's say they give up 3 more in future drafts. That's 7 players given up for one. 3 of them first rounders. It's steep, yes, but not insurmountable. Plus, you're say it would destroy the Bills depth ... Which they have none of to start with. You can't destroy what you don't have.
NoSaint Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 See the problem with trading all those picks for one guy is you cant fill out the rest of your roster. When the saints traded their whole draft and then some for Rickey Williams they had to sign 27 FAs the next season just to fill out their roster. Your going to get more bad than good in that scenario and totally destroy your depth. Frankly I just dont think its worth it As opposed to the 20 they'd otherwise be signing? If we traded 5 picks, we'd end up 4 bodies short across two years. We aren't tight on cap so we can get a couple decent free agents additionally. Further, of those 5 picks, your talking probably one very good player, one starter, two role players and probably one guy that does nearly nothing - if you believe you are getting a more electric, military disciplined, hard working mike vick - I do it in a heartbeat. You also avoid that qb premium pay for a few years freeing up money to stock those couple extra short term holes.
K-9 Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Yeah, because RGIII has proven to be so great in the pros. It's less about what they're willing to give up, than it is what is sane to give up. Even if it were a 1, 2, and 4 this year and a 1st and 3rd next year, that's insane to trade for a wholly unproven player. Especially when you could probably get that from the Browns and get better picks both this year and next. I don't know. If an unproven OLB, drafted #2 overall in 1987 is worth a #1 and a #1 and #2 in successive drafts PLUS a former All-Pro starting RB it's hard to say what a potential franchise QB is worth in today's league. There really isn't a set market so it's anybody's guess. GO BILLS!!!
Captain Hindsight Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 As opposed to the 20 they'd otherwise be signing? If we traded 5 picks, we'd end up 4 bodies short across two years. We aren't tight on cap so we can get a couple decent free agents additionally. Further, of those 5 picks, your talking probably one very good player, one starter, two role players and probably one guy that does nearly nothing - if you believe you are getting a more electric, military disciplined, hard working mike vick - I do it in a heartbeat. You also avoid that qb premium pay for a few years freeing up money to stock those couple extra short term holes. "Absent nearly two entire rookie classes, the club's depth and special teams were decimated in the initial years after the trade. In their first offseason in charge of the Saints, then-General Manager Randy Mueller and Coach Jim Haslett used $15 million in salary cap space to sign 27 free agents and bolster the roster." http://blog.nola.com/saintsbeat/2009/04/history_shows_that_thennew_orl.html You just cant fall in love with a player. What hurt us more than anything last year was injuries and we didnt have the depth to back it up. We have to build a team
XXL Franchize Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 would you give up next years #1 pick, in addition to swapping this years #1's (2&10)? http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d82736ace/RGIII-40-yard-dash?module=HP11_content_stream Yes!!!!
CosmicBills Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 "Absent nearly two entire rookie classes, the club's depth and special teams were decimated in the initial years after the trade. In their first offseason in charge of the Saints, then-General Manager Randy Mueller and Coach Jim Haslett used $15 million in salary cap space to sign 27 free agents and bolster the roster." http://blog.nola.com/saintsbeat/2009/04/history_shows_that_thennew_orl.html You just cant fall in love with a player. What hurt us more than anything last year was injuries and we didnt have the depth to back it up. We have to build a team It's not the same. The league is different for one (new CBA). Second, I don't think it would take 2 whole drafts to make the move. At best, it's 7 picks spread out over 3 years with the bulk of them coming from this current draft. Like Saint said, IF they're convinced RG3 is the guy, it's not too much to ask for a franchise saving QB. Something this team needs more than anything (in the grand scheme) other than a new owner.
Captain Hindsight Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 It's not the same. The league is different for one (new CBA). Second, I don't think it would take 2 whole drafts to make the move. At best, it's 7 picks spread out over 3 years with the bulk of them coming from this current draft. Like Saint said, IF they're convinced RG3 is the guy, it's not too much to ask for a franchise saving QB. Something this team needs more than anything (in the grand scheme) other than a new owner. Its not happening anyway. They just signed Fitz. This whole argument is moot anyway
NoSaint Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) "Absent nearly two entire rookie classes, the club's depth and special teams were decimated in the initial years after the trade. In their first offseason in charge of the Saints, then-General Manager Randy Mueller and Coach Jim Haslett used $15 million in salary cap space to sign 27 free agents and bolster the roster." http://blog.nola.com/saintsbeat/2009/04/history_shows_that_thennew_orl.html You just cant fall in love with a player. What hurt us more than anything last year was injuries and we didnt have the depth to back it up. We have to build a team Different CBA, different position (when you hit on it, qb makes everyone look better, backs not near as much), haslett and mueller were awful in general (did I mention ditka made the pick then haslett became their coach so they brought in his guys and turned over the roster?) and last but certainly not least - you sign a ton of guys every year (while 27 seems high, in context I bet it's not near as shocking) Edited February 27, 2012 by NoSaint
K-9 Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Its not happening anyway. They just signed Fitz. This whole argument is moot anyway There are probably a lot of limiting factors for the Bills regarding their ability to make a deal to select RG3. But Fitz's deal isn't one of them given the new rookie wage scale. If the Bills had the number one pick in the draft they would take Luck and keep Fitz just the same. GO BILLS!!!
BuffaloATL Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 I would throw the house at the Rams for that pick. All picks this year, and any they want next year. Can you imagine rolling this guy out as the face of your franchise?
Doc Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 The Bills have 9 picks this year, at most they'd have to give up 4 of those this year. For argument sake let's say they give up 3 more in future drafts. That's 7 players given up for one. 3 of them first rounders. It's steep, yes, but not insurmountable. Plus, you're say it would destroy the Bills depth ... Which they have none of to start with. You can't destroy what you don't have. You're willing to take the gamble. I am not. I guess we'll see after a couple years. I don't know. If an unproven OLB, drafted #2 overall in 1987 is worth a #1 and a #1 and #2 in successive drafts PLUS a former All-Pro starting RB it's hard to say what a potential franchise QB is worth in today's league. There really isn't a set market so it's anybody's guess. GO BILLS!!! Actually Bennett was traded for a 1st, 2-2nd's, and Greg Bell, who was a Pro Bowler as a rookie, but had 2 injury-marred seasons before being traded. If the Rams were to agree to that, I'd definitely consider it.
Max997 Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Id be surprised if RG3 didnt end up in Cleveland...obvious need and they have the extra picks
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