The Official RGIII thread

[Jauronimo]

I disagree completely. The QB is the most overrated position in the game of football. All the credit when they win and none of the blame when they lose. Most of the so called "great" QBs are simply system guys who look good due to brilliant schemes and play calling. Plug and play, mix and match, Bledsoe, Brady, Cassel or Mallet, makes no difference. Look at the Ravens. Same offense no matter McNair, Boller, Dilfer, Flacco. Steady as she goes. Montana and Young were both system guys getting all the credit for Bill Walsh's genius when opposing D's had no answer for the west coast offense.

 

Teams that spend high draft picks on QBs are delusional at best, and bat guano crazy at worst. Tom Brady, 7th rounder; Romo, undrafted; Fitzpatrick, 7th rounder. Meanwhile high draft picks like Jamarcus, Leaf, Heath Shuler, JP Losman have all flamed out. LOOK AT THE STATS!! QBs don't matter, not in a run first, ask questions later game.

 

Not like I need to present more proof, but look at the 2008 Dolphins. They finished 11-5 up from worst in the league in 2007. How'd they do it? They moved that first round waste of space QB Pennington up to wideout and ran wildcat with 2, sometimes even 3, RBs on the field at one time. Unstoppable!!! Don't even need a QB on the roster in my opinion. The forward pass is a flash in the pan and soon it will go the way of Milli Vanilli, parachute pants and the pet rock. Kaput!!! Its always been a ground game, it will always be a ground game.

 

Get yourself a competent game manager, like Trent Edwards, draft a stable of good young RBs and pound the rock 50 times a game!!!!! Smashmouth football baby!!

Edited February 7, 2012 by Jauronimo

[The Big Cat]

Drew Brees was a 2nd round pick...

 

Point taken.

[Fan in San Diego]

Luck and RGIII will certainly be gone. Tann, who knows, but I don't think he's better than Fitzy. Fitz proved early in the season that he's quality. Rumors of broken ribs out there, tons of injuries at WR, OL, and especially on D after that strong start. I'd rather shore up the depth on the D front 7 and see what we really have before giving up on a guy that beat the Pats, Raiders, Bengals, Chiefs, and should have beat the SB champs NYG.

 

+1

[BADOLBILZ]

Good points. If the Bills had pretty much any defense besides ours, they win more than 6 games.

 

Defensive rankings 2011

 

26. Buffalo Bills

27.New York Giants

31.New England Patriots

 

Seriously, you guys make me laugh with your silly assertions!

 

The answer is staring you right in the face.

 

Every year, it's Brady vs. Eli or Roethlisberger vs. Rogers or Peyton vs. Brees or Roethlisberger vs. Warner or Brady vs. Eli.............there hasn't been a SB won by a non-HOF or at least record-setting QB in over a decade.........but Fitz....he is "good enough".

 

And I am a big fan of Fitz. Love the guy. Great story, tough guy, average QB.

[Bronc24]

Your theory is not completely air-tight, though. It's just not that simple. It's not a black and white issue.

 

Fitz was one bad pass (an ill-timed pick) from beating the Super Bowl champion in his own backyard this season. Tom Brady essentially threw the same bad pass, among others. So if you argue that "a franchise quaterback doesn't make the mistake Fitz did when the game was on the line," what does that say about Tom Brady's status as a "franchise guy."

 

I personally don't believe in "franchise" quarterbacks. If you buy the notion that Valentine's Day was invented to sell greeting cards, then you'll understand where I'm coming from when I say "franchise quarterback" is a concept invented by the talking heads to sell shaving cream.

 

I think the whole thing's a scam, a myth.

 

BUT, I do believe that it's only the rarest of circumstances under which the Super Bowl can be won without a statistical top 15 quarterback. And given the bondo-mobile receiving corps we fielded and the fact that the team MVP (Jackson), a guy who could been a candidate for LEAGUE MVP was stripped from Fitz's arsenal, I fully disregard the idea that it was quarterback play hampering this team, and that a change in quarterback will somehow right the ship.

 

Also, listen to players on BOTH sides of the ball talk about Fitz. Listen to Dareus' interview from last week. He's the leader. No stats can account for that, that's the kind of aurora the elusive "franchise" player you speak of brings to an organization.

 

So champion the concept all you like, champion the need for change, but I'm afraid there's just no validation in what you're fighting for.

 

 

One point at a time. The quote you attribute to me was never stated by me and, therefore, your point is moot. Fitz was two bad passes from beating the Champs, but then isn't that my point? He needs to make those throws. Moral victories do not win Superbowls, which needs to be the goal every year. "Almost" separates winners from losers.

 

You don't believe in franchise QBs. I do. Point to your two or three times a Dilferesque QB won the big one. That's fine. The QB is the most important guy on the field. Ask the Bears fans if they feel franchise QBs are important.

 

As for validation of my concept, you've done nothing to refute it except misquote me, blame an injury to FJ and state that needing a franchise QB is a myth. The minute you made the last point you truly showed how ignorant about professional football you are. And by stating you don't believe in them, you are in fact supporting my position at Fitz is indeed mediocre and certainly not a franchise QB.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Marauder24

[stinky finger]

If it wasn't for Kyle Williams, and in the instance of the NFC Championship game, it really was just one player who affected the outcome, the 49ers would have been in the super bowl with a qb who is nowhere near the level of Manning Brady or Brees. The 49ers would likely have beat the Pats also, for they are a balanced team with a ferocious defense.

 

The Bills are simply not going to do any deal for a 1st round qb, whether you want it to happen or not. Nix, Gailey, and Whaley are going to ride with Fitzpatrick to glory or to the point where theyre fired. I, for one, am glad that they are trying to build a balanced team that is made for the playoffs, not just an aerial attack with a soft defense. (Packers, Saints, Pats)

 

I have nothing to add.

 

I don't see the Niners ever getting to the Superbowl with Alex Smith. Not only will they have a tougher schedule, they'll have to beat Brees, Rodgers or Manning to get there. I know they almost did it this year, but they didn't, and chances are they won't have the home field advantage next year.

While I don't see Smith as being anywhere near elite, I do see a more capable, confident QB moving forward. That 9er D is for real.

 

Smith, I predict, will prove to be enough for them to contend.

[NastyMan]

A franchise QB is needed but so is a pass rush, way back when, Bruce Smith was here before Kelly, and that made for some good balance. If they can get a decent pass rusher in free agency, then a potential franchise QB in the 1st would be good, if not, fix the Defense! either way they have to fix the defense, Marcel, Shep, and A.Williams are solid, but more working parts are needed!!!

I don't know I think our defense will be ok next year. If some guys come back from injured reserve (like Williams, Troup, Marriman, and McGee) although I think we will cut McGee and maybe Marriman, but if just williams and troup come back healthy that might be good. I think Troup will be better in a 4-3 as DT and Marcel is athletic enough to move to DE and get a good pass ruch if you ask me.

 

Our O will be good too with Wood back we need to sign Urbik and maybe Reinhart (however you spell it i am too lazy to look it up right now), Jackson, Easley (maybe he will come about and be the number 2 we thought he could be) we still need to draft another reciever, Parrish if we keep him.

[BADOLBILZ]

You talk of boats and tides and mediocrity, then you parrot the one person who once said I am "wrong" about everything (laughable, at best).

 

You are always wrong and it is laughable. What are we arguing about?

[#34fan]

Or maybe he's someone who comes to a Bills' message board to talk about the team and gets sick of the constant bashing of players. It's funny that Eli is now some god QB, when last year he threw 25 ints (2 more than Fitz threw this year). And for all the talk of Fitz not being able to come close to Brady and Manning, he helped beat Brady and barely lost to the Giants on the road. With a receiving core led by a 7th round pick and a bunch of undrafted guys.

 

Fitz isn't an elite QB but he certainly doesn't deserve the crap fans give him.

 

Eli is FAR from a football god. The play that won him the superbowl was the first-quarter safety, courtesy of the Giants D. It's no secret that Manning is blessed to have defensive playmakers that know how to lead, and "step-up" when their season is on the line.

 

To be fair, Eli has some of the best recievers on the planet. Eli also has the accuracy, and sound mechanics to get the ball to those recievers without incident.

 

Two things cost us that game at NYG. One was poor performance by the secondary. -(In particular Drayton Florence.) The other was TERRIBLE QB PLAY. Interceptions, badly underthrown balls, -take your pick. FITZ STUNK.

 

I firmly believe that Fitz doesn't have what it takes to get this team to the next level. That's an opinion. I could be wrong. So, why don't we just find out? Bring in someone for Fitz to compete against for the starting job. REAL COMETITION. Either a talented rookie, or an experienced, free agent. Let him struggle, and face some adversity for once. Then, and only then will we discover the real Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Edited February 8, 2012 by #34fan

[C.Biscuit97]

Eli is FAR from a football god. The play that won him the superbowl was the first-quarter safety, courtesy of the Giants D. It's no secret that Manning is blessed to have defensive playmakers that know how to lead, and "step-up" when their season is on the line.

 

To be fair, Eli has some of the best recievers on the planet. Eli also has the accuracy, and sound mechanics to get the ball to those recievers without incident.

 

Two things cost us that game at NYG. One was poor performance by the secondary. -(In particular Drayton Florence.) The other was TERRIBLE QB PLAY. Interceptions, badly underthrown balls, -take your pick. FITZ STUNK.

 

I firmly believe that Fitz doesn't have what it takes to get this team to the next level. That's an opinion. I could be wrong. So, why don't we just find out? Bring in someone for Fitz to compete against for the starting job. REAL COMETITION. Either a talented rookie, or an experienced, free agent. Let him struggle, and face some adversity for once. Then, and only then will we discover the real Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

That's why I laugh at all this overreaction stuff. Eli has maybe 2 years which were considered "elite" out of 8. This year was far and wide his best year. He led the NFL in INTs the previous year and was a huge reason the Giants missed the playoffs. Yet, his 7-7 team gets hot at the right time and now he's a HOFer? In 2007, he was basically carried by the defense to a SB.

 

Eli has grown as a player but IMO, he still has work to do to be a HOFer. And before this year, he was a lot closer to Fitz than Peyton. What a difference a year can make.

[KOKBILLS]

Just to add a litte perspective, the giants fans were ready to run Eli out of town during past losing seasons.... Especially before he won the first superbowl.

 

No offense...But it's over exaggerations like this that just frustrate the heck out of me...

 

Well anyway...First of all, it's NYC, and of course there is going to be differing opinion...It's a tough, maybe the toughest Market when it comes to scrutiny...It's a massive Market with a small but VERY vocal bunch of loud mouth idiots on Sports Talk Radio that know next-to-nothing...But I'm pretty sure the majority did not want to run Eli out of Town before that 1st SB...He had gone 20-19 in his first 2 1/2 years as a Starter and got the Giants to the Playoffs twice...6 of those 19 losses came when he was thrown in as a Rookie...

 

Just saying...

[markgbe]

Perhaps the dumbest thing written here and that's saying something.

 

I have been outspoken about our need for a franchise QB and have argued vehemently about how I believe Fitz will never take this team to the playoffs regardless of the talent around him. People (PDad) have taken this to believe I hate Fitz and wish him to fail. Nothing is further from the truth. I want Fitz, if he is our QB, to win a Superbowl. However I am a realist and do not believe Fitz can get us to the playoffs, let alone a Superbowl. People can disagree, that's fine.

 

I have read endless reports on how Eli was almost run out of town, blah blah, blah. No doubt Eli has a better supporting cast. No doubt his defense is great. But Fitz is no Eli, no Brees, no Brady. But anyone who thinks Fitz even approaches his level knows nothing about football. Fitz has always been and always will be average at best. We will never get to the promised land with him. Period.

 

yawn.... you're wrong, the end.

 

More proof that an elite QB won't solve all of our problems? sure... Saints this year and last. Ousted from the playoffs by 49ers this year, Seahawks last year. Neither had elite QBs. Wow... indeed it looks like an elite high scoring offense can't win superbowls alone like you claim they can....

[Bronc24]

yawn.... you're wrong, the end.

 

More proof that an elite QB won't solve all of our problems? sure... Saints this year and last. Ousted from the playoffs by 49ers this year, Seahawks last year. Neither had elite QBs. Wow... indeed it looks like an elite high scoring offense can't win superbowls alone like you claim they can....

 

Just highlited why I am correct. And where, in any post I have ever written, do I ever say high flying offenses win Superbowls alone? Where have I ever written that we are a Superbowl team with only a franchise QB? The past two guys who have attempted to prove me wrong have fabricated fictitious things I have never stated to prove their point. When you come across some concrete evidence, let me know. Until then, STFU.

 

I will be the FIRST PERSON to come here and say, "I was wrong" if Fitz takes us to the playoffs. I hope I have to do it because it means we ended our playoff drought. I just don't see it happening with Fitz at the healm, an argument I will not back away from until I am proven wrong.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Marauder24

[machinegun12]

Ask Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson !!!!!!!! Or ask Jim Kelly if being a Elite NFL QB is all you ned to be to win a super bowl !!!!!!

 

That could be why it's a TEAM sport !!!!! YA THINK ??

Dilfer and Johnson are in the minority here...and look at those defenses that they played with. Look at the studs even in the last 20 years that have won SBs...Aikman, Favre, Elway, Warner, Brady, Manning(s), Rodgers, Brees, Young, Roethlisberger. All of these guys are HOFers or at the least borderline HOFers.

 

Hostetler, Dilfer, Johnson are on a very short list of non-elite QBs who have won SBs. If I'm a betting man, I like my chances with a stud rather than a dud. Even Rypien's SB season was spectacular, although his success was short-lived (think he was a 2 time pro bowler).

 

It is very much a team sport, one in which you need a great leader directing the team.

[thewildrabbit]

No offense...But it's over exaggerations like this that just frustrate the heck out of me...

 

Well anyway...First of all, it's NYC, and of course there is going to be differing opinion...It's a tough, maybe the toughest Market when it comes to scrutiny...It's a massive Market with a small but VERY vocal bunch of loud mouth idiots on Sports Talk Radio that know next-to-nothing...But I'm pretty sure the majority did not want to run Eli out of Town before that 1st SB...He had gone 20-19 in his first 2 1/2 years as a Starter and got the Giants to the Playoffs twice...6 of those 19 losses came when he was thrown in as a Rookie...

 

Just saying...

 

Not only were Giants fans ready to boot Eli, they wanted Tom Coughlin gone before the first SB and even just recently he was under considerable pressure,and not just from the fans. The Giants finished this year at 9-7 and there was serious talk mid season about replacing him if he didn't make the playoffs. .

 

Fans, short for fanatics...

[Beerball]

Just highlited why I am correct. And where, in any post I have ever written, do I ever say high flying offenses win Superbowls alone? Where have I ever written that we are a Superbowl team with only a franchise QB? The past two guys who have attempted to prove me wrong have fabricated fictitious things I have never stated to prove their point. When you come across some concrete evidence, let me know. Until then, STFU.

 

I will be the FIRST PERSON to come here and say, "I was wrong" if Fitz takes us to the playoffs. I hope I have to do it because it means we ended our playoff drought. I just don't see it happening with Fitz at the healm, an argument I will not back away from until I am proven wrong.

Don't tell someone to STFU, it sounds mean.

[K-9]

... The play that won him the superbowl was the first-quarter safety, courtesy of the Giants D....

 

... I firmly believe that Fitz doesn't have what it takes to get this team to the next level. That's an opinion. I could be wrong. So, why don't we just find out? Bring in someone for Fitz to compete against for the starting job. REAL COMETITION. Either a talented rookie, or an experienced, free agent. Let him struggle, and face some adversity for once. Then, and only then will we discover the real Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

I don't want to debate the merits of Eli Manning as a QB but I'd be interested in knowing how the safety, on NE's first offensive play of the game, was the play that won it. Few games are won and lost on one team's first offensive play. NE was leading 17-9 at one point so the safety had little bearing at that point. I guess NE would have been trying to get into FG range instead of having to score a TD to win it at the end, but then the Giants would have done things differently on defense as well.

 

Like KD in CT pointed out yesterday, I think the game was won when the Giants put Brady on his ass and hurt his shoulder at the end of the 3rd qtr. He was night and day different as a QB after the play.

 

As for Fitz not facing adversity, he was the worst QB in training camp in 2010 and he was struggling to beat out Brohm for second string. I'd say that was facing adversity. Hell, he was a 7th round pick for crissakes. Making it in the NFL in that circumstance is the definition of overcoming adversity.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[The Big Cat]

So Tom Brady has been the starting quarter back for three Super Bowl winning teams.

 

In those years, here are ALL the stats that he finished in the top 5:

 

2001: Comp % (5th)

2003: Att (4th)

2004: 1st Down % (5th)

 

So did he qualify as an "elite franchise quarterback" all those years he was actually winning the big one?

(Go ahead and weigh SpyGate into your judgement)

 

And if he wasn't, in fact, an "elite franchise quarterback" during the Super Bowl years, and we can agree that Eli Manning is a borderline "elite franchise quarterback," and if you factor in Ben Roethlisberger's statistical/performance void in "his" first Super Bowl win, then from where I sit, having the best quarterback in the land is not a formula for Super Bowl winning success since 2000.

 

FE = "franchise elite"

 

2000: Trent Dilfer

2001: Tom Brady

2002: Brad Johnson

2003: Tom Brady

2004: Tom Brady

2005: Ben Roethlisberger

2006: Peyton Manning, FE

2007: Eli Manning

2008: Ben Roethlisberger, FE

2009; Drew Brees, FE

2010: Aaron Rodgers, FE

2011: Eli Manning

 

By my count, that's 4/12.

Edited February 8, 2012 by The Big Cat

[I hate the Bills !]

This is what I love about this site everyone is a know it all expert. becausae they hold down a stool at some local watering hole and played high school balll 30 years they know everything. Jagoffs!

[The Big Cat]

This is what I love about this site everyone is a know it all expert. becausae they hold down a stool at some local watering hole and played high school balll 30 years they know everything. Jagoffs!

 

I played water polo, basketball and baseball, actually.

 

But you're cool.

Edited February 8, 2012 by The Big Cat