Low Sacks Fitz or O-line?

[Trader]

Another reason for the low amount of sacks is that the Bills don't have a deep passing game, kinda the reason Lee Evans wasn't very valuable in Gaileys offense.

 

What made JP Losman & Trent Edwards look so inept so often is that Schonert would call for 5-7 step drop back passes in that "Mike Martz" scheme the Bills ran under Jauron, when they clearly weren't allowed the time to throw deep by the O lines.

 

 

So it is a combination of Fitz and scheme that have resulted in so few sacks, this O line still stinks in my view. Besides this passing offense in being so one dimensional is the reason for their failure to keep moving the ball in every game all year

 

 

 

There was an article made by ESPN this year (before Wood going on IR) which stated the Bills were the second worst in the NFL in allowing pressure after 3 seconds, so even with that short passing game Fitz still is under a ton of pressure all the time.

 

""The team that takes the shortest amount of time to throw is the Buffalo Bills Fitzpatrick, also a top-10 quarterback according to Total QBR, has to get the ball out so quickly because Buffalo's offensive line is the second-worst in the league at allowing pass pressure within three seconds in the pocket. ""

 

QB

 

 

 

http://forums.twobil...ine-in-the-nfl/

 

 

BTW, The ineptitude is still there, its just being masked by a good QB and the scheme....one of the reasons this team only won 6 games...and the offense has dropped to pathetic. Don't forget in that 40 point win the offense only scored 6pts...by the RB

This is absolutely correct of a LT is the BPA they should take him in the draft. You can't go into next season with 3 ol starters coming off surgery.

[spartacus]

NP

 

Every head coach since Gregg Williams in 2002 has ignored building the O line properly, even then Tom Donahoe screwed the Pooch with a bad pick at #4 overall with a supposed top LT in Mike D Williams who ended up at RT for 4 years. It almost makes me wonder if there isn't some prime directive by this owner to not draft O Tackles.

 

1. Fat Mike never played LT.

 

 

But like so many other picks, the bills knew better that they could change his position to LT in the NFL.

 

 

 

 

2. Your conspiracy concept about not drafting LTs is a valid concern and probably dates back to the day Bill Polian had the run-in with Ralph's daughter about drafting a LT with a premium pick. No one holds a grudge longer than Ralph. In his twisted mind, Ralph will never allow a LEFT OT to be drafted with a premium pick by the Bills- even though Polian's been gone for 18 years.

 

 

[Kelly the Dog]

Good offensive lines give QBs 3-4 seconds to throw. The Bills OL gives Fitz 2 seconds to throw. He makes quick pre-snap reads, quick decisions, knows he will not have time, and is fearless taking hits before he passes. Even QBs far better than Fitz would play worse on this team because they would not get the ball out quick enough. It's 75% Fitz, IMO.

 

That said, especially earlier in the season, the OL was playing well. for them. They didnt get penalties, there were not jailbreaks, they picked up blitzes and stunts, and they were very consistent in their 2 seconds, and sometimes they gave him more. They also gave him a little room in the pocket to step up. The second half, because of the injuries, they are not nearly as efficient or effective. Still, they could build. They seem to be really well coached. They have good size. The starters at least have some talent. They can open some holes in the run game. They are pretty smart as individuals and as a group. Not sure if Hairston has what it takes to be a starting LT in the league but we're probably going to find out.

[T master]

I think Buddy & Whaley have clicked together when finding above average people to play on the O line , last year they brought in Rhienhardt , Pears, & Urbick now & now the guy that is starting at center this week i think they have done a good job with literally beefing up the O line & this shows just how good they have done .

 

That also gives Fitz more time to look over his options which has shown when given the time he can make the plays needed to keep us in games . If we get a couple of more pieces in our draft this year which i think we will do , the team will able to win more games by keeping our opponents score down more than this year .

 

And that will turn into to wins for the Bills ---- GO BILLS !!!!!!!!!!!

[PDaDdy]

Not sure if Hairston has what it takes to be a starting LT in the league but we're probably going to find out.

 

Everyone should have a chance but I am tired of "projects" at LT. You're probably right. Bell and Hairston will be retained and they will probably go with the hot or "healthy" hand week to week. Good teams have slam dunk starter at LT. I'm not saying a probowler but a guy that they know is THE guy.

Edited December 31, 2011 by PDaDdy

[K-9]

...2. Your conspiracy concept about not drafting LTs is a valid concern and probably dates back to the day Bill Polian had the run-in with Ralph's daughter about drafting a LT with a premium pick. No one holds a grudge longer than Ralph. In his twisted mind, Ralph will never allow a LEFT OT to be drafted with a premium pick by the Bills- even though Polian's been gone for 18 years.

 

Absolute bullsh*t.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Orton's Arm]

As stated credit obviously has to go to both but I think it has become more apparent to me that other than Woods and Levitre our offensive linemen are system guys so to speak. I hate the comparison but it is the excuse that all the Maybin haters have been using regarding his performance. They claim that Maybin only puts up the number he is because of the Jets system and take away credit from the player. In the case of our offensive line I think that there is merit to that line of reasoning.

 

The players own testimonials seem to indicate that the QB is a very large factor in their performance. The system is designed to get rid of the ball quick. Fitz makes the quick decisions and does get the ball out quickly. On top of that as any smart QB should, Fitz gets the protections called out right and makes the necessary changes to help the o-lineman do their job and keep him on his feet and open holes. Obviously the lineman have to execute but they seem to be very reliant on Fitz's play and his leadership for the success they have.

 

As another poster stated I also believe that if JP Losman, Trent Edwards or a number of other guys were playing behind that line in a different system the whole thing would look a LOT different and the line would give up sacks and negatively impact the run game.

 

Does anyone know where you can find stats on QB pressures given up by the o-line? Sacks and hits are probably the only things that you can put a solid number on but I was wondering if there is a site somewhere that tracks pressures?

One of the things I noticed from your earlier list is that the Bills gave up 65 hits. The lowest number of hits for anyone on the list was 51, and the highest was 110. Just from eyeballing the list, the Bills seem to be in the top 25% or 30% of offensive lines when it comes to preventing hits. That doesn't necessarily mean that the Bills' OL is in the top 25% or 30% of OLs around the league. As others have pointed out, the Bills' system is designed to get rid of the ball quickly, thereby reducing the number of hits and sacks.

 

The pass protection stat I'd most like to see is Average Time Before Pressure. If the QB was able to wait 3.5 seconds in the pocket before pressure arrived, the Average Time Before Pressure for that one play would be 3.5. If the QB threw the ball before pressure arrived, you would add, say, 1.5 seconds to however long the QB took to throw the ball in order to calculate the Average Time Before Pressure for that play. Example: the QB gets rid of the ball in 3.5 seconds, no one on the defense created pressure before or during the throw. Therefore the Average Time Before Pressure on that play is 3.5 + 1.5 = 5 seconds.

 

If you knew each team's Average Time Before Pressure, you could rank the teams' quality of pass protection.

[thewildrabbit]

Absolute bullsh*t.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Well... I think going back to Polian is pushing it.

 

But still, the Bills have still failed to address an O tackle in the first 3 rounds since Mike D Williams from 02 to 2012, ten years man...TEN YEARS!

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, Williams played RT at Texas, but they had a left handed QB on the team so Williams was a "projected" LT

""Because Simms was left-handed, this led to Williams being projected as a top prospect for left tackle widely considered the most important position on the offensive line. He was considered one of the two top prospects in the 2002 NFL Draft, alongside Bryant McKinnie, a natural left tackle from the University of Miami.""

 

http://en.wikipedia....sive_lineman%29

 

 

Now, just think of what that Bills O line would have looked like if Tom Donahoe doesn't pull a Jauron and draft the project player. Those TEN YEARS would have been with a pro bowl LT instead of a 4 year and out bum.

[thewildrabbit]

One of the things I noticed from your earlier list is that the Bills gave up 65 hits. The lowest number of hits for anyone on the list was 51, and the highest was 110. Just from eyeballing the list, the Bills seem to be in the top 25% or 30% of offensive lines when it comes to preventing hits. That doesn't necessarily mean that the Bills' OL is in the top 25% or 30% of OLs around the league. As others have pointed out, the Bills' system is designed to get rid of the ball quickly, thereby reducing the number of hits and sacks.

 

The pass protection stat I'd most like to see is Average Time Before Pressure. If the QB was able to wait 3.5 seconds in the pocket before pressure arrived, the Average Time Before Pressure for that one play would be 3.5. If the QB threw the ball before pressure arrived, you would add, say, 1.5 seconds to however long the QB took to throw the ball in order to calculate the Average Time Before Pressure for that play. Example: the QB gets rid of the ball in 3.5 seconds, no one on the defense created pressure before or during the throw. Therefore the Average Time Before Pressure on that play is 3.5 + 1.5 = 5 seconds.

 

If you knew each team's Average Time Before Pressure, you could rank the teams' quality of pass protection.

So many variables change from game to game, different players, different styles and schemes, different techniques on the O line. Injuries to players change each game. Even different types of passing plays effect your ATBP chart. If you were to break it down you would have to narrow it down to a specific set of pass plays for each team.

 

Then you have different formations (play action vs spread) , different receivers (talent levels), different coaches. Execution of the play, was the WR jammed at the line, did he trip or fall down.

 

 

I'm way to lazy to factor in all that stuff while watching football, kinda takes the fun right out of it

[spartacus]

Well... I think going back to Polian is pushing it.

 

But still, the Bills have still failed to address an O tackle in the first 3 rounds since Mike D Williams from 02 to 2012, ten years man...TEN YEARS!

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, Williams played RT at Texas, but they had a left handed QB on the team so Williams was a "projected" LT

""Because Simms was left-handed, this led to Williams being projected as a top prospect for left tackle widely considered the most important position on the offensive line. He was considered one of the two top prospects in the 2002 NFL Draft, alongside Bryant McKinnie, a natural left tackle from the University of Miami.""

 

http://en.wikipedia....sive_lineman%29

 

 

Now, just think of what that Bills O line would have looked like if Tom Donahoe doesn't pull a Jauron and draft the project player. Those TEN YEARS would have been with a pro bowl LT instead of a 4 year and out bum.

 

go back to Polian

 

The Bills have not drafted a true NFL LT with a premium pick since Polian picked Will Wolford.

 

Even when they did spend the #4 pick on an OL, they passed on McKinney the true LT for another project.

 

Even by accident they would have drafted a LT in 18 years unless there was some agenda in place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Thunderstealer]

Gotta give an atta-good'ol-boy to Buddy Nix. Pears, Urbick and Reinhardt were street FA picks ups last season, were thy not?

 

PTR

 

Good players. The O-line was awesome before the injury plague