cale Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 The guy is about to go into his prime as a WR. Pay the man.
Beerball Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 These are early negotiations though, you never make your best offer this early. What should be a good sign to fans is that the Bills have been coming to him to start negotiations before teh season and during, and its Stevie thats saying "Lets wait til the offseason". Some players just want a deal and will take whatever is offered if its fair, some have an amount they feel they are worth and will hold out longer for that amount. My point is, the season isn't even over yet, he has told the Bills on atleast 2 seperate occasions to wait til the offseason, and the offseason is still 2 1/2 months long til anyone else can negotiate with him. Its not even close to crunch time yet. Do you think the Bills are the only team that makes lower counter offers to players? Is that what I said? No? Thanks for the clarification oh wise and mighty oz. If you think that it's a good idea to counter 30% lower without the possibility of offending the other party then have at it.
Maury Ballstein Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 The two sides were reportedly $2 million apart early in the season, though the Bills never made an official offer to Johnson. Talks were re-opened after Ryan Fitzpatrick's deal in late October, but the sides didn't get any closer. The Bills have not mentioned the possibility of the franchise tag during negotiations. Johnson's agent insists the receiver is "more than willing to do a discounted deal with the Bills because of his loyalty to the organization" and his "love for the city of Buffalo." Source: WGR 550 Buffalo What a deal.....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ship that cash......
Toshiero Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 Joe buscaglia and sal Cappaccio reporting. No link from my mobile. Check twitter @salsports not even close to being worth it.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 I highly recommend clicking on bills1960's link. It is a very thorough and in-depth report… actual journalism with sources and corroboration and history and context. A seldom-seen look into the inner workings of the Bills front office. This is must-read stuff. And this link discussing WR salaries (several notable exceptions don't show up on the list, such as Welker?) http://wgr550.com/pages/11853951.php?contentType=4&contentId=9664671 According to this information, an asking price of ~$7-7.5 million would put him squarely in the #14-#15 WR pay range, which is about where he is statistically. This really ought to be do-able for both sides, esp. if the Bills are willing to offer realistic escalator/performance bonuses and Stevie is willing to accept some of the $$ as such.
Maury Ballstein Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 not even close to being worth it. Whose your team Toshi? Mia or N.E. ?
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 Whose your team Toshi? Mia or N.E. ? Team Ignore.
Zulu Cthulhu Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) And this link discussing WR salaries (several notable exceptions don't show up on the list, such as Welker?) http://wgr550.com/pages/11853951.php?contentType=4&contentId=9664671 According to this information, an asking price of ~$7-7.5 million would put him squarely in the #14-#15 WR pay range, which is about where he is statistically. This really ought to be do-able for both sides, esp. if the Bills are willing to offer realistic escalator/performance bonuses and Stevie is willing to accept some of the $$ as such. Thanks for the link. Welker made a base $2.15 mil this year. It's safe to say he'll be getting a substantial raise. Edited December 29, 2011 by Zulu Cthulhu
Ramius Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 Absolutely ridiculous if the team doesn't re-sign him with those reasonable demands.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 These are early negotiations though, you never make your best offer this early. (...) Do you think the Bills are the only team that makes lower counter offers to players? Um, agreed, you don't start out with your best offer. But neither, in productive negotiations in this culture, do you want to start with an offer that is regarded as insultingly low. If you want $200k for your house which the comparables indicate might be worth $180-240k, are you happy if a buyer comes along and offers you $143? You point out the comparables and the appraisal and such, and they say "hey, our offer is $143k". (that's the same percentage low that being 2 million apart on a $7.5 million asking price represents) If it's a cold, cold market, maybe you talk. But if the market suggests there are other buyers out there, maybe you tell them "c'mon man" and it chills the atmosphere.
billieve79 Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 7.5 mil per for 4/5 years is fine by me. Watching his routes against Revis convinced me he's a star. I believe he's genuine in his love for the Bills and the city of Buffalo. He wants to be here and be a part of this thing. He's a big name around the league. It all adds up to the fact that you have to pay the man!!!!
NoSaint Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 From day one Nix stressed the importance of good drafting and making sure that you retain those who have proven to be a starter on this team. Not resigning him goes against his most basic ideology as a GM. If you're not going to be active in Free Agency, then you have to make this deal. 7.5 million is a total bargain for a guy with Johnson's abilities. Not to mention he's a team leader and, unlike many other former Bills, actually enjoys living in the city of Buffalo. The only thing that stands out is nix didn't draft him. He pre-dates this regime. I also think 7.5 is fair, not a bargain. I've been leaning 5 for 35ish which is pretty in line
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Um, agreed, you don't start out with your best offer. But neither, in productive negotiations in this culture, do you want to start with an offer that is regarded as insultingly low. If you want $200k for your house which the comparables indicate might be worth $180-240k, are you happy if a buyer comes along and offers you $143? You point out the comparables and the appraisal and such, and they say "hey, our offer is $143k". (that's the same percentage low that being 2 million apart on a $7.5 million asking price represents) If it's a cold, cold market, maybe you talk. But if the market suggests there are other buyers out there, maybe you tell them "c'mon man" and it chills the atmosphere. Maybe you laugh and ask them if they can limbo any lower while speed dialing someone serious.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Thanks for the link. Welker made a base $2.15 mil this year. It's safe to say he'll be getting a substantial raise. Either that, or he has a contract with a low base and a high ceiling of performance incentives.
NoSaint Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Either that, or he has a contract with a low base and a high ceiling of performance incentives. If I remember correct He signed a 5 for like 20 when he was a nobody traded from the dolphins. Also 5 years later, average salaries darn near doubled.
Zulu Cthulhu Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Either that, or he has a contract with a low base and a high ceiling of performance incentives. Yeah I couldn't find any info on his escalators; I'm sure he's hit all of them.
nbash Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Well I'm in that group that thinks $7.5 million per is a bargain price. I'll be quite pissed off if we lose the only legit starting NFL WR on this team by undervaluing him. And don't forget we got the last two seasons of great production at a super cheap price
Maury Ballstein Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 The only thing that stands out is nix didn't draft him. He pre-dates this regime. I also think 7.5 is fair, not a bargain. I've been leaning 5 for 35ish which is pretty in line I spend my money on my Bills jerseys, Caps, all sorts of other dumb things......All of this $$$$$$$ ends up in RW's pockets.....I could care less if we paid him 7mil or 300 mil.....its not my money baaaaaa--beeee....not sure why some of you care about the deal so much.......if it doesn't cripple Buff's ability to sign a little other talent let's stroke that check and move on..... GO BILLS! next year again... ha
Nostradamus Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 Whatever the Bills do is the wrong thing. They let Whitner walk? Mistake. They extend Lee Evans? Overpaid. Sign Fitz? Too early and he sucks. I'm sure the Bills will be wrong for signing/not signing Johnson as well. PTR Not everything. But most things. The proof is them being the only 1 of 32 league teams not to make the playoffs for 12 years in a row. Johnson was already factoring in a hometown discount asking for 7.5. For the Bills to not realize that and try to get it done then was a huge mistake. Johnson will now hit the market after Sunday with back-to-back 1,000 yard seasons. He has no financial incentive to sign with the Bills at this point at the exclusion of hearing other offers. With an ever-increasing salary cap, some team will almost definitely offer him more than 7.5 in the initial spending spree of free agency. Johnson is not Donte Whitner or even Paul Poslusny, who made out very well on the open market. Johnson has had two straight very successful seasons in which he hit the benchmark for wide receivers with over 1,000 yards. He is, and will continue to be, productive. For Buffalo to allow it to get to this point, when 7.5 would have definitely got it done and they could have probably got him down to 7, is a huge mistake. I
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) Um, agreed, you don't start out with your best offer. But neither, in productive negotiations in this culture, do you want to start with an offer that is regarded as insultingly low. If you want $200k for your house which the comparables indicate might be worth $180-240k, are you happy if a buyer comes along and offers you $143? You point out the comparables and the appraisal and such, and they say "hey, our offer is $143k". (that's the same percentage low that being 2 million apart on a $7.5 million asking price represents) If it's a cold, cold market, maybe you talk. But if the market suggests there are other buyers out there, maybe you tell them "c'mon man" and it chills the atmosphere. Not only is an insulting lowball offer a bad idea in any negotiation, but there's also the element of a deadline before he hits the open market… there's a time element, a window where the team has exclusive negotiating rights. By flirting with the expiration of his contract it's almost like they're asking to lose him, IMO. Either that, or he has a contract with a low base and a high ceiling of performance incentives. Stevie's people have stated that his asking price is based somewhat on a "hometown discount." NFL players rightly play for that guaranteed money because of the extremely hazardous nature of their profession. I seriously doubt Stevie and his people will be interested in anything approaching an "incentive-laden contract." JMO. Edited December 30, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan
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