Best Player Available Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 Between that one, and constantly mis typing the word THE as TEH......... Its negotiations, you always counter with something much lower then what the other is offering and go from there. I personally think that Stevie is worth more in the $5-6 mil range like the Bills do because I believe he is more of a #2 WR then a #1, and that his numbers are inflated by being the best WR of a no name WR core, and an offence that loves to throw the ball. He doesn't make those spectacular catches you see the top guys making, and has dropped multiple "easy" (for an NFL WR) catches in critical situations in his short 2 year career. 5 years at $25 to 30 mil, with a $10 to 15 mil signing bonus is around what I would offer him Probably, your simplistic logic is just one of the many reasons you're not a NFL GM. BTW, thanks for the personal attack against me on another post. Now after reading your first grade comments on the art of negotiating, I understand. I really do man. Flame away
apuszczalowski Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 The way I read that piece Johnson's asking price has always been in the neighborhood of $7.5M yet the sides were $2M apart. That type of negotiating should concern you. If not for Johnson then for those who come next. (I know that it is insane money compared to anything real people earn, but this isn't real people we're talking about.) Johnson might forget about the Bills lowball offer. The next guy(s) might tell Overdorf to go pound sand. All this is assuming that the reports are accurate. These are early negotiations though, you never make your best offer this early. What should be a good sign to fans is that the Bills have been coming to him to start negotiations before teh season and during, and its Stevie thats saying "Lets wait til the offseason". Some players just want a deal and will take whatever is offered if its fair, some have an amount they feel they are worth and will hold out longer for that amount. My point is, the season isn't even over yet, he has told the Bills on atleast 2 seperate occasions to wait til the offseason, and the offseason is still 2 1/2 months long til anyone else can negotiate with him. Its not even close to crunch time yet. Do you think the Bills are the only team that makes lower counter offers to players? Probably, your simplistic logic is just one of the many reasons you're not a NFL GM. BTW, thanks for the personal attack against me on another post. Now after reading your first grade comments on the art of negotiating, I understand. I really do man. Flame away Good, I was afraid using a first grade level that it may have been too advanced...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 I personally think that Stevie is worth more in the $5-6 mil range like the Bills do because I believe he is more of a #2 WR then a #1, and that his numbers are inflated by being the best WR of a no name WR core, What about last year, when he had even better numbers and wasn't the best WR in the unit?
apuszczalowski Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 What about last year, when he had even better numbers and wasn't the best WR in the unit? Who was the better WR? Evans? he has shown that he is much better then what the Bills currently have besides Johnson
KRT88 Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) 7.5 million per makes no sense in the NFL! why do teams pay WR but they are ever so reluctant to pay RB's? Fred Jackson can't get 5m per on a short extention and he touches the ball 20-25 times a game but a guy who touches it 6/7 wants and will likely get 7+m per year! Why do WR get paid better than really good RB? Someone explain this to me please! Edited December 29, 2011 by KRT88
Zulu Cthulhu Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 Who was the better WR? Evans? he has shown that he is much better then what the Bills currently have besides Johnson Well Evans was the nominal #1, yeah. So you think SJ is a #2 receiver and $7-8 million over 4 or 5 years is too much? But he is still better than Lee. Does that mean Evans was drastically overpaid by Buffalo? A guy who is going to average 80 catches and 8 TDs over the past two seasons isn't a number 1? Just asking these questions to try to help you out. You seem to be herping and derping over your own argument.
PromoTheRobot Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 Whatever the Bills do is the wrong thing. They let Whitner walk? Mistake. They extend Lee Evans? Overpaid. Sign Fitz? Too early and he sucks. I'm sure the Bills will be wrong for signing/not signing Johnson as well. PTR
snamsnoops Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 What about last year, when he had even better numbers and wasn't the best WR in the unit? So you think Evans was better than S.J.? I disagree. Evans did absolutely nothing last year. Didn't or couldn't run half the routes S.J. did. Before injuries S.J. numbers were better as well, just my 4.5 cents worth!
vincec Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 Whatever the Bills do is the wrong thing. They let Whitner walk? Mistake. They extend Lee Evans? Overpaid. Sign Fitz? Too early and he sucks. I'm sure the Bills will be wrong for signing/not signing Johnson as well. PTR On the other hand, per all PTR posts any criticism of the Bills in unfounded and illustrative of an irrational fan/media base.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 I don't think there's any question that Lee Evans underperformed his contract. I doubt anyone would contest that.
Zulu Cthulhu Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 So you think Evans was better than S.J.? I disagree. Evans did absolutely nothing last year. Didn't or couldn't run half the routes S.J. did. Before injuries S.J. numbers were better as well, just my 4.5 cents worth! SJ turned out to be better than Evans, yeah. Going into the year Lee was the Bills #1 WR. Stevie blew Evans' numbers out of the water. He's having a comparable year this year, without Lee's speed on the opposite side (Really without anything on the opposite side, besides Nelson for spurts.) But some claim he's not worth what he (reportedly) asked. I contend that's stupid. $5-6 million a year, which is what some think he's worth, is Mike Thomas money. Stevie is better than Mike Thomas. It's not even close.
nbash Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 I am inclined to think Stevie doesn't get big money offers as a free agent. Has he really distinguished himself as a dominant #1 WR? A good one, yes, but think back to Eric Moulds in his prime. I'm all for the Bills paying their guys, I really am, but in this case they may benefit from letting this one test the market.
Gray Beard Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 If it's a no-brainer, one has to wonder why the Bills didn't accept the offer that was proposed by Stevie's agents… or at least counter offer which they also didn't do. If you believe the story, there's a big gap between Stevie and the Bills. And it sounds like the Bills think his value is closer to $5-6 million per year. This article does nothing to lessen my concern about losing Stevie. Oh man. You make some good points. I went from thinking that this was a no-brainer to being seriously concerned that this will drag on until some other team makes a better offer. If they play hardball and refuse to go over $6M, Stevie will be gone and then they will be looking for two starting caliber receivers instead of just one as they are now. This reminds me of one of those boot camp or prison movies. Dig a hole, fill it in, dig it again. Like Cool Hand Luke. Or maybe it's just Sgt. Carter and Gomer Pyle.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 Has he really distinguished himself as a dominant #1 WR? That's a moot point. It's not semantics at this juncture. The discussion is how much he should get paid. He's apparently asking $7.5 million which is not "dominant #1 WR" money. The Bills are apparently offering $5.5 million. The discussion is what the number should be… which number is fairer considering his productivity, etc.
NoSaint Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 So instead of signing after Fitz, he wanted to risk possible injury and wait until after the season? Translation - let's see what a contender might offer me...... Let's not forget how hot we were then. Waiting might have gotten him much more money if we finished with say 10 wins and he was a probowler.
nbash Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 That's a moot point. It's not semantics at this juncture. The discussion is how much he should get paid. He's apparently asking $7.5 million which is not "dominant #1 WR" money. The Bills are apparently offering $5.5 million. The discussion is what the number should be… which number is fairer considering his productivity, etc. I see your point -- this is how we end up replacing quality starters with bargain priced third round picks. He and Fitz click, keep them together and toss Stevie some Dough
nucci Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) Who cares how much he gets paid? He just needs to be on this team. We have little depth at WR and right now he's our best. Edited December 29, 2011 by nucci
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 I see your point -- this is how we end up replacing quality starters with bargain priced third round picks. He and Fitz click, keep them together and toss Stevie some Dough Who cares how much he gets paid? He just needs to be on this team. We have little depth at WR and right now he's our best. Well I'm in that group that thinks $7.5 million per is a bargain price. I'll be quite pissed off if we lose the only legit starting NFL WR on this team by undervaluing him.
bills1960 Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 From day one Nix stressed the importance of good drafting and making sure that you retain those who have proven to be a starter on this team. Not resigning him goes against his most basic ideology as a GM. If you're not going to be active in Free Agency, then you have to make this deal. 7.5 million is a total bargain for a guy with Johnson's abilities. Not to mention he's a team leader and, unlike many other former Bills, actually enjoys living in the city of Buffalo.
jjmac Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 Joe buscaglia and sal Cappaccio reporting. No link from my mobile. Check twitter @salsports That's quite a bit less than the $9M I've been hearing. If it's true, I can't understand why it isn't done yet.
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