Fan in San Diego Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 We need a stud DE or DT with this years 1st round pick. If we had any pass rush whatsoever we wouldn't need CB's to cover for 1 minute in the back field.
RyanC883 Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 Here's two trends that I hope Boss Hogg will stop. Since 2000 the Bills have taken: 3 RB's No#1--McGahee, Lynch and Spiller plus they took Travis Henry @ 2 and also had taken Antowain Smith #1 in "97".. 4 DB's No#1--Winfield, Clements, Whitner and McKelvin, plus they developed Greer and last year took Williams @ #2... Between them that is 7 #1 picks on RB's & DB's out of 12 (2000-2011) close to 60%. It's no wonder the Bills haven't been able to develop good Offensive or Defensive lines or have improve other positions. The Bills are always replacing talent, and not accumulating it, as the Bills FO has shown they do not resign 1st round RB's & CB's, because they are too expensive to resign. Yep. But don't worry, the Bills will start wasting picks on WR's now after they let Johnson walk. They are TOO CHEAP to spend to the Cap, will say Johnson wanted too much, and that they really like "insert name here." They don't seem to realize that the so-called "lack of depth" on this team is really a symptom of the underlying disease known as chronic cheapness. We need a stud DE or DT with this years 1st round pick. If we had any pass rush whatsoever we wouldn't need CB's to cover for 1 minute in the back field. Very true. I'd go stud DE/OLB in 1st two rounds, in order of availability. (unless by some miracle RG3 or Luck is there). Then draft QB in 3, and best WR in 4 (because teams should have multiple good WR's). If still under cap, sign FA DE/OLB and/or WR.
Jerry Jabber Posted December 28, 2011 Author Posted December 28, 2011 Yep. But don't worry, the Bills will start wasting picks on WR's now after they let Johnson walk. They are TOO CHEAP to spend to the Cap, will say Johnson wanted too much, and that they really like "insert name here." They don't seem to realize that the so-called "lack of depth" on this team is really a symptom of the underlying disease known as chronic cheapness. Very true. I'd go stud DE/OLB in 1st two rounds, in order of availability. (unless by some miracle RG3 or Luck is there). Then draft QB in 3, and best WR in 4 (because teams should have multiple good WR's). If still under cap, sign FA DE/OLB and/or WR. I have a feeling that the Bills are going to do that with Johnson and waste a top pick on a WR. I agree that the first two picks should be a stud DE/OLB. Afterwards, I hope they draft a TE & a WR.
aristocrat Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 That's not what happened. The choice was between re-signing Greer an re-signing McGee, and the Bills picked McGee. They had already invested heavily at corner with McKelvin, so they (sensibly) felt they couldn't pay big money to 3 corners. The problem was that they chose wrong. A healthy McGee is better than a healthy Greer, but McGee has always been banged up. its the classic bills situation...let go of one player who is strong at a position and try to replace through the draft. The bills have a hard time foreseeing the future of the team as far as re-siging players. Jason peters was already unhappy with his contract and ended up sitting out to start the season and we traded him the following year. Now, the bills knew he was unhappy and perhaps could have signed greer to a 4 year 23 mil deal which is what new orleans gave him(leodis got roughly the same deal as a first round pick) and taken a player at a different position like tackle to replace peters or a right tackle. Its all shoulda coulda woulda but these are how problems snowball and make your team consistently worse.
bizell Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) in this same time period, San Diego has taken 6 RBs/DBs with their #1s. Edited December 28, 2011 by bizell
Ramius Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 Regarding the DBs, take a look back at the past 10 years, and you'll find the Bills right around the league average for number of high picks invested in the secondary. The biggest problem has been the overall lack of investment in OL picks in the top 3 rounds of drafts. There's lots of good OLs to be had in rounds 2 and 3.
Bill from NYC Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 Regarding the DBs, take a look back at the past 10 years, and you'll find the Bills right around the league average for number of high picks invested in the secondary. The biggest problem has been the overall lack of investment in OL picks in the top 3 rounds of drafts. There's lots of good OLs to be had in rounds 2 and 3. And somehow, this team was left with not 1 credible OLB on their roster, and perhaps only 1 credible ILB. This would seem impossible. And once again, it's great to draft dbs and rbs after a team has a foundation in place. If you try to build a team from those positions you might miss the playoffs for 12 years. It could happen.
Webster Guy Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 Taking the Best Player Available is BS in my opinion. It's applying an exact method to something completely subjective. So following BPA logic, should Carolina and Green Bay draft a QB if he's the next best player on their board and a stud offensive lineman is 2nd when it comes time for them to pick? yeah right. You consider team needs first then look to the board. And how do you rank a LT vs a WR and look me in the eye and tell me with any confidence that you know one is better than the other.
Ramius Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 And somehow, this team was left with not 1 credible OLB on their roster, and perhaps only 1 credible ILB. This would seem impossible. And once again, it's great to draft dbs and rbs after a team has a foundation in place. If you try to build a team from those positions you might miss the playoffs for 12 years. It could happen. There's no excuse for their asinine RB merry-go-round. The biggest mistakes have been drafting poor players in general, and pissing away high picks to draft to draft losers like McCargo and Poz. With the most recent round 1 DBs, here were the crucial mistakes: It wasn't so much drafting Donte as much as it was NOT drafting Ngata. Any idiot off the street would have drafted Ngata. The Bills stupidly didn't. I don't care who they took at #8, the fact that it wasn't Ngata (or Cutler) was the problem. With Mckelvin, if the cheap-ass front office had simply kept greer, there'd have been no need to pick McKelvin. They created their own hole and paid for it.
Bill from NYC Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 There's no excuse for their asinine RB merry-go-round. The biggest mistakes have been drafting poor players in general, and pissing away high picks to draft to draft losers like McCargo and Poz. With the most recent round 1 DBs, here were the crucial mistakes: It wasn't so much drafting Donte as much as it was NOT drafting Ngata. Any idiot off the street would have drafted Ngata. The Bills stupidly didn't. I don't care who they took at #8, the fact that it wasn't Ngata (or Cutler) was the problem. With Mckelvin, if the cheap-ass front office had simply kept greer, there'd have been no need to pick McKelvin. They created their own hole and paid for it. You bring up some good points, and mention the 2006 draft. As I have said before, this was the worst fiasco I have ever seen. This draft was an extremely good one, and we had an extra, early pick in round 3. The draft was SO deep at OT that Trueblood slipped to #27 in round 2, and Eric Winston lasted until the 2nd pick of round 3. Whitworth went late in the second round as well. http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/years/2006 Marv had offers to trade down. He said that one contained a second and a fourth. The world was his. He might have been able to trade down and draft Ngata. He then could have filled both OT slots and had premium picks to spare. Instead, with 4 picks in the first 3 rounds, we came away with Whitner, McCargo and Youboty. This on a team with huge problems on both lines and a young quarterback. It's tough to recover from this. Other teams took these players and are reaping the rewards. But ultimately you are correct. The Bills are notorious for creating holes and then chasing after players in the draft to fill the void. I sure hope they sign SJ and break this pattern.
8-8 Forever? Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 I completely understand about taking the BPA. Plus, McGee & McKelvin need to be replaced. IMO, if Nix can find a good replacement in the draft, like Aaron Williams in the 2nd round for example, then I'm fine with that. IMO, I just think drafting a RB or CB in the first round is a waste, given the Bills history of not resigning their 1st round RB's & CB's. IMO, your 1st round pick is suppose to be an impact player, that is on the team longer than their rookie contract. you draft BPA. This isn't fantasy football. The Bills problem is Free Agency. They let guys get away in FA and don't really sign anyone at skill positions. Every FA signing has to be some kind of bargain. Plus FAs don't want the Bills in the first place, if other offers are available. So the draft becomes critical. The Bills need lots and lots of draft picks because drafted players are stuck with the Bills for 4 or 5 years. They cannot get away. They are trapped. I believe they will sign Eric Wood next year as soon as he proves he is OK after the injury. And Levitre. So the O Line is largely set, other than LT, and it looks like Hairston and Bell have that covered. Injuries and the turnovers that come after your team is weakened by injury are what kill most NFL teams' seasons, and that is what did the Bills in this season. Go draft the best player available and try and stay healthy ... all you can do.
Trader Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 You bring up some good points, and mention the 2006 draft. As I have said before, this was the worst fiasco I have ever seen. This draft was an extremely good one, and we had an extra, early pick in round 3. The draft was SO deep at OT that Trueblood slipped to #27 in round 2, and Eric Winston lasted until the 2nd pick of round 3. Whitworth went late in the second round as well. http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/years/2006 Marv had offers to trade down. He said that one contained a second and a fourth. The world was his. He might have been able to trade down and draft Ngata. He then could have filled both OT slots and had premium picks to spare. Instead, with 4 picks in the first 3 rounds, we came away with Whitner, McCargo and Youboty. This on a team with huge problems on both lines and a young quarterback. It's tough to recover from this. Other teams took these players and are reaping the rewards. But ultimately you are correct. The Bills are notorious for creating holes and then chasing after players in the draft to fill the void. I sure hope they sign SJ and break this pattern. Excellent post. The draft is the most important way to acquire talent but it should not be the only way. And yes you need to draft BPA (that fits your system) For further explanation read Gil Brandt's draft philosophy. Trade out of the spot is often necessary. I think the Bills GM's have been afraid to do this. Doing anything else puts you in the position of drafting Torelle Troup instead of Dan Grankowski and we all know how that worked out.
Jerry Jabber Posted December 29, 2011 Author Posted December 29, 2011 you draft BPA. This isn't fantasy football. The Bills problem is Free Agency. They let guys get away in FA and don't really sign anyone at skill positions. Every FA signing has to be some kind of bargain. Plus FAs don't want the Bills in the first place, if other offers are available. So the draft becomes critical. The Bills need lots and lots of draft picks because drafted players are stuck with the Bills for 4 or 5 years. They cannot get away. They are trapped. I believe they will sign Eric Wood next year as soon as he proves he is OK after the injury. And Levitre. So the O Line is largely set, other than LT, and it looks like Hairston and Bell have that covered. Injuries and the turnovers that come after your team is weakened by injury are what kill most NFL teams' seasons, and that is what did the Bills in this season. Go draft the best player available and try and stay healthy ... all you can do. If you're strong at RB & have depth at that position, you don't draft a RB just because the RB is the BPA available. The Pats have traded down for years and have received multiple draft picks in the process. That's what the Bills need to do if the player they want is further down the line, plus they will gain more draft picks in the process. Once the Bills become a successful organization again, FA's will want to come here again (just like in the 90's.)
jjmac Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 You take the best player available. If a guy who is a lock to be as good as Revis is there in R1, at pick 10, I sure as hell hope the Bills are taking him. I hate the merry-go-round of letting draft picks go and drafting their replacements, but fact is that right now that is actually an area of need given McGee's injury history, McKelvin's lack of ball-skills, and other uncertainties. It's about the player, and a blanket statement about position is kind of foolish. That said, a RB pick would be a luxury the Bills cannot afford. That one I see differently, since they addressed it less than two years ago and still have a strong RB in Jackson in the fold. If OJ or Barry Sanders reincarnate is there at the Bills' spot, then obviously that guy is so good that the pick is worth trading up for, in another team's eyes... Edit: PS: the offensive line isn't bad as much as it is injury-ravaged. The defensive line is another matter and we have spent three R1-3 picks on it in the first two years of the Nix era. So far 1/3 with Carrington looking like he has some promise, Dareus a lock, and Troup an unknown due to injury. BPA doesn't always work. What if the BPA at our #1 pick is a RB? That's why I think it should be BPA who fills a need.
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 BPA doesn't always work. What if the BPA at our #1 pick is a RB? That's why I think it should be BPA who fills a need. I thought I sort of accounted for that in saying that if the clear BPA is a RB, that someone will surely want to trade up to that spot. That said, I think the strategy of "three players" you'd be comfortable with at any slot is a good one. And if the first guy is far and away a cut above, a once-in-a-generation talent, so clearly better than any average player at his position, I think you need to take him no matter what position he plays. I think those are pretty narrow definitions, though, and I don't think, for example, that Lynch or Spiller qualify.
John from Riverside Posted December 29, 2011 Posted December 29, 2011 We did resign MgGee...... I also think we have been darn unlucky with injuries when it comes to players.... Marlon Kerner Kenny Irvinm Daemian Covington (LB) was also shaping up to be a monster We gotta figure out how to stop being so injury prone
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