Jerry Jabber Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 Here's two trends that I hope Boss Hogg will stop. Since 2000 the Bills have taken: 3 RB's No#1--McGahee, Lynch and Spiller plus they took Travis Henry @ 2 and also had taken Antowain Smith #1 in "97".. 4 DB's No#1--Winfield, Clements, Whitner and McKelvin, plus they developed Greer and last year took Williams @ #2... Between them that is 7 #1 picks on RB's & DB's out of 12 (2000-2011) close to 60%. It's no wonder the Bills haven't been able to develop good Offensive or Defensive lines or have improve other positions. The Bills are always replacing talent, and not accumulating it, as the Bills FO has shown they do not resign 1st round RB's & CB's, because they are too expensive to resign.
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 You take the best player available. If a guy who is a lock to be as good as Revis is there in R1, at pick 10, I sure as hell hope the Bills are taking him. I hate the merry-go-round of letting draft picks go and drafting their replacements, but fact is that right now that is actually an area of need given McGee's injury history, McKelvin's lack of ball-skills, and other uncertainties. It's about the player, and a blanket statement about position is kind of foolish. That said, a RB pick would be a luxury the Bills cannot afford. That one I see differently, since they addressed it less than two years ago and still have a strong RB in Jackson in the fold. If OJ or Barry Sanders reincarnate is there at the Bills' spot, then obviously that guy is so good that the pick is worth trading up for, in another team's eyes... Edit: PS: the offensive line isn't bad as much as it is injury-ravaged. The defensive line is another matter and we have spent three R1-3 picks on it in the first two years of the Nix era. So far 1/3 with Carrington looking like he has some promise, Dareus a lock, and Troup an unknown due to injury.
DanInUticaTampa Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) that is wierd. I thought they stopped that last year. at least for now. also, they do resign CBs and RBs. Mcgee and Jackson have both signed extenstions in the past few years. Not saying mcgee was a worthwhile signing, but we did resign him to a big payday. This frontoffice has shown that they are willing to resign players they like. However, they seem to overpay on almost all of them. but this front office seems better at resigning than the previous ones. and that is really one of the only nice things I have to say about them right now. that is even with freddy and stevie still waiting to be extended. Edited December 27, 2011 by DanInUticaTampa
Jerry Jabber Posted December 27, 2011 Author Posted December 27, 2011 You take the best player available. If a guy who is a lock to be as good as Revis is there in R1, at pick 10, I sure as hell hope the Bills are taking him. I hate the merry-go-round of letting draft picks go and drafting their replacements, but fact is that right now that is actually an area of need given McGee's injury history, McKelvin's lack of ball-skills, and other uncertainties. It's about the player, and a blanket statement about position is kind of foolish. That said, a RB pick would be a luxury the Bills cannot afford. That one I see differently, since they addressed it less than two years ago and still have a strong RB in Jackson in the fold. If OJ or Barry Sanders reincarnate is there at the Bills' spot, then obviously that guy is so good that the pick is worth trading up for, in another team's eyes... Edit: PS: the offensive line isn't bad as much as it is injury-ravaged. The defensive line is another matter and we have spent three R1-3 picks on it in the first two years of the Nix era. So far 1/3 with Carrington looking like he has some promise, Dareus a lock, and Troup an unknown due to injury. I completely understand about taking the BPA. Plus, McGee & McKelvin need to be replaced. IMO, if Nix can find a good replacement in the draft, like Aaron Williams in the 2nd round for example, then I'm fine with that. IMO, I just think drafting a RB or CB in the first round is a waste, given the Bills history of not resigning their 1st round RB's & CB's. IMO, your 1st round pick is suppose to be an impact player, that is on the team longer than their rookie contract.
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 I completely understand about taking the BPA. Plus, McGee & McKelvin need to be replaced. IMO, if Nix can find a good replacement in the draft, like Aaron Williams in the 2nd round for example, then I'm fine with that. IMO, I just think drafting a RB or CB in the first round is a waste, given the Bills history of not resigning their 1st round RB's & CB's. IMO, your 1st round pick is suppose to be an impact player, that is on the team longer than their rookie contract. I agree with this 100%. And if the Bills had paid a bit more to keep their own with Greer, for example, they could have had Florence as #4CB and had a nice insurance policy for McGee's next inevitable injury. McGee and Bell will be big determining factors in this next offseason, IMO. The front office has some major decisions to make as to whether they can deal with the fact that these two are injury-prone but also among the best the Bills have when they actually play. That their best options are also the most frequently injured is really one of the factors that has always held the Bills back.
Jerry Jabber Posted December 27, 2011 Author Posted December 27, 2011 I agree with this 100%. And if the Bills had paid a bit more to keep their own with Greer, for example, they could have had Florence as #4CB and had a nice insurance policy for McGee's next inevitable injury. McGee and Bell will be big determining factors in this next offseason, IMO. The front office has some major decisions to make as to whether they can deal with the fact that these two are injury-prone but also among the best the Bills have when they actually play. That their best options are also the most frequently injured is really one of the factors that has always held the Bills back. I agree 100% Not resigning Greer was a major blunder by the Bills. If I remember correctly, Greer came into the league as an UDFA, so resigning him wouldn't have cost an arm & a leg, like resigning someone like Nate Clements or Darelle Revis (former 1st round picks).
mrags Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 I wouldn't say the problem is yay we sign so many. The problem is we don't retain them when thier contracts are up. Honestly with the RBs they were in situations where they were handcuffed. McGahee was a luxery pick and a shot that he might turn into an alltime great. There were so many saying that if he came back from injury he could be an allpro. Henry was a casualty of that hope. He was also ran himself out of town. We didn't have much choice considering his actions at the time. Lynch was picked up because of the action of Willis and was traded for very similar reasons. At the time he was 1 infraction away from recieving a year long suspension. Spiller was drafted because of Marshawns actions and because Chan and Nix didn't really know what they had with Freddy. As far as DBs goes, Winfield and Clements were both amazing. Winfield IMO at the time And until recently was one of the best overall corners in the league, and Clements was amazing in coverage. Very similar to how Revis is seen now. Whitner was a need pick and Juron thought he was being cute at the time. I'd say similar things about McKelvin but he was at least seem as one of the best DBs coming out that year. He was projected as a 1st rounder for sure. I don't put any blame on the RBs chosen. None of them (besides McGahee only because of his injury) were drafted much earlier if at all based on where they were projected and NONE of them were dissapointments (exception of Henrys career as a criminal and statutory rapist). We need to resign the guys that are good and show they want to be here and can keep out of trouble. The only guys that we really should have kept that are gone are Clements and Winfield. Both were quality guys that just wanted too much money. After Clements signed that contract he was looked at as a dissapointment only because of the price tag. Right now we have a good groups of young guys at those positions that could prove to be here for a long time. Spiller Williams McKelvin (as long as he's not our #1) Rogers Byrd Searcy we will need another RB and DB if not this year at least in 2 years. Jackson and McGee Are very old and Florence Doesnt show he's much more than our 2nd or slot CB. I'm ok with DBs in the 1st round because they are usually elite talent but RBs shouldn't be taken until round 3 unless a supreme talent falls into your lap.
Coach Tuesday Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 Not that I really disagree, but just to put this in perspective, the New England Patriots have drafted as follows: 2000 Round 3 (second Pats' pick) - J.R. Redmond, RB 2003 Round 2 - Eugene Wilson, DB 2005 Round 3 (second Pats' pick) - Ellis Hobbs, DB 2006 Round 1 - Laurence Maroney, RB 2007 Round 1 - Brandon Merriweather, DB 2008 Round 2 - Terrence Wheatley, DB 2009 Round 1 - Patrick Chung, DB Round 2 - Darius Butler, DB 2010 Round 1 - Devin McCourty, DB 2011 Round 2 - Ras-I-Dowling, DB Round 2 - Shane Vereen, RB Round 3 - Stephen Ridley, RB
Trader Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 You take the best player available. If a guy who is a lock to be as good as Revis is there in R1, at pick 10, I sure as hell hope the Bills are taking him. I hate the merry-go-round of letting draft picks go and drafting their replacements, but fact is that right now that is actually an area of need given McGee's injury history, McKelvin's lack of ball-skills, and other uncertainties. It's about the player, and a blanket statement about position is kind of foolish. That said, a RB pick would be a luxury the Bills cannot afford. That one I see differently, since they addressed it less than two years ago and still have a strong RB in Jackson in the fold. If OJ or Barry Sanders reincarnate is there at the Bills' spot, then obviously that guy is so good that the pick is worth trading up for, in another team's eyes... Edit: PS: the offensive line isn't bad as much as it is injury-ravaged. The defensive line is another matter and we have spent three R1-3 picks on it in the first two years of the Nix era. So far 1/3 with Carrington looking like he has some promise, Dareus a lock, and Troup an unknown due to injury. If Running back is the BPA when you draft you trade out of it or pickt the BPA . And I really do not want to hear that you need a partner. New England does it with regularity. You have to try. I believe that the bills try but not hard enough and when they do they are not very good at it (see the Lynch and Evans trades).
Bill from NYC Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) that is wierd. I thought they stopped that last year. at least for now. also, they do resign CBs and RBs. Mcgee and Jackson have both signed extenstions in the past few years. Not saying mcgee was a worthwhile signing, but we did resign him to a big payday. This frontoffice has shown that they are willing to resign players they like. However, they seem to overpay on almost all of them. but this front office seems better at resigning than the previous ones. and that is really one of the only nice things I have to say about them right now. that is even with freddy and stevie still waiting to be extended. Sorry Dan, I respectfully disagree. Nix/Gailey rushed to the podium to draft Spiller at #9. In 2011, they took A. Williams with the 2nd pick in round 2, and Nix openly stated that he had "numerous trade down offers in every round." We will never know, but he might have been able to draft Williams AND acquire a first round pick in 2012. The 2nd pick of round 2 comes with a price. At some point, a team has to build a foundation. And I don't know of a great or even very good team that was built upon running backs and dbs. At this point, we have little to no pass rush. But Mr. Wilson is already talking about receivers. If we let SJ walk and draft a 1st round receiver, nothing will change in all probability. Why would it? But, a flashy wr will sell tickets. And if after 2 years he has a very good game, people will call him the "bpa" and a "good pick." Mr. Wilson is a genius. Edited December 27, 2011 by Bill from NYC
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 I totally disagree and totally agree. 1) RB's: agree. They are a dime a dozen. I'd rather not waste a 7th round pick on one let alone a 1st round pick. 2) CB's: disagree. The best corners in the league are high picks. There's not a lot of bust potential for CB's (McKelvin is one of the few exceptions, go figure). And since CB's are so expensive on the FA market, you're better off just drafting replacements and letting guys walk once their rookie contracts expire.
Best Player Available Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 I agree 100% Not resigning Greer was a major blunder by the Bills. If I remember correctly, Greer came into the league as an UDFA, so resigning him wouldn't have cost an arm & a leg, like resigning someone like Nate Clements or Darelle Revis (former 1st round picks). Greer is the classic Bills move. An UDFA, brought in and groomed by the Bills. Then when it looks like the kid will be more than adequate, and would demand a larger contract, they let him walk. I don't think they even offered him a contract. Now he has a super bowl ring, and from what i saw yet again last night is pretty darn good. Good for him, I always liked him. bad for the Bills. I'm sure Greer feels great about how it ended up.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 I agree 100% Not resigning Greer was a major blunder by the Bills. If I remember correctly, Greer came into the league as an UDFA, so resigning him wouldn't have cost an arm & a leg, like resigning someone like Nate Clements or Darelle Revis (former 1st round picks). That's not what happened. The choice was between re-signing Greer an re-signing McGee, and the Bills picked McGee. They had already invested heavily at corner with McKelvin, so they (sensibly) felt they couldn't pay big money to 3 corners. The problem was that they chose wrong. A healthy McGee is better than a healthy Greer, but McGee has always been banged up.
SactoBillFan Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 Take the best player on the board. Not an original idea, but a good one.
Gray Beard Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 Take the best player on the board. Not an original idea, but a good one. Even if it is Trent Richardson?
SactoBillFan Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 Even if it is Trent Richardson? Tough call I know with 2 very descent RBs. But he has trade value, and if he is the best on the board I say you take him.
buffaloaggie Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 I totally disagree and totally agree. 1) RB's: agree. They are a dime a dozen. I'd rather not waste a 7th round pick on one let alone a 1st round pick. 2) CB's: disagree. The best corners in the league are high picks. There's not a lot of bust potential for CB's (McKelvin is one of the few exceptions, go figure). And since CB's are so expensive on the FA market, you're better off just drafting replacements and letting guys walk once their rookie contracts expire. This is right on the money with both points. FA CBs have been one of the most expensive positions as of late. Greer got about $22mil over 4 years. Asomugha, Clements, Winfield, Revis have all received huge contracts. Do you pay for a bunch of expensive corners, when your defensive line can't get pressure? I think I'd rather have the better pass rushers, and that will in turn make your secondary look better because the QB will not have as much time to get rid of the ball. Let a CB walk, get your DL in order and build from there. Still, this year, the Bills need to address a pass rushing LB (that also has decent size). I hope I hear when the Bills first pick is announced, "Courtney Upshaw, Linebacker, University of Alabama."
Gray Beard Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 Take the best player on the board. Not an original idea, but a good one. I feel that ranking the top three choices and determining which best fits your need is a good compromise between BPA and reaching for need. If you reach beyond the top three, then you run the risk of picking a Whitner (good but not great, inflated sense of self worth due to being picked too high).
SactoBillFan Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 I feel that ranking the top three choices and determining which best fits your need is a good compromise between BPA and reaching for need. If you reach beyond the top three, then you run the risk of picking a Whitner (good but not great, inflated sense of self worth due to being picked too high). I just hope there is an excellent pass rusher available (and within the margin of the best available) at the spot where the Bills pick.
Jerry Jabber Posted December 28, 2011 Author Posted December 28, 2011 IMO, in order to build a good football team, you start by building both offensive & defensive lines. If your QB doesn't have time to throw, then it's going to be very hard for the offense to move the ball & score. If your defense can't stop the run & can't put pressure on the QB, then the defense will give up a lot of yards & points, plus be on the field a long time, giving less time on the field to the offense.
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