A Baltimore Perspective On Lee Evans !!

[section122]

Freak accidents aren't freak in the NFL -- they can happen on any play. That said, i can sort of see your point about Wood. As for Peters, give it up. I see a lot of Eagles games, and he's really good -- dominating, in fact. Bills fans need to accept that fact, finally.

I wonder how much this has to do with the fact that he no longer protects the QBs blind side. His last year with the Bills he was credited with allowing 11.5 sacks. His first year in Philly (with McNabb as QB) he was credited with 6 sacks. His last 2 years (Vick as QB) he has given up 2.5 and 2 a year. So I see a couple of things, 1 is a guy who dogged it and was not effective while here, 2 a guy who is getting paid a boatload of money to be essentially a rt (does not protect the blindside), and 3 a guy who is protecting the MOST mobile QB in probably NFL history. Peters would not be elite if he were here because he didn't care to unless they showed him the money. The same can be said for McGahee except he was a goner no matter what the Bills wanted.

 

Link for stats: http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=7122&team=21

 

I'm not defending Evans, but the Browns' pass defense ain't nothing to laugh at.

 

#2 in yards allowed, #6 in completion percentage (56.4), #10 in passer rating allowed (81.4), #1 in completions allowed (242, tied for 4th in least amount of TDs allowed (16)

Isn't Dickie J their D-Coordinator?!?!?!

 

Part of the reason those rankings are so high may be because their rush defense is ranked #30. Kind of like when he was here and we had the 3rd ranked pass D because no one had to pass on us. Joe Haden is an excellent cb Sheldon Brown is decent but who else do they have? The 2 headed monster safety combo of Usama Young and Mike Adams! (yes I did have to look those names up lol)

 

I'm not attacking you but lets not talk to highly of this D. Middle of the pack sure but steel curtain they are not.

Edited December 28, 2011 by section122

[Dawgg]

Wait, so the Bills knew they had no chance at the SB, or even playoffs, and shouldn't have done what they did with Clements, but the Pats knew they were SB bound and thus losing Samuel for nothing was a good move? Yeah, okay.

The Bills from top to bottom were fairly clear that they were rebuilding. They had just come off a terrible season, fired their GM and were looking to contend in the coming years, not the coming months. If you honestly think that the Bills and Patriots had similar outlooks going into that season (which it appears you do), the joke's on you, Doc.

 

Not to mention the Pats lost that SB. Was it still a good move on their part losing Samuel for nothing?

Yes. They went 16-0. I suppose by your logic since the Bills lost 4 Super Bowls in a row, all personnel decisions geared toward a Super Bowl run (Bryce Paup, Steve Christie) were bad moves. Again, joke's on you Doc.

 

Let's say Marv doesn't promise Clements to not franchise him, he sits out 8 games, probably has a poor season, and then destroys whatever trade value he may have had. Where would that have gotten the Bills?

When you're guaranteed top-5 money coming off a rookie contract, you simply don't sit out for 8 games. There's just no way Nate would sit out and forgo the big money that a 1-year $10M contract will offer. It rarely, if ever happens and it wouldn't have happened in the case of Nate. His agent, Todd France, has never had a client hold out for more than a few days. Again, you're trying awfully hard to justify a boneheaded move by an overmatched front office. Joke's on you, Doc

[dave mcbride]

I wonder how much this has to do with the fact that he no longer protects the QBs blind side. His last year with the Bills he was credited with allowing 11.5 sacks. His first year in Philly (with McNabb as QB) he was credited with 6 sacks. His last 2 years (Vick as QB) he has given up 2.5 and 2 a year. So I see a couple of things, 1 is a guy who dogged it and was not effective while here, 2 a guy who is getting paid a boatload of money to be essentially a rt (does not protect the blindside), and 3 a guy who is protecting the MOST mobile QB in probably NFL history. Peters would not be elite if he were here because he didn't care to unless they showed him the money. The same can be said for McGahee except he was a goner no matter what the Bills wanted.

 

Link for stats: http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=7122&team=21

 

 

 

Yet Vick is one of the most likely to be sacked QBs in NFL history, with a ridiculously high 8.8 percent sack percentage rate ( http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/V/VickMi00.htm ). For a comparison, Bledsoe's lifetime sack pct rate was 6.5 percent. The worst of all time is none other than Rob Johnson, whose rate is one that I don't anyone will ever come close to breaking: 14.8% ! ( http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnRo00.htm ).

 

Note that Vick's sack rate has improved this year. The other thing about Peters that goes unmentioned here is that he's a completely overwhelming and dominating run blocker. They were first in rushing yards per attempt last year and they're third this year. They were 14th his first season there (2009).

Edited December 28, 2011 by dave mcbride

[section122]

Yet Vick is one of the most likely to be sacked QBs in NFL history, with a ridiculously high 8.8 percent sack percentage rate ( http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/V/VickMi00.htm ). For a comparison, Bledsoe's lifetime sack pct rate was 6.5 percent. The worst of all time is none other than Rob Johnson, whose rate is one that I don't anyone will ever come close to breaking: 14.8% ! ( http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnRo00.htm ).

 

Note that Vick's sack rate has improved this year. The other thing about Peters that goes unmentioned here is that he's a completely overwhelming and dominating run blocker. They were first in rushing yards per attempt last year and they're third this year. They were 14th his first season there (2009).

 

wow Rob Johnson was more of a statue than Bledsoe!!! I guess he was a record breaking qb after all!

 

Peters has imo always been an excellent run blocker. The stats though are skewed by Vick as he breaks containment and bust long runs (6.8 ypc in 2010 and 7.8 this year) and McNabb in Peter's first year was not a scrambler.

 

Also I don't know if anyone gets credit for the sacks he takes when he is dancing around in the backfield so I don't think it skews the numbers to significantly.

 

Either way Peters would not be playing that way here and admitted to dogging it after he left. So although he is def a good player he would not be that same player in a Bill's uni. Let alone the fact that he is basically playing the rt position for them and not the ultra valuable lt blind side protector.

Edited December 28, 2011 by section122

[dave mcbride]

wow Rob Johnson was more of a statue than Bledsoe!!! I guess he was a record breaking qb after all!

 

Peters has imo always been an excellent run blocker. The stats though are skewed by Vick as he breaks containment and bust long runs (6.8 ypc in 2010 and 7.8 this year) and McNabb in Peter's first year was not a scrambler.

 

Also I don't know if anyone gets credit for the sacks he takes when he is dancing around in the backfield so I don't think it skews the numbers to significantly.

 

Either way Peters would not be playing that way here and admitted to dogging it after he left. So although he is def a good player he would not be that same player in a Bill's uni.

I agree with pretty much everything you say above, but if the Bills had tried to keep him by paying him what the market said he was worth, I suspect he would have been a good team player. I'm not saying what he did was right, but good companies will try to retain difficult employees when they know they're top earners. One other thing - even though Vick is a lefty, the top pass rushing DEs are still lining up as RDEs when they face the Eagles. The one big exception I can think of is Peppers, who is a LDE.

Edited December 28, 2011 by dave mcbride

[bizell]

I wonder how much this has to do with the fact that he no longer protects the QBs blind side. His last year with the Bills he was credited with allowing 11.5 sacks. His first year in Philly (with McNabb as QB) he was credited with 6 sacks. His last 2 years (Vick as QB) he has given up 2.5 and 2 a year. So I see a couple of things, 1 is a guy who dogged it and was not effective while here, 2 a guy who is getting paid a boatload of money to be essentially a rt (does not protect the blindside), and 3 a guy who is protecting the MOST mobile QB in probably NFL history. Peters would not be elite if he were here because he didn't care to unless they showed him the money. The same can be said for McGahee except he was a goner no matter what the Bills wanted.

 

Link for stats: http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=7122&team=21

 

 

Isn't Dickie J their D-Coordinator?!?!?!

 

Part of the reason those rankings are so high may be because their rush defense is ranked #30. Kind of like when he was here and we had the 3rd ranked pass D because no one had to pass on us. Joe Haden is an excellent cb Sheldon Brown is decent but who else do they have? The 2 headed monster safety combo of Usama Young and Mike Adams! (yes I did have to look those names up lol)

 

I'm not attacking you but lets not talk to highly of this D. Middle of the pack sure but steel curtain they are not.

That's a pretty good catch, until you look and see that Cleveland is 6th in scoring defense, whereas buffalo was 28th in scoring defense. my friend is a cleveland browns fanatic, so he keeps me in the know about every miniscule detail of their team. Jabaal Sheard, a rookie, is a legit defensive end that has 7 or 8 sacks. Phil Taylor, a huuuge defensive tackle, looks to be as good as Marcel Dareus. Their other defensive tackle named A. Rubin is a beast too. TJ Ward looks to be a pretty good safety in the mold of Patrick Chung. Marcus Benard looks to be a promising pass rusher. They've got talent up there.

Edited December 28, 2011 by bizell

[DrDawkinstein]

LOL, so someone posts evidence that Baltimore is not happy with the trade as they have really received NOTHING in return, and we are told by the Negative Nancies that us "homers" are just too stupid to get it.

 

And then were right back into a Peters argument.

 

Ok...

[Doc]

I'm not defending Evans, but the Browns' pass defense ain't nothing to laugh at.

 

#2 in yards allowed, #6 in completion percentage (56.4), #10 in passer rating allowed (81.4), #1 in completions allowed (242, tied for 4th in least amount of TDs allowed (16)

Fair enough. But he had zero receptions. And the Bengals have a pretty good pass defense as well. As will likely at least one of the teams they face in the playoffs.

I agree with you that the LT position wasn't a huge problem. But I would also suggest that cap numbers are irrelevant with regard to the Bills. He's being paid the going rate.

True. But the cap numbers are very relevant for the Bills. $10M/year spent on a LT (~1/12th of the payroll) is a huge chunk for one player and likely takes money away from another area/other areas.

The Bills from top to bottom were fairly clear that they were rebuilding. They had just come off a terrible season, fired their GM and were looking to contend in the coming years, not the coming months. If you honestly think that the Bills and Patriots had similar outlooks going into that season (which it appears you do), the joke's on you, Doc.

 

 

Yes. They went 16-0. I suppose by your logic since the Bills lost 4 Super Bowls in a row, all personnel decisions geared toward a Super Bowl run (Bryce Paup, Steve Christie) were bad moves. Again, joke's on you Doc.

 

 

When you're guaranteed top-5 money coming off a rookie contract, you simply don't sit out for 8 games. There's just no way Nate would sit out and forgo the big money that a 1-year $10M contract will offer. It rarely, if ever happens and it wouldn't have happened in the case of Nate. His agent, Todd France, has never had a client hold out for more than a few days. Again, you're trying awfully hard to justify a boneheaded move by an overmatched front office. Joke's on you, Doc

The Bills probably didn't expect to be SB bound, but no doubt they were shooting for the playoffs. Just because they were in the first year with a new coach doesn't mean that the playoffs were out of the question. So trying to keep one of their better players would make sense.

 

As for France never having had a client hold out, why demand a "no further franchise tags" agreement? If the Bills didn't agree to it, what would Clements have done? Probably the same thing that Samuel would have done, and why he demanded the same thing.

 

No one was going to trade a pick for Clements. The same goes for Samuel. If you think so, the joke...

[PromoTheRobot]

LOL, so someone posts evidence that Baltimore is not happy with the trade as they have really received NOTHING in return, and we are told by the Negative Nancies that us "homers" are just too stupid to get it.

 

And then were right back into a Peters argument.

 

Ok...

I guess that means the Ravens are too stupid to appreciate the prize they have.

 

PTR

Edited December 28, 2011 by PromoTheRobot

[Dawgg]

No one was going to trade a pick for Clements. The same goes for Samuel. If you think so, the joke...

Wrong you are. The 49ers actually approached the Bills about a trade the year prior and the Bills declined. That was well documented in the SF media upon his signing and a reason why the 49ers were so quick to pounce – they had already done their due diligence the year before.

 

Just like the Bills converted Peerless Price into an asset, just like the Bills converted Jason Peters for an asset, the Bills could (and should) have converted Nate Clements into an asset. They didn't – due to an inept front office that has held this team back for a decade +.

[stinky finger]

The Bills offense was top of the league through the first half of the season with Fitz being a top ranked passer, and Jackson as the league-leading RB. Evans's absence was not noticed while everyone on our OL and WR were healthy.

 

I find it disingenuous (at worst) and inaccurate (at best) that you mention the drafts of FORMER regimes compared to what we might do next draft while no mention of our solid 4th round picks from 2011.

 

Also neglecting the fact that McGahee HIMSELF did not want to be here, did not learn the playbook, and would not work out with the team. Furthermore, McGahee was demoted and sent packing by the Ravens before finding new success with the Broncos. Congrats Willis, it only took 7 years to be the runner we all thought you could be.

 

As far as Peters and his pro-bowls go... Fitz is still in the running to end up in the Pro Bowl this year. Right behind him, Tebow. What does that tell you about the correlation that Pro-bowl = Best at Position? It's a popularity contest, and if you are an OL, once you get on, you keep getting voted back based on name alone (see: Ruben Brown).

 

The only reason behind your premise that both teams lost is due to unforeseen injuries to at least 3 of our WRs. We had replacements for Evans, they just didnt make it through the season. However, given our Offense's production up until the injury bug bit, I'd say the Bills definitely made out on the deal.

terriffic post

[K-9]

I think it's great that Jason Peters is doing well. I hope he makes All Pro every year for rest of his career. He deserves to because he IS that good. And I'm totally fine with him not being in Buffalo. I understand why he held out. I understand why the Bills decided to trade him. Irreconcilable differences. Happens all the time.

 

Why can't people just let it go?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[dave mcbride]

I think it's great that Jason Peters is doing well. I hope he makes All Pro every year for rest of his career. He deserves to because he IS that good. And I'm totally fine with him not being in Buffalo. I understand why he held out. I understand why the Bills decided to trade him. Irreconcilable differences. Happens all the time.

 

Why can't people just let it go?

 

GO BILLS!!!

Good point. Incidentally, check out what Mike Lombardi says about the NFC Pro Bowl roster:

 

http://www.nfl.com/probowl/story/09000d5d825779e7/article/pro-bowl-analysis-nfc-roster-full-of-good-calls-omissions

 

TACKLE

 

*Jason Peters, Eagles; *Joe Staley, Niners; Jermon Bushrod, Saints

 

Peters has been the best all season, and both Staley and Bushrod have played well.

[section122]

I think it's great that Jason Peters is doing well. I hope he makes All Pro every year for rest of his career. He deserves to because he IS that good. And I'm totally fine with him not being in Buffalo. I understand why he held out. I understand why the Bills decided to trade him. Irreconcilable differences. Happens all the time.

 

Why can't people just let it go?

 

GO BILLS!!!

I hear you. I think it has to do with a lack of success for the Bills and success for him. It is like breaking up with a girl and finding out she moved on to date a better looking guy who makes more money than you while you start dating your right hand.

[Doc]

Wrong you are. The 49ers actually approached the Bills about a trade the year prior and the Bills declined. That was well documented in the SF media upon his signing and a reason why the 49ers were so quick to pounce – they had already done their due diligence the year before.

 

Just like the Bills converted Peerless Price into an asset, just like the Bills converted Jason Peters for an asset, the Bills could (and should) have converted Nate Clements into an asset. They didn't – due to an inept front office that has held this team back for a decade +.

What was the offer from the 49'ers the year before? And they didn't due enough due diligence because Clements was an abject failure for them. The only thing that would have made it worse was giving up a pick for him.

[Billsguy]

The Bills still have to make a good selection with the pick. Let's hope they make it a good trade.

 

I always thought getting rid of Evans was a good move, but I thought they could have gotten more in return.

[thewildrabbit]

I get a kick outta this, both Bills fans AND Raven fans are crying that Evans didn't catch a pass last week....so now he is and always will be a complete bust.....NVM that he was only targeted 4 times.

 

Bills fans stating it was a "great trade" because he was worthless as a Bills, NVM the fact that the Bills haven't had any sort of a deep passing game since Steve Fairchild was OC, and JP Losman was the QB.

 

Even then the Bills didn't field a decent enough O line to allow 5-7 drop back pass most of the time, so the QB was almost always under duress. At least Chan is smart enough to know his limitations and doesn't even try and throw deep very often.

 

But then again Gailey is a bit of a tool in other ways, Scott Chandler could have had a great season if this HC utilized him more as a primary target. Its not the fact that he wasn't involved in passing plays, he was. He just wasn't the primary receiver very often. But this is one of Gaileys shortcomings in the fact he rarely utilizes his TE in his passing schemes. Another of his shortcomings is the RB position, as soon as his team gets behind by 7 points he forgets about running the ball and just goes into a pass happy craze.Not to worry tho, this tool will be HC for at least another year.

 

 

Here is a new thought, how about we wait to see what Evans does in his remaining games this year before condemning him to the cross.

[Dawgg]

What was the offer from the 49'ers the year before? And they didn't due enough due diligence because Clements was an abject failure for them. The only thing that would have made it worse was giving up a pick for him.

Agreed, as was Peerless Price for the Falcons. Donahoe franchised him, the Falcons bit and gave the bills a 1st rounder and signed him to a mega-deal. The rest is history. Bottom line is that the Bills failed to capitalize on an opportunity to convert an asset into something tangible. Although I disagree with their decision to trade Peters, at least they got something in return. Same for Peerless Price. At the time (right or wrong) Nate Clements was widely considered the #1 free agent out there.

[Doc]

Agreed, as was Peerless Price for the Falcons. Donahoe franchised him, the Falcons bit and gave the bills a 1st rounder and signed him to a mega-deal. The rest is history. Bottom line is that the Bills failed to capitalize on an opportunity to convert an asset into something tangible. Although I disagree with their decision to trade Peters, at least they got something in return. Same for Peerless Price. At the time (right or wrong) Nate Clements was widely considered the #1 free agent out there.

Maybe after the 2006 season. But he had a down year in 2005, after going to the Pro Bowl in 2004.

[Jerry Jabber]

I get a kick outta this, both Bills fans AND Raven fans are crying that Evans didn't catch a pass last week....so now he is and always will be a complete bust.....NVM that he was only targeted 4 times.

 

Bills fans stating it was a "great trade" because he was worthless as a Bills, NVM the fact that the Bills haven't had any sort of a deep passing game since Steve Fairchild was OC, and JP Losman was the QB.

 

Even then the Bills didn't field a decent enough O line to allow 5-7 drop back pass most of the time, so the QB was almost always under duress. At least Chan is smart enough to know his limitations and doesn't even try and throw deep very often.

 

But then again Gailey is a bit of a tool in other ways, Scott Chandler could have had a great season if this HC utilized him more as a primary target. Its not the fact that he wasn't involved in passing plays, he was. He just wasn't the primary receiver very often. But this is one of Gaileys shortcomings in the fact he rarely utilizes his TE in his passing schemes. Another of his shortcomings is the RB position, as soon as his team gets behind by 7 points he forgets about running the ball and just goes into a pass happy craze.Not to worry tho, this tool will be HC for at least another year.

 

 

Here is a new thought, how about we wait to see what Evans does in his remaining games this year before condemning him to the cross.

 

Put your spin on these stats:

 

http://www.nfl.com/p...2506097/profile

2011 Baltimore Ravens

G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD

8 2 4 74 18.5 32 0

 

In 8 games played, Evans is averaging 0.5 Receptions per game and 9.25 yards per game. Evans was targeted 4 times in the Browns game and had 0 receptions.

 

Stats don't lie!