Dawgg Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 So you are saying we should have beat the 49ers offer of $80 million and kept Clements here? No. He could have garnered compensation, but alas, Marv was the idiot who signed a written agreement promising not to franchise Clements a second time. Had Clements been franchised, he could have been traded. He was widely considered the top free agent available (for whatever reason) and would have easily commanded a first day pick.
Doc Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 No. He could have garnered compensation, but alas, Marv was the idiot who signed a written agreement promising not to franchise Clements a second time. Had Clements been franchised, he could have been traded. He was widely considered the top free agent available (for whatever reason) and would have easily commanded a first day pick. Like Asante Samuel?
benderbender Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 Stevie Johnson is not a #1 receiver and it would have been good to have Evans as a decoy, if only to give opposing defenses more to gameplan for. But not to worry, we're letting SJ walk too. But this time, no great 4th round draft pick as compensation.
BillsVet Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) So you are saying we should have beat the 49ers offer of $80 million and kept Clements here? If that's the case, put down the crack pipe and step away from the computer please. $42+ mil for Poz? LOL. McGahee pouted like a child and wanted out of here no matter what. Lynch turned on beast mode whenever he felt like it (about 2 runs a game), and is still one arrest away from being suspended. Lee Evans will go down as the most overrated Buffalo Bill in team history. On any other team he would be a mediocre #3 receiver. Smartest thing that guy ever did was pick #83 - had every casual fan duped for his entire career. And don't say I'm kicking him on the way out, I have been bashing him since 2008. Not surprisingly, every time we get rid of some overpriced player, there will be a group of delusional fans who think we lost a Hall of Famer. The more things change indeed. Here's the thing, and it's a nuanced argument so it typically goes over the head of big homers, but you don't let top players get to the season before they hit UFA unsigned. It should be noted for the one millionth time that the deal was closer to 7 years and 64M with about 25M guaranteed. Not exactly the 80M his agent probably reported to the press, but would not have been as high if Buffalo made a decision on the player during the early part of 2006. But I digress. GM's and Pro Personnel types get paid to manage and anticipate issues before they become obvious. A good front office would have made a decision to either re-sign NC during the 06 off-season or franchise and then trade him if they deemed him not part of their future plans. Marv and the rest of management did neither, lost the player, and went about blowing more picks on DB's. Buffalo's motive for all of these player departures is simple: money. I didn't expect for one minute they'd retain all 9 of those departed players, but with their cap situation it's reasonable they could have retained 3 or 4. Not so, and the product never seems to escape the 4-7 win territory while homers rejoice when RW saves money and buy into the maligning talk spewing from OBD. Edited December 28, 2011 by BillsVet
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 Here's the thing, and it's a nuanced argument so it typically goes over the head of big homers So you're saying that the homers here are not as intelligent as the haters. That statement must have taken quite a bit of intellect to arrive at. I guess we should all be grateful to your towering intellect for pointing out that "nuanced" distinction to all the stupid people here.
BillsVet Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 So you're saying that the homers here are not as intelligent as the haters. That statement must have taken quite a bit of intellect to arrive at. I guess we should all be grateful to your towering intellect for pointing out that "nuanced" distinction to all the stupid people here. I wouldn't go so far as to put words into my mouth, and if you're alleging this is directed at anyone in particular, you're flat wrong. Go on being self-righteous and defending an organization mired in a 12 year slump that apparently is on the verge of greatness if it weren't for another season of massive injuries. I just have a hard time rationalizing failure year in and year out.
thewildrabbit Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 I'm sure at the time Evans was happy to be traded to a playoff team. Now, after his effort in the last game was questioned, his season has been a washout, and he knows he'll be gone after the season, I doubt he's all that happy. He'll need to perform like a monster in the playoffs for the Ravens to even consider bringing him back. Will that happen? Doubtful at best. So again, the Bills won the trade since Evans did little for the Ravens and the Bills got their 4th rounder. Jeez, how many times do I need to say lets wait to see what he does the rest of this year and even next year before proclaiming over and over what a bust he has been. Evans is in a near perfect position to make an impact for the Ravens with Bolden hurt. Lets see if he has gotten a rapport and his timing down with Flacco. BTW, part of this entire debate is if Evans was worth a 4th. I'm starting to wonder if Joe Flacco is even worthy of that #1 pick and is even considered an "elite" QB at this point. Look at his current grade for this year. Flacco is rated right behind....Ryan Fitzpatrick at 12. Looking at the offensive personnel the Ravens have, and his OC in Cam Cameron I should think that so many other QB's would flourish in that same offense. Fitz would do much better with those same players.
bouds Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 He'll be cut before next season, Ravens wanted a stop gap until T.Smith was ready, guy looks ready. They'll cut ties with Evans, and Lee will be free to go to a team of his choosing.
Doc Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 Jeez, how many times do I need to say lets wait to see what he does the rest of this year and even next year before proclaiming over and over what a bust he has been. Evans is in a near perfect position to make an impact for the Ravens with Bolden hurt. Lets see if he has gotten a rapport and his timing down with Flacco. Evans started against the Browns and had zero catches. Luckily for them, they were playing the Browns. They'll lose this weekend to the Bengals and I doubt Evans does much better. As for next year, he's schedule to make almost $4.8M. Consider him gone unless he takes a major pay cut. BTW, part of this entire debate is if Evans was worth a 4th. I'm starting to wonder if Joe Flacco is even worthy of that #1 pick and is even considered an "elite" QB at this point. Look at his current grade for this year. Flacco is rated right behind....Ryan Fitzpatrick at 12. Looking at the offensive personnel the Ravens have, and his OC in Cam Cameron I should think that so many other QB's would flourish in that same offense. Fitz would do much better with those same players. It's a team game. Without that defense, the Ravens wouldn't be as good as they are.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) I wouldn't go so far as to put words into my mouth, and if you're alleging this is directed at anyone in particular, you're flat wrong. Go on being self-righteous and defending an organization mired in a 12 year slump that apparently is on the verge of greatness if it weren't for another season of massive injuries. I just have a hard time rationalizing failure year in and year out. I don't have to put words in your mouth… your words spoke for themselves: "Here's the thing, and it's a nuanced argument so it typically goes over the head of big homers… " And no. I'm not worried that they were directed at anyone in particular. It's more alarming that you would paint all people in one group with a single brush. Also, I criticize this organization as much as anyone. I also laud them for the things they do right and I'm not "self-righteously" defending anyone. BillsVet, some posters here attempt to be objective, fair and balanced. There are excellent posters here who sometimes criticize the organization and sometimes compliment them based on… wait for it… an attempt to be objective. Then there are posters who are like the political morons who think that all conservatives are evil and that all liberals are wonderful, or visa-versa. I personally haven't found that intelligence is the sole realm of the optimists or the pessimists. Typically the posters who don't sound like a broken record tend to be more intelligent regardless of whether they are "optimists" or "pessimists", IMO. Edited December 28, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) Lee was unfortunately another player in a long line of first round picks that just never turned into the guy he was supposed to be. Buffalo may have hosed his career with qb roulette all of those years but either way getting value out of the lynch and evans from the past is great by me. I am convinced they have pruned out all of the legacy knuckleheads bringing in bust after bust draft class. The best draft class in a long time seems to be materializing this year, interestingly coniciding with mordak's departure. Now toss in recent pick ups ubrick, Barnett and chandler,all impact performers. Smith is lost on me but I'll give it to them just b/c Barnett is soooo good. It may not be the right way but the team is finally headed somewhere. Edited December 28, 2011 by over 20 years of fanhood
maddenboy Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 I disagree, the jury is out and has announced their verdict, SOLID win for the Bills. Regardless of whether the Bills have replaced Evans, they are certainly no worse off without him. They dumped his salary, and gained a mid round draft pick. Losing Easly, Parrish, and Jones was unfortunate, but Evans was hurt as well. (when the Jury is OUT, it is out of the courtroom, deliberating over its verdict. Then, when the Jury is IN, we have it announce a decision/verdict. Just sayin. Carry on).
dave mcbride Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 Ah, I see. So a freak accident like a guy falling on Wood's leg is his fault. Okay. As for the trade looking "fair," was Peters the difference between the Bills making the playoffs the past 3 years? Was he the reason the Eagles made it his first 2 years? Or is it unfair because he's making the Pro Bowl (even though his team missed the playoffs this year, and looks like they are in for a coaching change next year)? The funny part is that with Vick being a lefty, he now protects his QB's "sight" side, and his and Vick's $100M contracts will hamstring them going forward, now that the salary cap is lower and important UFA's are coming up for them. And as for Evans, the Bills couldn't trade him before the draft. There was a lockout, you see. And he's been "beleaguered" by injuries, as well as poor effort, despite being on a winning team. Meaning he never really had it in him. Lynch OTOH was being run out of town by the fans (can't remember if you were one of them), and the FO was wary of him being suspended again. And a 4th is all you could expect for a guy in his position. Too bad he didn't grow up sooner, because he'd have been a fan favorite here. Freak accidents aren't freak in the NFL -- they can happen on any play. That said, i can sort of see your point about Wood. As for Peters, give it up. I see a lot of Eagles games, and he's really good -- dominating, in fact. Bills fans need to accept that fact, finally.
Jerry Jabber Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 Jeez, how many times do I need to say lets wait to see what he does the rest of this year and even next year before proclaiming over and over what a bust he has been. Evans is in a near perfect position to make an impact for the Ravens with Bolden hurt. Lets see if he has gotten a rapport and his timing down with Flacco. BTW, part of this entire debate is if Evans was worth a 4th. I'm starting to wonder if Joe Flacco is even worthy of that #1 pick and is even considered an "elite" QB at this point. Look at his current grade for this year. Flacco is rated right behind....Ryan Fitzpatrick at 12. Looking at the offensive personnel the Ravens have, and his OC in Cam Cameron I should think that so many other QB's would flourish in that same offense. Fitz would do much better with those same players. More excuses for Evans. It's Flacco's fault... it's Fitzpatrick's fault... it's Trent Edwards fault... it's JP Losman's fault that Evans hasn't been successful!!
Dawgg Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 Like Asante Samuel? Comparing the Super Bowl bound Patriots to the rebuilding Bills is pretty foolish, Doc. It was prudent for the Patriots to bring in Asante Samuel for one more season for no compensation because they had loaded up for a championship run. If you recall, that was the year they finished 16-0 in the regular season. There's no excuse for a rebuilding team, coming off a 5 win season, to settle for zero compensation when dealing with its most valuable asset.
Jerry Jabber Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) http://www.nfl.com/player/leeevans/2506097/profile 2011 Baltimore Ravens G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD 8 2 4 74 18.5 32 0 In 8 games played, Evans is averaging 0.5 Receptions per game and 9.25 yards per game. Evans was targeted 4 times in the Browns game and had 0 receptions. Edited December 28, 2011 by Jerry Jabber
Mickey Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 A little premature gloating I would say. Lee has been hurt all year but played through some of it. No off season to practice the new offense he is learning and develop chemistry with Flacco. By the time he had even gotten on the field Flacco had already developed chemistry with Torrey Smith in addition to Boldin making Evans a 3rd option at best. Given that our #2 WR for the last several weeks has been a backup QB Brad Smith and our #3 WR was #6 on the depth chart to start the year I am STILL disappointed that we let him go. Yeah, I didn't care all that much about the trade either way at the time but I don't see how those who were for it think they deserve a victory lap for having, in Kreshkin-like fashion, predicted he would get injured and miss half or more of the season. Maybe he is washed up, maybe not. Either way, its not our problem anymore.
Doc Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 Freak accidents aren't freak in the NFL -- they can happen on any play. That said, i can sort of see your point about Wood. As for Peters, give it up. I see a lot of Eagles games, and he's really good -- dominating, in fact. Bills fans need to accept that fact, finally. At $10M+/year, I'd expect him to be really good. The Bills got good production at LT out of Bell, Hairston, and for a game (Washington), Levitre. The LT spot wasn't the difference in their season. Comparing the Super Bowl bound Patriots to the rebuilding Bills is pretty foolish, Doc. It was prudent for the Patriots to bring in Asante Samuel for one more season for no compensation because they had loaded up for a championship run. If you recall, that was the year they finished 16-0 in the regular season. There's no excuse for a rebuilding team, coming off a 5 win season, to settle for zero compensation when dealing with its most valuable asset. Wait, so the Bills knew they had no chance at the SB, or even playoffs, and shouldn't have done what they did with Clements, but the Pats knew they were SB bound and thus losing Samuel for nothing was a good move? Yeah, okay. Not to mention the Pats lost that SB. Was it still a good move on their part losing Samuel for nothing? Let's say Marv doesn't promise Clements to not franchise him, he sits out 8 games, probably has a poor season, and then destroys whatever trade value he may have had. Where would that have gotten the Bills?
bizell Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 Evans started against the Browns and had zero catches. Luckily for them, they were playing the Browns. They'll lose this weekend to the Bengals and I doubt Evans does much better. I'm not defending Evans, but the Browns' pass defense ain't nothing to laugh at. #2 in yards allowed, #6 in completion percentage (56.4), #10 in passer rating allowed (81.4), #1 in completions allowed (242, tied for 4th in least amount of TDs allowed (16)
dave mcbride Posted December 28, 2011 Posted December 28, 2011 At $10M+/year, I'd expect him to be really good. The Bills got good production at LT out of Bell, Hairston, and for a game (Washington), Levitre. The LT spot wasn't the difference in their season. I agree with you that the LT position wasn't a huge problem. But I would also suggest that cap numbers are irrelevant with regard to the Bills. He's being paid the going rate. I'm not defending Evans, but the Browns' pass defense ain't nothing to laugh at. #2 in yards allowed, #6 in completion percentage (56.4), #10 in passer rating allowed (81.4), #1 in completions allowed (242, tied for 4th in least amount of TDs allowed (16) I'm not defending Evans either, but this is an excellent point.
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