todd Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 (this reply is not aimed at you specifically) Rights?!? This is the worst argument from the smokers' side. They sound so ridiculous when they get all huffy about their "rights". As far as I know, there is nothing in the Constitution or Bill of Rights that says anything about people being allowed to do their drug of choice whenever and where ever they feel like it. Nor is anything written regarding the right to subject other people to your habit and mess with their health and safety. Her rights go about as far as her ability to stay home and smoke on her own property, since her drug of choice is legal. That's about it. +1 Americans are so whiny they can't differentiate between a "right" and a "privilege"
Toshiero Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 Saw our last home game Saturday at the Ralph - after 10 years as a season ticket holder in the club seats (sad)! And 50 years of going with my Dad to games and sitting in his season seats. Never thought we would give them up - but this whole smoking ban really made us mad. Guys from the Press Box are allowed to walk 5 feet outside the gate, smoke their cigarette, and then come right back into the stadium. You or me -NO. I am a considerate smoker (would only smoke away from non-smokers), but this is ridiculous. There is enough smoke in the parking lot every Sunday to cloud the air when the wind is still. When we bought our seasons, we had heated seats, minimal hassle getting into the game, and staff that made you feel appreciated. All of that is gone. Did some research, and found that only 3 of the 31 stadiums have rules similar to the Ralph. The other 90% of the stadiums either have smoking areas or allow fans to go to their cars and then re-enter the stadium. Washington even has a cigar bar in their stadium. I am not defending a bad habit - but the overuse of alcohol is an equally bad habit. This is okay since the organization makes money on this one! I am surprised that the Bills did this to further reduce their season ticket base - but it is their business to run. Looking forward to road trips next season to see our Bills - and ENJOY the experience. Smoking should be abolished in America period. That said I read your title and thought maybe you had wised up not to pay ralph anymore to keep putting a crappy team on the field, I was wrong
UConn James Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 Yep, if it helps you through your day and cope with life then it's bad for you. But don't feel singled out, that guy slaps pacifiers out of babies mouths and kicks walkers out from under the elderly too. Can't have pacifiers ruling our infants lives! I think they should ban your ability to use the internet. it is called freedom. Quit stepping on it you commie. I forget who said it, but "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins." If blowing smoke for everyone around you to inhale is a freedom, then I'm sure you won't mind granting me the freedom to piss on your head. Your definition of freedom is seriously skewed.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) I forget who said it, but "The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins." If blowing smoke for everyone around you to inhale is a freedom, then I'm sure you won't mind granting me the freedom to piss on your head. Your definition of freedom is seriously skewed. Beer piss from being bombed out of your mind at a football game or just regular piss? Why are you people who are criticizing smokers and their 2nd hand smoke continuing to avoid the fact that drunk a-holes at football games are also subjecting non-drunks to their: 1) Urinating in public 2) Vomiting 3) Fighting 4) Abusive language and profanity 5) Injuring and possibly killiing other fans while driving while intoxicated to and from the stadium If we can stop bashing on smokers here for a moment, can someone please explain to me why drunks have more rights to their behavior than smokers do? Edited December 27, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan
DrDawkinstein Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 Beer piss from being bombed out of your mind at a football game or just regular piss? Why are you people who are criticizing smokers and their 2nd hand smoke continuing to avoid the fact that drunk a-holes at football games are also subjecting non-drunks to their: 1) Urinating in public 2) Vomiting 3) Fighting 4) Abusive language and profanity 5) Injuring and possibly killiing other fans while driving while intoxicated to and from the stadium If we can stop bashing on smokers here for a moment, can someone please explain to me why drunks have more rights to their behavior than smokers do? First off, I agree with your take on Drinkers, especially at the game. They are more dangerous and more annoying than smokers. Even after I turned 21, I didnt drink at games. Im there for FOOTBALL, not to get loaded. And when you are loaded, you cant follow or remember the game. What a wasted $100+! To answer your bolded question, that's simple and I think you know why... The Bills and the NFL profit from beer sales. Therefore, booze stays. It's not fair or logical, but that's how it is. When do they stop selling beer at games? Is it after the 3rd quarter? Do they do that anymore?
backinwny Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 What gets me is for some reason the majority of smokers feel that they are exempt from the littering laws……. It never fails, walking into a store with a cigarette disposer right at the door; so many smokers have to toss the butt on the ground….really?? Why??
CBD Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 When do they stop selling beer at games? Is it after the 3rd quarter? Do they do that anymore? Halftime
UConn James Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 Beer piss from being bombed out of your mind at a football game or just regular piss? Why are you people who are criticizing smokers and their 2nd hand smoke continuing to avoid the fact that drunk a-holes at football games are also subjecting non-drunks to their: 1) Urinating in public 2) Vomiting 3) Fighting 4) Abusive language and profanity 5) Injuring and possibly killiing other fans while driving while intoxicated to and from the stadium If we can stop bashing on smokers here for a moment, can someone please explain to me why drunks have more rights to their behavior than smokers do? Maybe it seems that way. But the simple thing is that with someone drinking alcohol, it doesn't necessarily mean that the drinker's actions are going to cause an annoyance or harm to someone. It is possible for people to drink and not be a bother to anyone. With smoking, that's much more difficult if not impossible; the act and physical reality that inherently goes with smoking is the harm. Also, there are rules regarding the behavior of drunks as well. It's not like they get off Scot-free because they bought the beer from the stadium vendors.
DrDawkinstein Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 Maybe it seems that way. But the simple thing is that with someone drinking alcohol, it doesn't necessarily mean that the drinker's actions are going to cause an annoyance or harm to someone. It is possible for people to drink and not be a bother to anyone. With smoking, that's much more difficult if not impossible; the act and physical reality that inherently goes with smoking is the harm. Also, there are rules regarding the behavior of drunks as well. It's not like they get off Scot-free because they bought the beer from the stadium vendors. Very good point as well. And Id like to point out again, no one has any right to partake in these activities. It's a privilege. Just like driving. Or did we all forget what our parents told us at 16?
backinwny Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 Forgot to share what my buddy told said a long time ago (have to give credit where credit is do) "Having a designated smoking area in a bar/restaurant is like having a designated pissing area in a pool"....... Happy New Year!! Go Bills!!
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 Maybe it seems that way. But the simple thing is that with someone drinking alcohol, it doesn't necessarily mean that the drinker's actions are going to cause an annoyance or harm to someone. It is possible for people to drink and not be a bother to anyone. With smoking, that's much more difficult if not impossible; the act and physical reality that inherently goes with smoking is the harm. Also, there are rules regarding the behavior of drunks as well. It's not like they get off Scot-free because they bought the beer from the stadium vendors. James, you're a good poster and this is not directed at you personally. I'm just springboarding off your comments. At 5 pages and counting, it's reached the point where I don't expect everyone to read through the entire thread before commenting, although very conscientious posters will do that. The discussion was about providing smoking areas for smokers or allowing them to leave the stadium (security gates I assume) and return so that they can smoke. There is no smoking areas at The Ralph anymore and those leaving the stadium to smoke are not allowed to return. I'll add, that smokers are being called whiners in this thread. But if there was a smoking area as apparently there was in years past, you'd have people smoking OUTDOORS in a designated smoking area with a very few fans getting SMELLS of second-hand smoke. SMELLS, not some sort of actual smoke/health hazard. In this context the smokers are not the whiners. It's the people who smell the smoke from afar in an outdoor setting who are the whiners. People who are anti-smoking will conveniently ignore all the real issues in this discussion. Ranting onto a tangent, no one is arguing whether smoking is bad, or a bad decision. Smoking is bad and a bad decision. But this country has extracted many billions of dollars from smokers in taxes and from tobacco companies in settlements but they want to restrict the behavior of smokers while allowing drunks to ruin the gameday experience for others.
bbb Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 James, you're a good poster and this is not directed at you personally. I'm just springboarding off your comments. At 5 pages and counting, it's reached the point where I don't expect everyone to read through the entire thread before commenting, although very conscientious posters will do that. The discussion was about providing smoking areas for smokers or allowing them to leave the stadium (security gates I assume) and return so that they can smoke. There is no smoking areas at The Ralph anymore and those leaving the stadium to smoke are not allowed to return. I'll add, that smokers are being called whiners in this thread. But if there was a smoking area as apparently there was in years past, you'd have people smoking OUTDOORS in a designated smoking area with a very few fans getting SMELLS of second-hand smoke. SMELLS, not some sort of actual smoke/health hazard. In this context the smokers are not the whiners. It's the people who smell the smoke from afar in an outdoor setting who are the whiners. People who are anti-smoking will conveniently ignore all the real issues in this discussion. Ranting onto a tangent, no one is arguing whether smoking is bad, or a bad decision. Smoking is bad and a bad decision. But this country has extracted many billions of dollars from smokers in taxes and from tobacco companies in settlements but they want to restrict the behavior of smokers while allowing drunks to ruin the gameday experience for others. Great post - you have totally nailed the picture.......Like I said earlier, I didn't even know where the smoking areas were, they were so far removed from bothering any of us non-smokers. The team should not be alienating any of it's fans.
agardin Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 There was a somking section outdoors away from anyone. No one was blowing smoke in any faces. There is zero health risk from having an outdoor smoking section removed from patrons. It is not a right but it is also not very accomodating to a significant portion of your fans. Why get rid of the smoking section? They (politicians and activists groups) are creating a situation where if someone isn't going to quit for the right reason they will make you quit for the wrong reasons. And don't say second hand smoke kills because having a smoking section along the fence at the stadium will not cause anyone any harm. People have negative reaction to political groups imposing their will over others. The key words below are 'motivate smokers to try to quit' Removing more and more places where people can smoke is a very active strategy. Here it is right from NY State DOH. Their stated goal is to rid the state of tobacco use. They do not say to have an accomodating society where people who smoke can live alongside non smokers in peace and harmony in a safe environment for non smokers. http://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/tobacco_control/ The program began in January 2000, and is built on a foundation of community partners using evidence-based strategies from the Guide to Community Preventive Services to decrease tobacco use. Over time, the program has effectively implemented a strong clean indoor air law, maintained support for high tobacco taxes to keep the price of tobacco high, and worked to increase access to effective cessation services and motivate smokers to try to quit. As a result of programmatic efforts, youth and adult smoking rates are at their lowest levels on record.
Toshiero Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 (this reply is not aimed at you specifically, T-good) Rights?!? This is the worst argument from the smokers' side. They sound so ridiculous when they get all huffy about their "rights". As far as I know, there is nothing in the Constitution or Bill of Rights that says anything about people being allowed to do their drug of choice whenever and where ever they feel like it. Nor is anything written regarding the right to subject other people to your habit and mess with their health and safety. Her rights go about as far as her ability to stay home and smoke on her own property, since her drug of choice is legal. That's about it. ^^^^ this!!! Thank you!! last time I checked the first thing a doc does when you are born is establish your air way. Same for first aid. I don't remember anyone coming out of their mother with a pack in one hand and a lighter in the other. Smokers have NO rights period. It is a drug and an addiction that seriously effects the health of others.
DrDawkinstein Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) I cant go 3 hours without touching myself and should be able to do so wherever I want, when ever I want. Why cant the Bills designate "Jerkin' It" areas where I can whip it out and take care of business? It is my RIGHT as a citizen. It's not illegal, it's frowned upon. Like masturbating on an airplane... Edited December 27, 2011 by DrDareustein
Toshiero Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 Great post - you have totally nailed the picture.......Like I said earlier, I didn't even know where the smoking areas were, they were so far removed from bothering any of us non-smokers. The team should not be alienating any of it's fans. There shouldnt' be any smoking areas. If they can't do without their addiction for 4 hours then stay home.
Maddog69 Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 Have no issue with the smoking bans where they are enforced for everyone - and do not defend the habit. But the exception for the Press Box folks is what made me mad. Would renew our seasons if not for this exception. 1.) I don't believe that the press box exception is the reason you are giving up your tix 2.) the reason for the press box exception is that anyone from the press box has press credentials and is therefore entitled to come and go from the stadium at will. They do not use a ticket to get it. The Bills don't allow ticket holders to leave and come back because one person could easily leave with more than one ticket and come back with other non-paying people. The Bills don't want to pay to babysit those who cannot control their smoking habit for 3 hours. 3.) I agree with the earlier poster who said smoking should be totally banned. It is a filthy, disgusting habit and directly causes serious illnesses and costs the government, the medical industry and the taxpayers BILLIONS of dollars. I say good riddance to you as a season ticket holder. I will enjoy the cleaner air in the stadium without all the smokers.
Turbosrrgood Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 (edited) Beer piss from being bombed out of your mind at a football game or just regular piss? Why are you people who are criticizing smokers and their 2nd hand smoke continuing to avoid the fact that drunk a-holes at football games are also subjecting non-drunks to their: 1) Urinating in public 2) Vomiting 3) Fighting 4) Abusive language and profanity 5) Injuring and possibly killiing other fans while driving while intoxicated to and from the stadium If we can stop bashing on smokers here for a moment, can someone please explain to me why drunks have more rights to their behavior than smokers do? Yeah I get what you are saying but it comes down to this... If someone near you smokes, chances are you will be forced to inhale the smoke with them. If some one near you drinks, you will not likely be forced to drink the beer with them (peer pressure?). While alcohol does cause those behavior issues above, they are indirect BEHAVIORAL issues. You could compare those secondary effects to a secondary effect such as constantly coughing near you after one is done smoking. It's not the same as being directly affected by actually inhaling or drinking the product. Just pointing out the facts, smoking in public directly affects non smokers. Drinking in public does not directly affect non drinkers. It's very simple actually. You have the right to smoke all you want, but you don't have the right to make others smoke your cigarette with you. Edited December 27, 2011 by Turbosrrgood
GOBILLS78 Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 I cant go 3 hours without touching myself and should be able to do so wherever I want, when ever I want. Why cant the Bills designate "Jerkin' It" areas where I can whip it out and take care of business? It is my RIGHT as a citizen.
Direhard Fan Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 I smoked for 40 years. Had a massive heart attack due 100% to smokeing. I can't go to the Ralph anymore either. Can't walk the steps. Boy- sure wish I could. Really miss that place. Started with the rock pile. Now nothing. Be happy with what you have. Keep your tickets and enjoy. Wish I could.
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