Chan's offensive Choice s this season

[Max997]

Chan's playcalling is more about calling plays he wants to call rather then calling plays he should call

 

He is so enamored with the passing game and that 5 wide empty backfield set that he ignores the run even when its working. The Titans have been bad against the run all year, Spiller looked good in the first half but Chan would rather force the pass then go with the running game thats working

[vincec]

One thing to consider: The Bills RBs have a high run average because the Bills pass so much. They face a lot of nickel defenses with players spread out so that there are holes for quick backs with good vision to run to. If the Bills came out in two tight ends or a FB and a TE they would be looking at 8 man fronts with 3 or 4 LBs in the game. I'm fairly certain that the rushing average would go down significantly. Also, neither Jackson nor Spiller are the kind of between the tackles, power backs that would do well rushing in this type of situation.

 

I do agree that the Bills should run it a little more, but I don't think it makes sense to switch to a conservative, power offense. Look at the top offenses in the league: Saints, Packers, Patriots, Eagles. They are all primarily passing offenses.

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

If we ever get to 3rd and 1 yard to 3 yrads we always pass and ususally with emoty backfield. Just run more and we would be better.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

One thing to consider: The Bills RBs have a high run average because the Bills pass so much. They face a lot of nickel defenses with players spread out so that there are holes for quick backs with good vision to run to. If the Bills came out in two tight ends or a FB and a TE they would be looking at 8 man fronts with 3 or 4 LBs in the game. I'm fairly certain that the rushing average would go down significantly. Also, neither Jackson nor Spiller are the kind of between the tackles, power backs that would do well rushing in this type of situation.

 

I do agree that the Bills should run it a little more, but I don't think it makes sense to switch to a conservative, power offense. Look at the top offenses in the league: Saints, Packers, Patriots, Eagles. They are all primarily passing offenses.

 

Vincec, one of the things I've seen when I've been able to see the games, is other teams stacking the box to take away the short passing game and overload the protection, because no one fears our ability to throw deep when Fitz is under pressure.

They get penetration into our backfield early and sometimes stuff the run behind the LOS. I haven't seen a lot of the more conventional nickel defenses in recent games, because (see above). That's just what I've seen. Also right now, we only have two reasonable receivers plus Chandler. Isn't it possible we'd gain protection with a TE and a FB kept in?

 

When I've scored Pats and Packers games, in the games I've scored they have success when they balance the pass and the run (run about 45-50%), with the exception of hurry-up offense at the end of the half or game, more like 20% run.

Caveat: that was the games I scored, point being in those games, the run game didn't get them a lot of yards, but the attempts to run/need to defense the run kept the D honest.

[vincec]

Vincec, one of the things I've seen when I've been able to see the games, is other teams stacking the box to take away the short passing game and overload the protection, because no one fears our ability to throw deep when Fitz is under pressure.

They get penetration into our backfield early and sometimes stuff the run behind the LOS. I haven't seen a lot of the more conventional nickel defenses in recent games, because (see above). That's just what I've seen. Also right now, we only have two reasonable receivers plus Chandler. Isn't it possible we'd gain protection with a TE and a FB kept in?

 

When I've scored Pats and Packers games, in the games I've scored they have success when they balance the pass and the run (run about 45-50%), with the exception of hurry-up offense at the end of the half or game, more like 20% run.

Caveat: that was the games I scored, point being in those games, the run game didn't get them a lot of yards, but the attempts to run/need to defense the run kept the D honest.

This is true. Since the first Jets game I see more bump-and-run type coverages with blitzes in the box. The incidental benefit is that you have more men in there to defend against the run. To beat it, you need either superior pass protection to allow receivers to work longer against the coverages or superior receivers to beat the coverages quickly, and of course strong QB play. The Bills haven't had any of these things.

 

Multiple TEs is out, IMO. The Bills don't even have one good TE right now and haven't really had more than Chandler at any point in the season. They could use McIntyre more. I wouldn't mind seeing this, but I am concerned about Spiller's ability to run behind a FB into a stacked defense. I still think it is preferable to put another WR out there and take a defender to the sidelines with him than play with a FB and rely on him blocking a LB at the point of attack. Maybe Chan and I went to the same school, but I agree with the general principle that most of the time when the other team stacks the box you throw the ball and when they back off you run it. That is what the Bills are trying to do.

Edited December 26, 2011 by vincec

[bizell]

I've got a few comments:

 

Gailey likes to use Choice waaayyy too much for my liking. The play that stands out last Saturday was that drop that would have been an easy touchdown that Fitzpatrick placed perfectly to beat the blitz. Tashard is, in my eyes, the wrong choice to get the ball so much. :rimshot:

 

I think we need to use Brad Smith more as a WR, but agree that he's been a disappointment as a KR.

 

one thing that has irked me all year: throwing long, low percentage bombs on 4th and _____. I guess I could understand the thinking of trying to surprise the defense, but don't agree with it

Edited December 26, 2011 by bizell

[Bob in STL]

Yesterday's red zone futility should lay bare Gailey's inability to call a game in the NFL. Passing over and over on 3rd and short.

 

 

We started the season with an excellent red zone record. Take away Jackson, Chandler, a legit #2 WR and you now have a problem.

 

I think we need to find a way to use a fullback and Brad Smith more in these situations.

 

I do not like empty backfields when inside the 5 or 10 yard line. I think it gives the defense a big advantage.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Bob in STL

[San-O]

Chan's playcalling is more about calling plays he wants to call rather then calling plays he should call

 

He is so enamored with the passing game and that 5 wide empty backfield set that he ignores the run even when its working. The Titans have been bad against the run all year, Spiller looked good in the first half but Chan would rather force the pass then go with the running game thats working

 

+ 1

[Billy in 4C]

Last week the Bills have the ball 3rd and short on Denver's 5 yard line. They pull out Stevie, Nelson and Spiller and put in the package of Choice, one of our unknown TEs and one of the receivers we picked up the last few weeks (I think Hagan). Denver then proceeds to stack the box. Fitz drops back, runs around and throws the ball errant to the backup TE incomplete. Raynor's FG is good! Bills fans cheer! What a joke.

[flmike]

Where to start on this? I agree with other posters that CJ is not an every down back, yet. May never be. I think Chan would keep him in the backfield on passing downs, but he still can't pick up a blitz or gets mowed down when he tries. That's where we really miss Fred. Choice gets in there because he is simply better at getting one or two yards up the gut. Even then... Some of the pass plays to Choice and CJ were on Fitz for poor throws or on the backs for being in the wrong place on a timing route.

 

Do you really want to see Brad Smith failing on the Wildcat more? Chan had enough, that's for sure. He can't run and he can't throw the ball. Oh yes, he's not a good receiver, either. They put in that cross-field pass to him and ran it a million times before giving up on it. He's actually pretty useless on this team.

 

Now, I do think that Chan is over enamored with the spread offense, but that's what they have this year. You can only add so many plays during a week of practice. Folks, we just need some more talent and fewer injuries. I still think Fitz is nursing a painful injury. When he ran on Sunday, I had to tip my cap to him. He's a fighter, but I wonder if he is a leader. His hang-dog looks during the game bring his teammates down, no doubt.

[BillsVet]

Seeing Tashard Choice on the field in third down situations drop passes and run for small gains indicates to me that Chan is in protect mode re: his job. He's not going to allow rookies or lesser experienced players like Spiller to make mistakes when he can take the safe route with people he knows. And he's not calling the downfield throws anymore which were intercepted in games like at NYG. Rather, everything is in the flat, and those short passes every team knows is coming.

 

Chan plays Choice for the same reason DJ had Anthony Thomas start a few years ago when Fred Jackson was waiting in the wings. Thomas was clearly past his prime and offered little, but was the safer option for DJ who had him for three seasons in Chicago. HC's always go with their guys, especially when they need them to get the ball.

 

Coaches are about self-preservation in the NFL and hope that translates into wins. Chan is no different and undoubtedly knows being 10-21 is a lot closer to being unemployed than being 4-12 with cast-offs.

Edited December 26, 2011 by BillsVet

[3rdand12]

Wouldn't you run the Bigger back on short yardage or red zone. I listened to the game and Choice dropped a td pass play it sounded like. But he has been on the team just a couple weeks and no one else seems to be able to catch Ryans passes either.

Not sure that Chan's choices have been wrong, but they could be better. i think it comes down to a lack of execution between fitz and receivers more often than not. although i have mostly been listening to games lately!?

[AxelRipper]

I think people are reading too much into the use of Choice. He got used a lot this weekend because he's a similar runner to Fred. Big and runs between the tackles, while being able to pass block. Those are 2 things that Spiller isn't as good at. With the loss of Fred, Gailey needed a big back and picked up Choice.

 

If it were Fred in there, chances are some of those drops and misses would have converted, and people would be complaining about not using FredEX enough. Looks like Gailey is really focusing on trying to be able to use 2 different style backs for next year, it just happens that our good power back is on IR right now.

[bowery4]

Wow, Lots of good points here now. I realize of course, that a lot of the decisions that Chan makes have to do with injuries and game situations. I like better balance in play calls, I like the ability to go spread (and think it would be great if we did hurry up more sometimes when we do it). I guess I like it and realize that in a passing league they need to use it BUT I wonder about the weaknesses that this exposes you to in the 16 games (face it there are going to be injuries and QB inconsistency at times).

 

I want him to be building a very solid running team for NOV-JAN, as well.To me it takes both to set up the other. I like Chan and think he will think it out too. I do think he needs to do this to stop this season from happening again next season (on the offense anyway). There were time early in the season when he went spread on 3rd and short in the red zone too, so I don't think it is all about injuries. BTW this post was more about the kinds of things they need to do going forward on offense more than anything. One of the biggest things to me at least is obviously the D, that will of course influence the play of the O. I actually think they can and will be headed in the right direction but see more specific adjustments to be made on offense. Which is why I focused on that, I think if the D improves next year it will be easy to find the things that they need to improve too. Right now they don't do all that much all that well, so they just more in a general way need to improve things.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

This is true. Since the first Jets game I see more bump-and-run type coverages with blitzes in the box. The incidental benefit is that you have more men in there to defend against the run. To beat it, you need either superior pass protection to allow receivers to work longer against the coverages or superior receivers to beat the coverages quickly, and of course strong QB play. The Bills haven't had any of these things.

 

Multiple TEs is out, IMO. The Bills don't even have one good TE right now and haven't really had more than Chandler at any point in the season. They could use McIntyre more. I wouldn't mind seeing this, but I am concerned about Spiller's ability to run behind a FB into a stacked defense. I still think it is preferable to put another WR out there and take a defender to the sidelines with him than play with a FB and rely on him blocking a LB at the point of attack. Maybe Chan and I went to the same school, but I agree with the general principle that most of the time when the other team stacks the box you throw the ball and when they back off you run it. That is what the Bills are trying to do.

 

Hey vincec good points on the number of quality TE. Smith, when he was healthy, was supposed to be a good blocking TE. My question to you is why is it preferable to put another WR out there? Do we really have more talent and quality at WR than at TE? It seems to me it's been Johnson, Nelson, and who else? Chandler and Jackson could both catch capably but who else as wideouts? I think the principle that you throw when the other team stacks the box works when 1) you have the protection to give the receivers time to get open 2) you have the quality WR to really spread the field. As you say the Bills are trying to do this, but since the Jets game they haven't been succeeding. So it seems it would have been worth trying something else, if for no other reason than to give the opponents something they didn't have film on, and keep subsequent opponents guessing in what to prepare for.

 

The SB era Bills had a very limited repetoire, and (at their peak) the talent to execute in the face of the opposition even when the opponents knew what they were going to try. We ain't there right now. When I can call what the next play will be from my armchair, the guys on the field get stuffed.

[San-O]

Hey vincec good points on the number of quality TE. Smith, when he was healthy, was supposed to be a good blocking TE. My question to you is why is it preferable to put another WR out there? Do we really have more talent and quality at WR than at TE? It seems to me it's been Johnson, Nelson, and who else? Chandler and Jackson could both catch capably but who else as wideouts? I think the principle that you throw when the other team stacks the box works when 1) you have the protection to give the receivers time to get open 2) you have the quality WR to really spread the field. As you say the Bills are trying to do this, but since the Jets game they haven't been succeeding. So it seems it would have been worth trying something else, if for no other reason than to give the opponents something they didn't have film on, and keep subsequent opponents guessing in what to prepare for.

 

The SB era Bills had a very limited repetoire, and (at their peak) the talent to execute in the face of the opposition even when the opponents knew what they were going to try. We ain't there right now. When I can call what the next play will be from my armchair, the guys on the field get stuffed.

 

 

Chans offense was figured out by other D-coordinators, as many have previously pointed out, before the major injuries.

 

He was not able to make any adjustments. Or refused to do so.

[ganesh]

If we ever get to 3rd and 1 yard to 3 yrads we always pass and ususally with emoty backfield. Just run more and we would be better.

 

Or run the Wild Cat...It got 4-5 yards every time they ran it at the beginning of the season.

 

We started the season with an excellent red zone record. Take away Jackson, Chandler, a legit #2 WR and you now have a problem.

 

I think we need to find a way to use a fullback and Brad Smith more in these situations.

 

I do not like empty backfields when inside the 5 or 10 yard line. I think it gives the defense a big advantage.

 

Not to forget the absence of Wood in the middle of that OL....Wood was getting consistent push up front....something that allowed Jackson to thrive in the Red zone.

 

Chans offense was figured out by other D-coordinators, as many have previously pointed out, before the major injuries.

 

He was not able to make any adjustments. Or refused to do so.

And did not have the players to execute it...once Wood, Jackson were gone.

[Lenigmusx]

Chan'splaycalling has been pizz poor this year. He is a lousy head coach

You really are a troll. Please go back to your Tom Brady worship.

[missthe kgun]

I HATE 5 wide sets in short yardage and goal line sets.

 

Especially when you run the ball to get into those situations.

 

I HATE the Wildcat when I formation is working!!!

 

I hate the fact that I can call the play from my couch b4 it happens!!!

 

Now I am not an NFL HC, in fact, I coach youth league sports. My team did win the championship this year though (Chesapeake Tigers Mitey Mite) Hampton Roads Champs!!!

 

Now the sad part is...I ran a very similar offense to what Chan runs!!!

 

The diffence...I coach 8-9yr olds, and put the QB under center almost always so we could use play action!!!

 

Chan should fire himself as he is in over his head, I would love to compete against him on the AYF scene...Seems he may be best suited there!!!!!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I HATE 5 wide sets in short yardage and goal line sets.Especially when you run the ball to get into those situations.

 

I hate the fact that I can call the play from my couch b4 it happens!!!

 

Congrats on your youth league team win!

 

I think we have unusually unanimous agreement in hating the 5 WR set in short yardage and goal line situations.

 

I think the bolded part a real problem. There seem to be several of us long-time fans who see the same thing. Even in the K-gun when the repetoire was limited, I had more doubts.

 

The Bills self-scouting (or implementing changes as a result of same) would appear to be a serious gap.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Hopeful