CJ Spiller

[Alphadawg7]

Yea not to mention that our THIRTY YEAR OLD MVP candidate running back played a solid full season in 2010 while 22 year old spiller missed games. Knew this bs would start if spiller had 1 100 yard game, 1!!!!! Fred carried this team and does it all he blocks, catches and can fight for those tough yards in the trenches. I like spiller, think he is pretty good but don't start hating on our best player fickle bills fans. Fred is a stud for at least 2 more seasons maybe 3. We can use both of them ya know. Its good to have depth

 

Dud get a grip. Everyone loves FJ, but that doesn't change the fact that we have another great member of this team on and off the field in CJ.

 

Seriously, why all the hostility from so many postera because we have a stud in the making in CJ? The ONLY and I mean ONLY reason CJ hasn't had more 100 yard games in his starts is SOLELY because chan stupidly stops using him and decides its better to throw all 3 downs with Fitzcrap and go 3 and out despite CJ running great each game.

 

So spare us the dramatics of your "just one 100" yard game stuff as he has been going off just to see chan stop running in almost every game he has started. And he has almost got 100 yards with very limited carries in almost every game.

 

PS: FJ wan not a MVP candidate to anyone other than Bills fans when he got hurt. Stop living in the first 5 games. He had no shot to win it and no shot to finish even in top 5 at the time he was hurt. I love FJ, but this out right exaggeration needs to stop. Hell Trents name came up in MVP talks in 08 after 4 games and we all know that was not gonna happen either.

 

FJ wha having a great season but he was NOT in any way possible going to win the MVP nor wha he going to even be in the running by seasons end.

[BillsVet]

No, you didn't understand what I posted at all.

 

The player himself is what matters. It doesn't matter if you find a great QB early in the first round, late in the first like Rodgers, in the second, in the third, in the 6th like Brady, or in FA like Brees, in a trade like Favre. he just has to be good. If JP Losman was picked at the end of the first by the Packers and we picked Aaron Rodgers, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

The position of DE was not the problem with the pick of Aaron Maybin, Aaron Maybin the player was the problem. Good and great players are found everywhere, in every round, off the street, in FA, in trade. You have to pick and sign good players and have them coached by good coaches. Drafting three RBs was not the problem, the problem was the three RBs we drafted and the 60 other players we drafted or signed on the team.

 

First, I have to ask what the identity of this team is moving forward. Spiller is looking like a nice player, but is this a run first or pass first offense? It doesn't seem like either at this point late into the second season of rebuilding. People here talk up Gailey all the time, but what does this team do well that you can point to and say they're good at? If they're a pass first team, well, now they appear to have two good backs and a mediocre QB. If they're run first, Gailey throws it a lot and abandons the run when things aren't going well or they get one or two scores down.

 

And furthermore, when a team thinks it's rebuilding, just drafting good players isn't enough. Personnel then becomes more targeted and tailored to your team's identity. I just don't get the feeling Buffalo is developing anything than just trying to find players rather than identifying what they want to be. Spiller is an example of that.

[Kelly the Dog]

First, I have to ask what the identity of this team is moving forward. Spiller is looking like a nice player, but is this a run first or pass first offense? It doesn't seem like either at this point late into the second season of rebuilding. People here talk up Gailey all the time, but what does this team do well that you can point to and say they're good at? If they're a pass first team, well, now they appear to have two good backs and a mediocre QB. If they're run first, Gailey throws it a lot and abandons the run when things aren't going well or they get one or two scores down.

 

And furthermore, when a team thinks it's rebuilding, just drafting good players isn't enough. Personnel then becomes more targeted and tailored to your team's identity. I just don't get the feeling Buffalo is developing anything than just trying to find players rather than identifying what they want to be. Spiller is an example of that.

I think it's rather clear what they are trying to do, especially on offense. They are a pass first team. Gailey as an OC likes to pass. It's a pass league. But they also will run and run a lot out of that pass formation and scheme. The same way the K Gun was a pass first scheme and lineup and formation, but the key to the team was Thurman and the run game as much as Kelly and the pass game, and Thurman hurt teams both running and receiving and was up at the top of the league leaders in yards from scrimmage.

 

Early in the year, that's exactly what we were, and Freddy was running very well. We were a pass first team, and lined up almost exclusively out of the shotgun, and a lot of the holes in the run game and the openings for Freddy that he exploited were because teams had to play their nickel defense against us. We had a lot of weapons, between Stevie, Jones, Nelson, Chandler, Freddy, as well as Brad Smith and Spiller in cameos.

 

The OL held up well. They opened some holes in the run game because the pass was effective. They gave Fitz two seconds to throw and that was all he needed. The team was confident and efficient and the defense supported it by making turnovers and opportune stops.

 

IMO, teams didn't catch up to us at all, we self-destructed and because of injuries we couldn't at all do what we were doing. We withstood the first two injuries on the OL. The third one killed us, when Levitre had to play LT. And then Wood went down. Simultaneously, Jones was hurt and we lost another weapon. Suddenly Nelson and Chandler were not the #3 and #4 options they were #2 and #3. The OL didn't always give Fitz those two seconds. There were not as many openings for Freddy even though he was creating a lot on his own and short screens he turned into explosive plays.

 

Also simultaneously, Merriman and Williams went out for good. The defense no longer made plays they were crushed. The offense was off the field a lot and always playing behind or having to score. And it was an avalanche. Stevie could barely move and get open. Fitz no longer had several options or any confidence in the line. We could barely get the snap. We had 3-4 players on the OL hurt or out of position and it crumbled. Fitz regressed but I think almost all QBs would have under the circumstances. I also think he was and is still hurt. With Wood out, he doesn't step into the pocket and step into his throws. The WR that were 2 yards open are now barely open. Gailey I think lost confidence that Fitz could do what he was doing (again, I don't think it is wrong or that anyone could) and Gailey now tries to manufacture plays and drives because he stopped attacking. But it's understandable.

 

I think if we didn't have those three-four consecutive injuries on the OL, and we had Evans, or Roscoe or Easley or a combination of any two of them, and still had Freddy, as well as the defense collapsing and unable to stop anyone because of Williams and Merriman (as well as terrible coaching) we would be fine, and probably in the playoffs.

[NewEra]

1324920734[/url]' post='2345785']

Dud get a grip. Everyone loves FJ, but that doesn't change the fact that we have another great member of this team on and off the field in CJ.

 

Seriously, why all the hostility from so many postera because we have a stud in the making in CJ? The ONLY and I mean ONLY reason CJ hasn't had more 100 yard games in his starts is SOLELY because chan stupidly stops using him and decides its better to throw all 3 downs with Fitzcrap and go 3 and out despite CJ running great each game.

 

So spare us the dramatics of your "just one 100" yard game stuff as he has been going off just to see chan stop running in almost every game he has started. And he has almost got 100 yards with very limited carries in almost every game.

 

PS: FJ wan not a MVP candidate to anyone other than Bills fans when he got hurt. Stop living in the first 5 games. He had no shot to win it and no shot to finish even in top 5 at the time he was hurt. I love FJ, but this out right exaggeration needs to stop. Hell Trents name came up in MVP talks in 08 after 4 games and we all know that was not gonna happen either.

 

FJ wha having a great season but he was NOT in any way possible going to win the MVP nor wha he going to even be in the running by seasons end.

 

He was an MVP candidate according to all my friends. Each and every one of them dislikes the Bills. Each and every one of them is very knowledgable of the game. So, you are incorrect in your assessment that only bills fans thought he was an mvp candidate. I'm fairly certain that my friends aren't the only Non bills fans that thought the same. He was playing as well as any RB in the league. He was 50% of the offense for one of the highest scoring teams in the league. He was one of the leaders in tds. He was one of the leaders for RB receptions and receiving yards. He's one of the best blocking backs in the league. He was the main reason one of the least talented teams in the leagues was in position to make the playoffs. He was an MVP candidate. Without question. Would he have won the award? Almost certainly not, but he was one of the best players in the league. You can say all you want that he had no chance to finish in the top 5, it's nonsense. You may think he had no chance, but he definitely had a "chance". You are incorrect.

 

 

I agree with your statements regarding Cj. The only reason he doesn't have multiple 100 yard games is due to chan not giving him enough touches. Fred and Cj make one of the leagues best 1-2 punches. Keep both of them. Play both of them. Enjoy watching both of them.

Edited December 26, 2011 by NewEra

[PDaDdy]

Because you had 2 legit RBS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Marshawn and Fred were here!!!!!!!! Holy SH*T!!!!!!!!

 

You did realize that they were in the process of getting rid of Marshawn before that draft started right? As I agreed with another poster I would have preferred keeping Lynch and Jackson and going another direction with the Spiller pick. Unfortunately Lynch's transgressions brought out the torches and the pitch forks and his days were numbered. The decision to get rid of Lynch was made BEFORE the draft not AFTER they got Spiller. They needed a young stud RB to help and eventually supplant the aging Jackson.

 

If you didn't see that one coming I guess I can see why you would think Spiller was a luxury pick. For the people that knew what the plan was Spiller made sense and as DrD said was by far the BPA and at a position of need due to the hole the front office knew they were going to be creating by getting rid of Lynch.

 

Oh and DUMMY!.... Grow up dude.

Edited December 26, 2011 by PDaDdy

[Alphadawg7]

He was an MVP candidate according to all my friends. Each and every one of them dislikes the Bills. Each and every one of them is very knowledgable of the game. So, you are incorrect in your assessment that only bills fans thought he was an mvp candidate. I'm fairly certain that my friends aren't the only Non bills fans that thought the same. He was playing as well as any RB in the league. He was 50% of the offense for one of the highest scoring teams in the league. He was one of the leaders in tds. He was one of the leaders for RB receptions and receiving yards. He's one of the best blocking backs in the league. He was the main reason one of the least talented teams in the leagues was in position to make the playoffs. He was an MVP candidate. Without question. Would he have won the award? Almost certainly not, but he was one of the best players in the league. You can say all you want that he had no chance to finish in the top 5, it's nonsense. You may think he had no chance, but he definitely had a "chance". You are incorrect.

 

 

I agree with your statements regarding Cj. The only reason he doesn't have multiple 100 yard games is due to chan not giving him enough touches. Fred and Cj make one of the leagues best 1-2 punches. Keep both of them. Play both of them. Enjoy watching both of them.

 

Really, your argument is based on a few friends opinions? My friends dont agree with you, so there you go, an equally pointless statement. Fact and truth is, he was not in the top 5 discussion for MVP when he got hurt. Case closed.

 

I love FJ as much as anyone, but he was not going to win the MVP nor was he even a serious candidate at the time of his injury. This team and offense was no where near the same team when he was hurt that it was when his name was briefly thrown out as a dark horse MVP (mostly by Bills fans).

[starrymessenger]

Couple that with Fred's 18 (10 rushing/8 receiving) and I believe you have what Ralph Wilson calls, "Runners".

So do we draft Richardson if he falls to us (which I doubt)?

[BillsVet]

You did realize that they were in the process of getting rid of Marshawn before that draft started right? As I agreed with another poster I would have preferred keeping Lynch and Jackson and going another direction with the Spiller pick. Unfortunately Lynch's transgressions brought out the torches and the pitch forks and his days were numbered. The decision to get rid of Lynch was made BEFORE the draft not AFTER they got Spiller. They needed a young stud RB to help and eventually supplant the aging Jackson.

 

If you didn't see that one coming I guess I can see why you would think Spiller was a luxury pick. For the people that knew what the plan was Spiller made sense and as DrD said was by far the BPA and at a position of need due to the hole the front office knew they were going to be creating by getting rid of Lynch.

 

Oh and DUMMY!.... Grow up dude.

 

Jay Glazer reported that Buffalo was not listening to offer before Lynch was traded before the 2010 trade deadline.

 

Glazer per PFT re: Lynch

 

There was no long drawn out process for trading ML last year. And while I'm sure some will attack Glazer, this goes in-line with the Bills and their commitment to holding everything close to the vest. Peter King reported that the Bills were a "black hole of information" before the 2011 Draft.

 

I think we can insert that clip from Billy Madison again.

[Kelly the Dog]

Jay Glazer reported that Buffalo was not listening to offer before Lynch was traded before the 2010 trade deadline.

 

Glazer per PFT re: Lynch

 

There was no long drawn out process for trading ML last year. And while I'm sure some will attack Glazer, this goes in-line with the Bills and their commitment to holding everything close to the vest. Peter King reported that the Bills were a "black hole of information" before the 2011 Draft.

 

I think we can insert that clip from Billy Madison again.

Teams knew he was available. There was a report a couple weeks ago that the Seahawks called the Bills every week about him for about nine straight weeks. It's kind of surprising the Bills didn't get more for him, but they held out and decided that was all they were going to get. Plus, it was the first year of the Nix and Gailey era. They really didn't know what they had in Jackson or Lynch or Spiller. Immediately, both Lynch and jackson got hurt in training camp and missed it all. Spiller had to play and looked good. Jackson was never really given a chance because of his thumb. Spiller immediately looked not ready when the real bullets flew, mostly because of pass protection because our line was terrible. Gailey immediately realized Trent sucked and had to change the offense. There was a LOT going on then.

[T master]

Smart GM's, Winning GMs' GM's with half a brain still address OL or DL with that pick. What is our record?

 

 

Injuries had nothing to do with that though ask a Bills fan !!!!!!

[Doc]

Really, your argument is based on a few friends opinions? My friends dont agree with you, so there you go, an equally pointless statement. Fact and truth is, he was not in the top 5 discussion for MVP when he got hurt. Case closed.

 

I love FJ as much as anyone, but he was not going to win the MVP nor was he even a serious candidate at the time of his injury. This team and offense was no where near the same team when he was hurt that it was when his name was briefly thrown out as a dark horse MVP (mostly by Bills fans).

Fred was definitely an MVP candidate, much in the same way Matt Forte of the Bears was. He wasn't going to win it, what with the year QB's have been having, but he was a candidate.

[Kelly the Dog]

Fred was definitely an MVP candidate, much in the same way Matt Forte of the Bears was. He wasn't going to win it, what with the year QB's have been having, but he was a candidate.

Posters are arguing two different things. When the Bills were 5-2 and still the talk of the league, Freddy was definitely an MVP candidate and it was even stated in the national media, although at any point in the season Aaron Rodgers was the clear and really only choice for the award. Fred Jackson got hurt early in the 10th game. The shine had worn off on the Bills season and as one of the teams to beat by then. The Bills were 5-4 at the beginning of the game and to be 5-5 by the time it was over. Even though Jackson was leading the NFL in rushing at that point, he was no longer a serious MVP candidate, and Alphadawg was clear to point out each time he mentioned it "at the time of his injury he was not an MVP candidate", which was true. He was a legitimate candidate two weeks earlier though, after about half the season.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Teams knew he was available. There was a report a couple weeks ago that the Seahawks called the Bills every week about him for about nine straight weeks. It's kind of surprising the Bills didn't get more for him, but they held out and decided that was all they were going to get. Plus, it was the first year of the Nix and Gailey era. They really didn't know what they had in Jackson or Lynch or Spiller. Immediately, both Lynch and jackson got hurt in training camp and missed it all. Spiller had to play and looked good. Jackson was never really given a chance because of his thumb. Spiller immediately looked not ready when the real bullets flew, mostly because of pass protection because our line was terrible. Gailey immediately realized Trent sucked and had to change the offense. There was a LOT going on then.

There were teams that saw the Spiller pick and assumed the Bills would be willing to deal Lynch on draft day. That hardly means "he was available" as those teams were rebuffed. The calls were not returned. Nix and Gailey even stated publicly that they planned to use all 3 backs. But, when push came to shove, there came a day when Nix answered his phone and just replied, "OK, we'll take it" to the Seahawks offer. The Seahawks were blown away frankly by the lack of communication followed by the brevity of the (non-) negotiation. I think, Kelly, that you can put the rest together for yourself easily enough.

[BADOLBILZ]

Teams knew he was available. There was a report a couple weeks ago that the Seahawks called the Bills every week about him for about nine straight weeks. It's kind of surprising the Bills didn't get more for him, but they held out and decided that was all they were going to get. Plus, it was the first year of the Nix and Gailey era. They really didn't know what they had in Jackson or Lynch or Spiller. Immediately, both Lynch and jackson got hurt in training camp and missed it all. Spiller had to play and looked good. Jackson was never really given a chance because of his thumb. Spiller immediately looked not ready when the real bullets flew, mostly because of pass protection because our line was terrible. Gailey immediately realized Trent sucked and had to change the offense. There was a LOT going on then.

 

Enough with the "it was a justifiable pick because the two legit starting NFL RB's already on the roster suffered minor injuries in camp".

 

RUNNING BACKS ARE EASILY REPLACED

 

You don't NEED a first round RB to compete in the NFL.

[Kelly the Dog]

There were teams that saw the Spiller pick and assumed the Bills would be willing to deal Lynch on draft day. That hardly means "he was available" as those teams were rebuffed. The calls were not returned. Nix and Gailey even stated publicly that they planned to use all 3 backs. But, when push came to shove, there came a day when Nix answered his phone and just replied, "OK, we'll take it" to the Seahawks offer. The Seahawks were blown away frankly by the lack of communication followed by the brevity of the (non-) negotiation. I think, Kelly, that you can put the rest together for yourself easily enough.

John Schneider called the Bills around draft time and was told he was not available. When the lockout lifted he called them every week for about nine weeks until they agreed to the deal. Schneider's quote was "I kept bugging the crap out of them." If he wasn't available they would have told him that during the season too. But they didn't. They held out for a better deal, and when they decided they weren't going to get a better deal and he wasn't going to help the team they dealt him. They didn't have to, they wanted to. You don't get the best deal when you announce to the league and start calling teams asking what they would give for a troubled player. You get nothing for that.

 

Enough with the "it was a justifiable pick because the two legit starting NFL RB's already on the roster suffered minor injuries in camp".

 

RUNNING BACKS ARE EASILY REPLACED

 

You don't NEED a first round RB to compete in the NFL.

 

I never said that and never would. That had nothing obviously to do with the pick. Those injuries happened months later. I was not at all justifying the pick because of the injuries, i was listing what happened. I said I may not have taken him. I said he was the top player available. I said he was a breakaway threat on a team that had no speed or stars. That is the justification for the pick. You really have a lot of trouble with reading comprehension, huh.

[BADOLBILZ]

John Schneider called the Bills around draft time and was told he was not available. When the lockout lifted he called them every week for about nine weeks until they agreed to the deal. Schneider's quote was "I kept bugging the crap out of them." If he wasn't available they would have told him that during the season too. But they didn't. They held out for a better deal, and when they decided they weren't going to get a better deal and he wasn't going to help the team they dealt him. They didn't have to, they wanted to. You don't get the best deal when you announce to the league and start calling teams asking what they would give for a troubled player. You get nothing for that.

 

 

 

I never said that and never would. That had nothing obviously to do with the pick. Those injuries happened months later. I was not at all justifying the pick because of the injuries, i was listing what happened. I said I may not have taken him. I said he was the top player available. I said he was a breakaway threat on a team that had no speed or stars. That is the justification for the pick. You really have a lot of trouble with reading comprehension, huh.

 

Kelly, I realize you aren't really saying ANYTHING. You are just sayyying. I don't appreciate your bickering, love of semantics and general talk-a-lot to say nothing approach to debate.

 

I remember you badgering the hell out of Tim Graham in an online chat about some meaningless thing you were hung up on. What is up with the nonsense? Cut to the chase. Do you even have a point or do you just want to always play devils advocate?

 

Seems to me you are just utterly confused by why the Bills keep losing year after year. It's not that complicated.

[Bufcomments]

Here's a thought. Maybe CJ was drafted to be Fred's replacement?

 

Common sense huh? Spiller gonna be a great back. I don't see anything wrong with Fred getting 20 carries and CJ 10-12 a game next yr . Maybe this will force the Bills to be a running team, something that would help out Fitz.

[PDaDdy]

Jay Glazer reported that Buffalo was not listening to offer before Lynch was traded before the 2010 trade deadline.

 

Glazer per PFT re: Lynch

 

There was no long drawn out process for trading ML last year. And while I'm sure some will attack Glazer, this goes in-line with the Bills and their commitment to holding everything close to the vest. Peter King reported that the Bills were a "black hole of information" before the 2011 Draft.

 

I think we can insert that clip from Billy Madison again.

 

Those statements aren't inconsistent with their desire to get rid of Lynch. Basically it's all after the fact conjecture from source from who knows where that said their team would have given more. Trading away Lynch before the draft would have increased the likelihood that people would peg the Bills for drafting a RB allowing other teams to potentially move up for him. Not entertaining these supposed offers allowed them to keep it close to the vest as you say they like to do and allowed them covertly to get their guy and get rid of Lynch as they intended to do all along.

 

Here's a thought. Maybe CJ was drafted to be Fred's replacement?

 

Common sense huh? Spiller gonna be a great back. I don't see anything wrong with Fred getting 20 carries and CJ 10-12 a game next yr . Maybe this will force the Bills to be a running team, something that would help out Fitz.

 

I think we should look at it more in terms of "touches" including the receptions. Both have been utilized in the passing game very heavily depending on the game plan. Fred is going to be 31 next years so I would say 20 touches for Fred and 20 for Spiller. Fred has been playing FOOTBALL that long. Although not all of it in the NFL they are still footballs years and take their toll.

[Bufcomments]

Those statements aren't inconsistent with their desire to get rid of Lynch. Basically it's all after the fact conjecture from source from who knows where that said their team would have given more. Trading away Lynch before the draft would have increased the likelihood that people would peg the Bills for drafting a RB allowing other teams to potentially move up for him. Not entertaining these supposed offers allowed them to keep it close to the vest as you say they like to do and allowed them covertly to get their guy and get rid of Lynch as they intended to do all along.

 

 

 

I think we should look at it more in terms of "touches" including the receptions. Both have been utilized in the passing game very heavily depending on the game plan. Fred is going to be 31 next years so I would say 20 touches for Fred and 20 for Spiller. Fred has been playing FOOTBALL that long. Although not all of it in the NFL they are still footballs years and take their toll.

 

 

 

Judging what we have seen from Chan he is going to throw it more than run it, we have seen it all yr. With Fred and CJ are healthy the Bills are running team more they are a passing team IMO. They have both run threw some nice holes even with backup OLineman playing. I think one of the things Chan should do is fashion the Offense around CJ and Fred and not depend on Fitz so much.

 

Freddie has to get at least 20 carries to get into a groove and for Fitz to be effective. But this is nice problem to have, 2 quality backs. I think the best way to use CJ is to give him his carries in the 3rd and 4th quarters when the D has worn down a bit and the chances for breaking a big gainer increase after begin worn down by Fred.

[Kelly the Dog]

Kelly, I realize you aren't really saying ANYTHING. You are just sayyying. I don't appreciate your bickering, love of semantics and general talk-a-lot to say nothing approach to debate.

 

I remember you badgering the hell out of Tim Graham in an online chat about some meaningless thing you were hung up on. What is up with the nonsense? Cut to the chase. Do you even have a point or do you just want to always play devils advocate?

 

Seems to me you are just utterly confused by why the Bills keep losing year after year. It's not that complicated.

Sorry, dickhead. I have never once been on an online chat with Tim Graham, or anyone. I have never done it. Not once. So please be wrong again.

 

I said the Bills keep losing every year because they do not draft well and do not sign the right players and do not hire the right coaches. That is what I said. Do you want to argue with that?