CJ Spiller

[Webster Guy]

He's playing faster, less hesitant. Our oLine can run block pretty well, especially against the Indy/Denver type defenses that have speed ends.

 

CJ is still learning, and I think his focus going into next year should be to minimize those negative yard plays. If the hole isn't there, hit it low and hard and take the zero gain, but don't put us in 2nd down and 14 or 3rd down and 12's because we struggle with the long 3rd down conversions. Freddy is the master of this, and he can learn from watching him too.

 

Spiller seems to be getting a little more slippery each week with regard to breaking tackles, I hope it keeps up. We have a solid backfield right now and I like Choice too, although he got smoked twice today in pass protection.

[reddogblitz]

I'm going do some craw fishing on Spiller. I had been dogging him for the last 2 years. I was teetering on naming him an out and out bust, I admit it. But now he looks like he may have game after all. You go CJ!

 

If the OLine can open him up a little hole to hit he's awesome. Fred doesn't need a hole, but CJ does and it looks like our OLine even in it's depleted state is now able to do that.

Edited December 25, 2011 by reddogblitz

[DaveinElma]

He was a luxury pick genius.

 

 

 

Come on! JPP or Pouncey wouldn't have been better picks!

 

I dont recall any Bills fans clamoring for either of those players in 2010. All the talk was Bulaga, Anthony Davis, and Dan Williams.

[CardinalScotts]

Too bad we've been blacked out last 3 home games. It would have been nice to see Spiller's progress. So which running back is trade bait now?

 

go to the games

[BADOLBILZ]

Great players are never luxury picks. For all those who said that CJ was a luxury pick, I recall Jackson and Lynch being injured in the first preseason game within 10 snaps of each other and being unavailable for game one. You never ever have enough talent at any position unless that season ends in a Super Bowl victory, and that relies on hindsight. Players get injured all the time and every SB champ has a platoon of backups that came up huge en route to the diamond rings.

 

Well, unfortunately for you the last 12 years have proven you dead wrong.

 

The Bills have had four different 1,000 yard rushers in that span. And of course that doesn't count CJ. They have drafted 3 RB's in the first round and one in the second round. At no time in that 12 years of failure have they had serious depth issues at RB. The preseason you are talking about..........that team ended up 4-12 despite all that 'saving" depth. You CAN waste too many top picks on a RB. But I guess a great punter wouldn't be s luxury pick, right?

[BADOLBILZ]

John, I see where you are coming from. You are against the pick, but still cheer for the player. And that's fair.

 

But please consider that Spiller was the highest rated talent on the board, by far, when we picked. To sit in hindsight and expect the Bills to reach for need, is asking that the new administration start with a very Whitner-esque pick. I think everyone in the FO was sick of the Bills out-smarting themselves and just went with talent. For a team that was severely lacking talent, it's hard to fault them. I dont expect you to change your opinion on the pick, and I dont disagree with you either, but it's not like the FO is completely inept.

 

The good news is, the pick is working out as Spiller develops and we continue to fill holes in the offseason.

 

Well, if you have RB's rated at the top of your draft board then you either have a championship team that just needs a final piece to get over the hump or you are probably barking up the wrong tree.

 

I've said it many times, when Spiller was picked the reigning rushing champs were Chris Johnson and Steven Jackson, who both played for bad teams. How much impact does Adrian Peterson have on the wins and losses in Minnesota? RB's don't win you games in the NFL.

 

You want a running game to delight your 90 year old owner? Just hire Alex Gibbs to teach your lineman to cut block, draft an Arian Foster at the end of the draft and voila!

 

Or easier yet, just keep your first round RB (Lynch) and let him fight for carries with the very good Fred Jackson. The Spiller pick was just dumb. If you don't think so, consider this.....if he rushes for 2,000 yards in a season.....could that team could STILL go 2-14 (yes) and would the Bills likely let him walk when his rookie contract expires because RB's are just so, so easy to replace (also, yes).

[Kelly the Dog]

Well, unfortunately for you the last 12 years have proven you dead wrong.

 

The Bills have had four different 1,000 yard rushers in that span. And of course that doesn't count CJ. They have drafted 3 RB's in the first round and one in the second round. At no time in that 12 years of failure have they had serious depth issues at RB. The preseason you are talking about..........that team ended up 4-12 despite all that 'saving" depth. You CAN waste too many top picks on a RB. But I guess a great punter wouldn't be s luxury pick, right?

In those same 12 years, the Indianapolis Colts have drafted a RB #1 the same three times.

 

In those same 12 years the New Orleans Saints have drafted a RB # 1 FOUR times.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Kelly the Dog

[BillsVet]

In those same 12 years, the Indianapolis Colts have drafted a RB #1 the same three times.

 

In those same 12 years the New Orleans Saints have drafted a RB # 1 FOUR times.

 

How in goodness is this an apt comparison? SB contenders similar to the Bills?

[BADOLBILZ]

In those same 12 years, the Indianapolis Colts have drafted a RB #1 the same three times.

 

In those same 12 years the New Orleans Saints have drafted a RB # 1 FOUR times.

 

If you have a HOF QB in his prime you get a WHOLE LOTTA mulligans. Even those run out though. See the Colts NOW.

 

As Belichick says, you gotta make A LOT of bad decisions to be bad in the NFL. The Bills are in the upper echelon of bad decisions, but they aren't alone.

 

Thanks for the setup about the QB position though. If you want to have sustained success, the best bet is keep taking cracks at that QB positon until you hit it. A great one covers up A LOT of mistakes.

 

Stop me if you've heard this before: The Bills have not selected a QB with their first pick in any draft in the past 51 years.

[Kelly the Dog]

How in goodness is this an apt comparison? SB contenders similar to the Bills?

The thesis, apparently, was you cannot draft RBs in the first round an be a contender because they are two for a penny. That theory is not true. Both of the above teams did it and are consistent winners, and both of them did it at least once before they were contenders.

 

I'm not saying the Bills have drafted well, they haven't and it is blatantly obvious. But their problem has not been the positions, like RB, they have drafted, nor the positions of the #1 picks they have drafted, it has inarguably been the players they have drafted, in all rounds, and at all positions in the last 12 years, as well as the players, and not the positions, they have signed as FA.

[BADOLBILZ]

The thesis, apparently, was you cannot draft RBs in the first round an be a contender because they are two for a penny. That theory is not true. Both of the above teams did it and are consistent winners, and both of them did it at least once before they were contenders.

 

I'm not saying the Bills have drafted well, they haven't and it is blatantly obvious. But their problem has not been the positions, like RB, they have drafted, nor the positions of the #1 picks they have drafted, it has inarguably been the players they have drafted, in all rounds, and at all positions in the last 12 years, as well as the players, and not the positions, they have signed as FA.

 

Oh you don't think the position of the player matters? Really? This Bills team wouldn't be a SB contender with Tom Brady at QB? Or a healthy Brees or Manning? If any person is idiotic enough to not see how important that particular position is after seeing the collapse of the Colts this year..............I don't know, there is no tellin' ya.

[Kelly the Dog]

Oh you don't think the position of the player matters? Really? This Bills team wouldn't be a SB contender with Tom Brady at QB? Or a healthy Brees or Manning? If any person is idiotic enough to not see how important that particular position is after seeing the collapse of the Colts this year..............I don't know, there is no tellin' ya.

No, you didn't understand what I posted at all.

 

The player himself is what matters. It doesn't matter if you find a great QB early in the first round, late in the first like Rodgers, in the second, in the third, in the 6th like Brady, or in FA like Brees, in a trade like Favre. he just has to be good. If JP Losman was picked at the end of the first by the Packers and we picked Aaron Rodgers, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

The position of DE was not the problem with the pick of Aaron Maybin, Aaron Maybin the player was the problem. Good and great players are found everywhere, in every round, off the street, in FA, in trade. You have to pick and sign good players and have them coached by good coaches. Drafting three RBs was not the problem, the problem was the three RBs we drafted and the 60 other players we drafted or signed on the team.

[DocLawless]

The way you hate on Fred is weird. He was having an unbelievable season until he got hurt. Top 5 MVP type season. You don't have to disrespect a very good football player because you want people on TBD to know that you were "right" about your boyfriend CJ.

Yea not to mention that our THIRTY YEAR OLD MVP candidate running back played a solid full season in 2010 while 22 year old spiller missed games. Knew this bs would start if spiller had 1 100 yard game, 1!!!!! Fred carried this team and does it all he blocks, catches and can fight for those tough yards in the trenches. I like spiller, think he is pretty good but don't start hating on our best player fickle bills fans. Fred is a stud for at least 2 more seasons maybe 3. We can use both of them ya know. Its good to have depth

[DocLawless]

In those same 12 years, the Indianapolis Colts have drafted a RB #1 the same three times.

 

In those same 12 years the New Orleans Saints have drafted a RB # 1 FOUR times.

They are playoff caliber teams that didnt already have two legit starting rb's though. They needed a stud rb and had the rest of their roster filled out properly thus why they are playoff teams. We couldn't afford a luxury pick

[Buffalo 66]

If it was up to Chan Gailey he would still be on the bench. He would be cut next year and picked up by a contender who would utilize him properly and he would go on to a successful NFL career.

Fortunately the fates intervened and forced Gailey to use him.

 

Gailey is awful. This is another example of his shortcomings.

[zazie]

No, you didn't understand what I posted at all.

 

The player himself is what matters. It doesn't matter if you find a great QB early in the first round, late in the first like Rodgers, in the second, in the third, in the 6th like Brady, or in FA like Brees, in a trade like Favre. he just has to be good. If JP Losman was picked at the end of the first by the Packers and we picked Aaron Rodgers, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The position of DE was not the problem with the pick of Aaron Maybin, Aaron Maybin the player was the problem. Good and great players are found everywhere, in every round, off the street, in FA, in trade. You have to pick and sign good players and have them coached by good coaches. Drafting three RBs was not the problem, the problem was the three RBs we drafted and the 60 other players we drafted or signed on the team.

Our coaching was so poor then that this is by no means a foregone conclusion. The Bills could easily have coached Rodgers into a non-career. Adna few years on the bench behind Farve, and good coaching, could have resulted in JP being a good qb

[Fixxxer]

I'm going do some craw fishing on Spiller. I had been dogging him for the last 2 years. I was teetering on naming him an out and out bust, I admit it. But now he looks like he may have game after all. You go CJ!

 

If the OLine can open him up a little hole to hit he's awesome. Fred doesn't need a hole, but CJ does and it looks like our OLine even in it's depleted state is now able to do that.

 

Another underappreciated unit. Sans a few shotgun snaps, it was great to see Brown taking live game reps and not miss a beat. You would have to watch film to realy evaluate the player but the fact that the line didn't struggled when two guys went out isn't something to just ignore and say the OL sucks just because.

 

If we could add a premier LT and move Hairston to give Pears a run for his money at RT this line could be fantastic. I would like to see a more frontal running attack for when we face overpowering defenses like the Jets and Phins.

[BADOLBILZ]

No, you didn't understand what I posted at all.

 

The player himself is what matters. It doesn't matter if you find a great QB early in the first round, late in the first like Rodgers, in the second, in the third, in the 6th like Brady, or in FA like Brees, in a trade like Favre. he just has to be good. If JP Losman was picked at the end of the first by the Packers and we picked Aaron Rodgers, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

The position of DE was not the problem with the pick of Aaron Maybin, Aaron Maybin the player was the problem. Good and great players are found everywhere, in every round, off the street, in FA, in trade. You have to pick and sign good players and have them coached by good coaches. Drafting three RBs was not the problem, the problem was the three RBs we drafted and the 60 other players we drafted or signed on the team.

 

Travis Henry, McGahee, Lynch......all workhorse NFL backs. I by no means bought into Spiller as Marshall Faulk part II but I would have been shocked if he didn't at least make a bunch of big plays. Are they not good players? The quality of those backs was NOT the issue.

 

The positions your team is strong at do matter. It's not just a matter of having more relatively "good" players than your opponent. Not nearly that simplistic. It's how you matchup and where and that gets position specific.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Another example of where the Bills aren't built for certain matchups can be found on defense. They have some good to excellent interior defensive lineman that can "put a cork in the bottle" on the interior running game (and they are missing a stud there as well). They've decided to go with heavy sets using 5 defensive lineman on the field. And that worked very well against a Broncos team that was trying to run between the tackles. But, we will see how well that works against New England this week. New England doesn't try to pound it between the tackles, they try to stretch the field horizontally and create space with speed and by countering coverages. The Patriots have gifted TEs that can catch footballs and make plays and a QB that can get them the ball, which can expose a defense that starts linebackers with zero cover skills. I know the Bills beat the Patriots earlier this season, but the matchup is still not a good one.

[Kelly the Dog]

Travis Henry, McGahee, Lynch......all workhorse NFL backs. I by no means bought into Spiller as Marshall Faulk part II but I would have been shocked if he didn't at least make a bunch of big plays. Are they not good players? The quality of those backs was NOT the issue.

 

The positions your team is strong at do matter. It's not just a matter of having more relatively "good" players than your opponent. Not nearly that simplistic. It's how you matchup and where and that gets position specific.

I agree totally with all of that. Would I have drafted all three of those first round RBs in the last 12 years? Probably not. Of course positions you are strong at matters and I never even remotely said it didn't. The only point I was making was it doesn't matter where you get them, and that good teams draft RBs high all the time. The Bills problem has never been the #1 pick at RB, the Bills problem has been all of their picks, all of their signings and all of their coaching for 12 years. If we found more gems and less average players, in any round, we would be a much better team. Our coaching has been horrendous, too.

 

In retrospect, the bigger crime of drafting Lynch, and perhaps Spiller, was NOT recognizing how good Fred Jackson was, although it was probably impossible at the point of Lynch.

 

Personally, I have no problem with the Spiller pick because he was the best player on the board, and he is a breakaway threat, and he helps in the run and pass game, and this team lacked explosive players and star players. I completely understand the other POV that we had bigger needs at other positions, and I wouldn't have minded a different player taken either. There is no black and white answer. Drafts are often about taking the best player though regardless of position. Those are usually the picks that work out the best in the short term, mid term, and long term for your team.

 

The Spiller pick was also about a new regime coming in and changing the culture of the team, and now it seems clear that they wanted Lynch out. I understand that (even though I was a Lynch fan and still am) and ultimately, IMO, that will serve the franchise well over time.

 

The problem, to me, has never been what positions we went after when. Teams often make the biggest mistakes in drafts by picking position instead of player, those are usually where the most reaches occur. Every single pick in every round by every team in every sport is a battle between BPA and BPA at a position of need. Sometimes it's wise to take the position of need over the best player because their talents are comparable. When one guy is rated ahead of another in a non position of need but is clearly a better player (in the evaluators eyes) you take the better player regardless of position. It's the same argument every single time and every team does it the exact same way. Ultimately, however, the team that selects the best players, regardless of position, are the ones that win.

 

I also agree with the above poster that the Bills would likely have screwed Aaron Rodgers up and it's possible that Losman on the Packers in the same history that Rodgers had would have been a much, much better player. Probably not close to Rodgers though, but it's an unknowable.