Dawgg Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 personnel decisions based on "bean counting".. remember chuck knox?? do you know why he left??? THE BEAN COUNTERS!.. he became agitated with the constraints put on him in conjunction with the personnel dept. How were draft-day decisions based on bean counting when the draft system is slotted? There's no denying that this franchise is cheap. But there are other cheap franchises out there too – the key difference is that they make better personnel decision. The root cause of the Bills' failures has not been frugality, it has been boneheaded personnel decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwight in philly Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 How were draft-day decisions based on bean counting when the draft system is slotted? There's no denying that this franchise is cheap. But there are other cheap franchises out there too – the key difference is that they make better personnel decision. The root cause of the Bills' failures has not been frugality, it has been boneheaded personnel decisions. sure, the draft blunders were not because of the "bean counters", but letting "personnel" people leave i e : polian, butler, after saban and knox, was because of the frustration each experienced with dealing with the littman's and co. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I would agree except for the use of the term 'crackpot'. But don't you agree that generally those types of theories exist only because the conventional explanation is lacking in some respect? How do we explain that an organization, in a profession where the rules are designed to enhance competition, consistently under-performs its peers for over a decade? Defying the laws of probability in relation to the odds of success. The answer must be the organization is not seeking the same objectives as those the rules seek to support. In this case winning a championship on the field of play or at least competing for one. The bottom line is results. And I'm hard pressed to believe that this organization regards winning as any kind of primary objective. And the one constant through the entire era of ineptitude on the field has been Wilson/Overdorf/Littman. Whoever the GM is they'll be subject to the same constraints and oversight so I cannot see why anyone would expect significantly different results regardless of who held the position. I just think the situation, in general, is FAR too complex to pin on a few individuals. We're talking about people here, a lot of people. From players, to agents, to publicists, to accountants, to scouts, to managers, personnel experts, coaches, GM's, trainers, doctors, PARENTS...it's a lot of people. As for why Buffalo has had such a perfect storm of incompatible personalities for sooooo long...I think we're truly destined to never quite know. But trying to force an answer, or determine a scapegoat is like resorting to the flying spaghetti monster to find answers to the unknown. It might bring you comfort and solace to have a proverbial whipping boy, but it doesn't change the fact that we don't know ****. The Minnesota Timberwolves haven't sniffed the NBA playoffs since 2004. Do you know how incredibly easy it is to make the playoffs in the NBA?? Over in the MLB, FIVE teams have playoff droughts that exceed The Bills': Baltimore (14), Toronto (18), Pirates (19), KC Royals (26), Washington Nationals (30). So to say that this type of ineptitude is unprecedented is categorically false. Assuming Detroit makes the playoffs this year, yes we will sit atop the dubious throne of longest ever NFL drought, but other teams in other leagues have gone just as long, some even longer, and all for varying reasons. Sometimes **** just happens. One could make the case that the Patriots* 2000-present have been one of the most consistently dominant sports franchises of the modern era. How's that for a constant? This is the classic case of "correlation does NOT equal causation." In this instance, folks keep gravitating toward the correlation between the rooted FO personnel and our decade of mediocrity. It's A possibility, but it's not THE lone answer, and to assume so implies tunnel vision or an agenda. Sometimes **** just happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 How were draft-day decisions based on bean counting when the draft system is slotted? There's no denying that this franchise is cheap. But there are other cheap franchises out there too – the key difference is that they make better personnel decision. The root cause of the Bills' failures has not been frugality, it has been boneheaded personnel decisions. One feeds off the other. If you don't need to fill holes you create on your own, then you can get a better yield from the 8 draft picks. But when you fail to sign a decent player, you limit your options on draft day because your priority is now to replace the perfectly decent player you didn't retain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Over in the MLB, FIVE teams have playoff droughts that exceed The Bills': Baltimore (14), Toronto (18), Pirates (19), KC Royals (26), Washington Nationals (30). I wouldn't compare MLB, though three of those teams have been pretty bad for most of that time. The margin between not making the playoffs and making them is pretty slim, and I hesitate to say that a team that makes the playoffs from the weakest division is ever as good as the third-best team in the AL East. I'm not just saying this because I'm a Jays fan, even though I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 As I look at our FA list for this year, we're less than a handful of internal signings away from being able to bring some talent through FA and the draft and have some honest to God depth on this team. 2012 will be the year of the upswing. 2013 will be the year when we finally see some traction. And if we continue on the same trajectory as we've been on the last two years, 2014 and beyond could be the most stable years we've seen in a LONG LONG time. To blow the whole thing up would be a monumental mistake. I agree with you but I doubt you will find much support amidst the lynch mob that is TSW. Nix moving aside for Whaley would make sense, as would a makeover of the Defensive staff, but anything beyond that would be taking a step backward yet again. This year has been disappointing but not the casue for panic or proof posiitve of the same old, same old as some here clearly believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbillsfan Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Well Nix did say he had nothing to do about the decision about trading Evans and that came from Overdorff. That seems to me to be blatant bean counting making personel decisions. Nix never said that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 A shakeup with this organization is like the game of boggle, the same 16 people bounced around doing different things. The only thing it ends up spelling is "losing" in a different way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Nix never said that Don't spoil people's conspiracy fantasies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Probably changing the stationary letter head to be more aggressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I wouldn't compare MLB, though three of those teams have been pretty bad for most of that time. The margin between not making the playoffs and making them is pretty slim, and I hesitate to say that a team that makes the playoffs from the weakest division is ever as good as the third-best team in the AL East. I'm not just saying this because I'm a Jays fan, even though I am. Precisely why I brought up the Patriots* 2000-present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 One feeds off the other. If you don't need to fill holes you create on your own, then you can get a better yield from the 8 draft picks. But when you fail to sign a decent player, you limit your options on draft day because your priority is now to replace the perfectly decent player you didn't retain. Drafting 5 running backs in the first round is what has set this franchise back. If we had stuck with McGahee, other first round picks could have been used on the DL and OL. But no, we have the revolving door of 1st round RB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Where's there's smoke, there's usually fire: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/21/tebowmania-cant-lift-a-buffalo-blackout/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheddar's Dad Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 "They were behind the cutting of Langston Walker even though he would have been a serviceable backup." Walker was working on a $43,000.000 contract. There is no team in this or any other league that I know of that would pay any player that kind of money to be a back up. It is obvious to me that many who post here have never been in the position of having to run a household or any other enterprise where decisions have to be made regarding how to allocate your budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Where's there's smoke, there's usually fire: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/21/tebowmania-cant-lift-a-buffalo-blackout/ How is this even remotely relevant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 How is this even remotely relevant? I read it as the money guys are on the hot seat. Though coach Chan Gailey and G.M. Buddy Nix aren’t believed to be on the hot seat, Wilson could decide that bigger names are needed, both to fill seats and to increase the chances of the team making it back to the playoffs. Taking off the handcuffs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Does a "new" GM mean a new coach? Levy and Brandon were made GM, and both Modrak and Guy kept their jobs. How Modrak survived working for 3 GM's is beyond me, but it wouldn't surprise me if Whaley is made GM and Gailey stays around for another year. Remember, it was RW who fired DJ, not Brandon the GM at the time. Most teams' GM fire the HC. Walker was working on a $43,000.000 contract. There is no team in this or any other league that I know of that would pay any player that kind of money to be a back up. It is obvious to me that many who post here have never been in the position of having to run a household or any other enterprise where decisions have to be made regarding how to allocate your budget. Walker signed a 5 year 25M dollar deal in March 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Walker was working on a $43,000.000 contract. There is no team in this or any other league that I know of that would pay any player that kind of money to be a back up. It is obvious to me that many who post here have never been in the position of having to run a household or any other enterprise where decisions have to be made regarding how to allocate your budget. If Walker had stayed he would have been the starting RT under Fewell, Jauron only cut him because he said Walker couldn't get to the line fast enough when they ran the "no huddle" offense. Something the bills scrapped after 2 weeks. Kirk Chambers stunk worse then Walker ever did. Anyway, Jauron was a moron, cutting both his starting LG and RT before the season and not replacing Walker with a decent talent. Don't forget he also fired his OC two weeks before the season started. Still, that moron did better then Gailey has so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) I read it as the money guys are on the hot seat. That would assume the money guys are in charge of a.) creating an inferior product b.) selling that inferior product c.) marketing a specific peripheral of this inferior product (in this case the game experience) and d.) the inconvenience of Christmas. I mean, greater leaps have been made at TSW, that's for sure. And I'll never know why I continue to allow myself be baffled, but honestly... Edited December 21, 2011 by The Big Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) How is this even remotely relevant? When multiple people in the national media start alluding to a possible shakeup, more often than not it happens. Historically, they've been more wired in than local media (on average), I think partly because they have connections with the league office. The lowest attendance in a decade 2001 (right after paying a QB a lot of money who then went belly up) plus a potential 9-game losing streak is the sort of thing that leads to people being forced out. Speaking for myself, I strongly suspect that the Bills' masthead will look different come February 1. Edited December 21, 2011 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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