Is Fitz really that bad?

[billsfan in n.h]

depends on what the meaning of bad is

[CodeMonkey]

Career:
P. Manning:        TD - 399  INT - 198  Rating - 94.9
T. Brady:          TD - 296  INT - 114  Rating - 96.4
K. Orton:          TD - 79   INT - 55   Rating - 79.7
J.P. Losman:       TD - 33   INT - 34   Rating - 75.6
T. Edwards:        TD - 26   INT - 30   Rating - 75.4

R. Fitzpatrick:    TD - 66   INT - 61   Rating - 75.3

 

So yeah, at least statistically speaking he is that bad.

[Ray]

No he is not that bad. He will throw for more yards in two years than any other QB in Bills history except for Jim Kelly. He has just had a really bad San Diego game and a very bad two quarters in the Dolphins game that are very much in everyone's mind right now. When everything is considered and you can objectively look back on things you will realize that when he was Offensive Player of the AFC for a month he had weapons to work with and that likely has a lot more to do with things than anything. I agree he needs to work on his accuracy at times and accuracy with the deep ball.....he can obviously throw the deep ball as he has many times and many times successfully. I hope the Bills reassess things and realize what his strengths are in terms of leadership, intelligence, sizing up defenses but also realize making him constantly run 4-5 WR sets likie Tom Brady is not a formula of success for this team. He can be a "good" QB and has actually played well a lot of the time. If he fails with a full compliment of WRs and RBs then you have your answer.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Fitz has stubby fingers like Lisa Simpson

 

This is one of the more perceptive comments I've seen.

 

Fitz does have small hands for an NFL QB. He makes it work when the weather is warm and the ball is dry. I think he struggles when the ball is wet esp. if it's wet and cold.

 

He reminds me (don't overreact peeps) a bit of Kurt Warner after he injured his finger. He looked like he sucked in StL and got ridden out of town on a rail. He didn't look hot with the Giants either.

Then he moved to 'Zona and lit the place up.

 

Part of the thing was Warner started wearing gloves. I do wish Fitz would try this. I think the glove would give him the little better grip on the ball that he needs in cold, wet weather.

 

Either that, or we should cut Fitz and let 'Zona pick him up.

 

PS the other thing is that Fitz needs to hit the weights hard in the off-season and figure out how to keep it up during the season. Looking at Fitz, then looking at a top QB it's pretty obvious that the muscle ratio is not in Fitz favor.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Hopeful

[sllib olaffub]

This is how I judge a QB: There are certain passes every NFL QB needs to be able to make. After all, he is at the highest level of the profession; so, if a player is anywhere within ten yards of a QB, the QB should be able to pass the ball to a catchable area. Passes in the ten yard range that are hitting the ground, or too high to catch, or going in the opposite direction of a reciever - those kinds of things might happen to any QB once in a blue moon, when the ball slips or something. But, with Trent Edwards, and now with Fitz, it happens FREQUENTLY that an OPEN reciever - one that isn't 30 yards or more downfield - is missed because of poor passing.

 

Guys like Rodgers, Rothlesburger, Rivers, Mannings - the good QB's don't miss passes like that. For an offense to function you've got to be able to count on the QB getting the ball to where it needs to go. Fitz CANNOT DO THAT Consistently. Consistency is the key. Sure, some games he has a good completion %, but still, even at his best of times he is inaccurate, and his worst of times he is unsurmountable by himself.

 

When your QB loses the game for you - we're not even talking about trying to win it, or overcome obstacles - we're talking he misses open recievers left and right and makes terrible judgements, then it is time to replace him.

At the very least - YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE A QB IN THE WINGS if he falters next year. Having Fitz as the only option is the same as not even trying.

Edited December 21, 2011 by sllib olaffub

[sllib olaffub]

No he is not that bad. He will throw for more yards in two years than any other QB in Bills history except for Jim Kelly. He has just had a really bad San Diego game and a very bad two quarters in the Dolphins game that are very much in everyone's mind right now. When everything is considered and you can objectively look back on things you will realize that when he was Offensive Player of the AFC for a month he had weapons to work with and that likely has a lot more to do with things than anything. I agree he needs to work on his accuracy at times and accuracy with the deep ball.....he can obviously throw the deep ball as he has many times and many times successfully. I hope the Bills reassess things and realize what his strengths are in terms of leadership, intelligence, sizing up defenses but also realize making him constantly run 4-5 WR sets likie Tom Brady is not a formula of success for this team. He can be a "good" QB and has actually played well a lot of the time. If he fails with a full compliment of WRs and RBs then you have your answer.

 

Trouble is, given what we have seen, you can't wait until the season has started and we NEED a QB to try to find one. You've got to be proactive with the most important position on a Football team. This year's draft is the best opportunity for a starting QB since the Rivers/Rothlisberger draft. The time is now.

[Toolbox]

Fitz is 12th in yards this season. So, if we extend the OP's logic, there are 11 other QB's that are worthy of comparison to Jim Kelly, including Joe Flacco and Cam Newton.

 

And i'm reasonably certain that "good journeyman qb" is an oxymoronic phrase. I realize true statistics and comparison to contemporary peers makes it impossible for us to morph our wishes into delusional reality, but it still may prove a useful exercise:

 

Fitz has played double-digit games the past 4 seasons (including this one):

 

2011 Season: 20th QB Rating and 1st with 19 interceptions (14 games)

 

2010 Season: 22nd QB Rating (13 games)

 

2009 Season: 26th QB Rating (10 games)

 

2008 Season: 31st QB Rating (13 games)

 

I can hazard a guess that his 2008 performance is why Cincinnati let him go. Most teams in the NFL seem to base personnel decisions on empirical/video evidence. Lucky for Fitz, our beloved bills are not logic slaves.

 

I don't think it's justifiable to attribute his usual less than mediocre play this season on a lack of weapons (and, incidentally, nobody without the last name of Chandler calls Scott Chandler a weapon). Last year Fitz was given the opportunity to be inaccurate with Lee and Stevie and Fred was along for the ride. Quarterbacks make weapons out of receivers; not the other way around.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Toolbox

[Hapless Bills Fan]

depends on what the meaning of bad is

 

and on what the meaning of "is" is (sorry couldn't resist)

[The Big Cat]

Fred Jackson is THAT GOOD.

[NewEra]

1324478114[/url]' post='2341921']

No he is not that bad. He will throw for more yards in two years than any other QB in Bills history except for Jim Kelly. He has just had a really bad San Diego game and a very bad two quarters in the Dolphins game that are very much in everyone's mind right now. When everything is considered and you can objectively look back on things you will realize that when he was Offensive Player of the AFC for a month he had weapons to work with and that likely has a lot more to do with things than anything. I agree he needs to work on his accuracy at times and accuracy with the deep ball.....he can obviously throw the deep ball as he has many times and many times successfully. I hope the Bills reassess things and realize what his strengths are in terms of leadership, intelligence, sizing up defenses but also realize making him constantly run 4-5 WR sets likie Tom Brady is not a formula of success for this team. He can be a "good" QB and has actually played well a lot of the time. If he fails with a full compliment of WRs and RBs then you have your answer.

 

Stats.....don't......mean......jack!!! He's already has 496 attempts. Kelly never had more than 470. There's 2 games left!!!! He averages 35 throws a game. Get real man. He's only had a bad SD game and 2 bad qtrs vs the dolphins??? DO YOU ACTUALLY WATCH THE GAMES?? You can objectively look back and say, when the nfl had no idea what kind of offense fitz ran and didn't know how to defense it, he was nfl player of the month. Since they figured it out, he's one of the worst qbs in the nfl. One can say that tyler thigpen looked like a good qb with chan and the chiefs. His STATS. We're awesome. Yeah, because stats matter. During this slide, fitz has CONSISTANTLY failed on 3rd down passing when the game was still winnable. His deep passes are amount the leagues worst. His decision making, which was his best trait, is now questionable. He's constantly throwing the ball into double and triple coverage and getting picked. How can you say he's had 6 bad qtrs????? I really don't understand what some people are watching....

 

 

 

In before: "he doesn't have anyone to throw too". Save it for someone who cares.

[CodeMonkey]

Stats.....don't......mean......jack!!! He's already has 496 attempts. Kelly never had more than 470. There's 2 games left!!!! He averages 35 throws a game. Get real man. He's only had a bad SD game and 2 bad qtrs vs the dolphins??? DO YOU ACTUALLY WATCH THE GAMES?? You can objectively look back and say, when the nfl had no idea what kind of offense fitz ran and didn't know how to defense it, he was nfl player of the month. Since they figured it out, he's one of the worst qbs in the nfl. One can say that tyler thigpen looked like a good qb with chan and the chiefs. His STATS. We're awesome. Yeah, because stats matter. During this slide, fitz has CONSISTANTLY failed on 3rd down passing when the game was still winnable. His deep passes are amount the leagues worst. His decision making, which was his best trait, is now questionable. He's constantly throwing the ball into double and triple coverage and getting picked. How can you say he's had 6 bad qtrs????? I really don't understand what some people are watching....

 

 

 

In before: "he doesn't have anyone to throw too". Save it for someone who cares.

Not true, he has Stevie Johnson, according to a lot of people here a true honest to God #1 WR deserving of a big contract. Remember? /sarcasm

Edited December 21, 2011 by CodeMonkey

[RuntheDamnBall]

Where's the "deep voice" guy?

[Ray]

Geez, I am shocked that people have taken comments out of context. When I write he is not that bad/as bad as many want to make him out to be I am saying look at the league as a whole, the QBs out there and everything he has done this season with the very limited talent around him. Very limited talent. A QB does not suck and is not horrible/horrific if they are throwing for 3600+ yards for a team with a lousy defense and lousy WRs in general. D Jones, Hagan, R Martin, a converted QB, Clauseen, Lee Smith etc.....do you really think that is a recipe for success? All I am saying is that the guy is an average NFL QB and when he had the guys early in the year around him with talent/Freddie, Chandler was healthy he performed a lot better.

If we had the opportunity to take Luck (won't happen), or RG III I say take them. But the idea that Matt Cassell, Kyle Orton, Matt Sanchez, Joe Flacco, Alex Smith, etc....would do soooo much better with this team is just ridiculous.

The point is that sooo many over react on this board and want to ignore certain facts. Fitz has had 6 lousy quarters out of 8 in the last two games....no question. But he played well in the 2nd Jets game and threw the ball very well in that game. Had 7-8 very good games early in the year. He also was not the reason we lost to Dallas, to the Titans etc...

2nd half of the year he has been bad but that is when the supporting cast was horrible too so look at the totality of the situation

[clayboy54]

Within all of the Fitz dialog, nowhere have I seen written that his rib injury might be contributing to his poor play.

 

If you look at the Miami tape from last week, on several occasions Fitz could be seen clutching his ribs after a hit. This is a painful injury that has not been given any time off to heal. Fitz is not such a great QB with arm strength that can overcome the limitation of the lack of upper body movement caused by a painful rib injury. Since the injury, his accuracy has been poor and he routinely misses open receivers by quite a bit. This would be typical of somebody without their full range of throwing motion.

 

My feeling is that there is way more to this rib injury than we are led to believe. Just a thought...

[Geno Smith's Arm]

Within all of the Fitz dialog, nowhere have I seen written that his rib injury might be contributing to his poor play.

 

If you look at the Miami tape from last week, on several occasions Fitz could be seen clutching his ribs after a hit. This is a painful injury that has not been given any time off to heal. Fitz is not such a great QB with arm strength that can overcome the limitation of the lack of upper body movement caused by a painful rib injury. Since the injury, his accuracy has been poor and he routinely misses open receivers by quite a bit. This would be typical of somebody without their full range of throwing motion.

 

My feeling is that there is way more to this rib injury than we are led to believe. Just a thought...

 

I hope you are right...but I don't believe it.

 

If that's the case, then now that they are out of contention for the playoffs, shouldn't they start Thigpen? Don't you think NOW would be a great time for the organization to save some face? The management looks inept right now because they gave an unproven QB a large contract, and I think any excuse would welcomed by them.

 

Like I said though, I hope you are right.

[KOKBILLS]

I know a lot of people are down on the Bills (including me), and people have been questioning Fitz's play since his contract extension. Granted, the team has sucked since the Toronto game. I don't know if Fitz has been playing hurt since getting nailed by London Fletcher. IMO, Fitz is a good QB and needs more weapons around him. Fred Jackson is 50% of the offense. The other legitmate weapons Fitz has are Stevie Johnson & Scott Chandler. If you compare the stats of Jim Kelly's 3 best years with Buffalo, with Fitz stats of this year, Fitz is not that far off. It's possible Fitz could beat Kelly's highest yards in a season. Right now, Fitz is at 3,329, with 2 games to go. Kelly had 3,844 in 1991, with a much better Bills offense.

 

IMO, I think in order for the Bills offense to be successful, they need to draft a good #2 WR (assuming they resign Johnson) and another TE to compliment Chandler. If the Bills could get a good TE combo, like NE has with Hernandez & Gronkowski, along with 2 good WR's & Jackson & Spiller in the backfield, then the Bills will have a successful offense. I think Fitz is a good journeyman QB and should be the starter for the next 2-3 years, while Boss Hogg & Cooter fill the holes on the team, and create depth.

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/jimkelly/2501579/profile

Season Team Passing Rushing Fumbles

G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost

1991 Buffalo Bills 15 15 304 474 64.1 3,844 8.1 33 17 31 227 97.6 20 45 2.3 1 6 0

1986 Buffalo Bills 16 -- 285 480 59.4 3,593 7.5 22 17 43 330 83.3 41 199 4.9 0 -- --

1992 Buffalo Bills 16 16 269 462 58.2 3,457 7.5 23 19 20 145 81.2 31 53 1.7 1 8 4

 

Fitz's stats:

2011 Buffalo Bills 14 14 309 496 62.3 3,329 6.7 22 19 19 132 80.8 48 157 3.3 0 7 2

 

There is SO much wrong and unholy about the comparison between Fitz and Jimbo I can't even comment on the specifics...

 

How dare you Sir...How dare you...

 

Seriously though...I would not even go there...Kelly had a superior arm and a MUCH better supporting cast...I'm not sure I can even explain properly why Kelly was clearly a better QB...But he was...And Fitz can't hold Kelly's jock...Even on one of his better days...Now Fitz and Reich? That's a better comparison IMHO...

[FLFan]

Fitz is neither as "good" as he looked in the first half of the season, or as "bad" as he has looked since. Fitz is not Rogers or Brady or Brees, but with the right offense and some consistency in the players around him, he has shown he can perform very well. Some people want to ignore the injuries on the Bills offense as "excuse making" but you cannot ignore them. They lost 3 of their top 4 receivers going into the year fairly early. They have Brad Smith starting at WR for crying out loud - he was sixth on the depth chart at that position going into the year. They lost their best offensive weapon in Jackson and now Chandler for the last two. Hello! Any QB needs some talent around him, and perhaps more importantly, some consistency in the lineup. The group of receivers he worked hard with in offseason and training camp to develop chemistry and timing are mostly gone.

 

The bigger issue may be the OL. Wood was the glue that held the whole thing together and it is no coincidence that the offense has been completely out of synch ever since he went out. You see missed blocking assignments and other mistakes you just did not see before. The revolving door at LT has not helped and neither is having to play Urbik at center as he was better at RG than his replacement. OL depth should be a major priority this offseason. The lack of execution on the OL and lack of timing with ther receivers are the big reasons for Fitz's drop off in performance in my opinion.

 

Yes, he is not Brady, or Rogers, or Brees and never will be, but even they would be struggling with the issues the Bills are facing on offense. Fitz has shown he can produce at a high level - he did not suddenly lose the skills he does bring halfway through the year. That does not make sense.

 

By the way, one thing to love about this guy - he has never made an excuse for his play although he could come up with many. He takes responsibility and acts like a leader. He is just not getting any help out there.

[SactoBillFan]

He's not that bad. It's the beard thing...

[Toolbox]

Fitz is neither as "good" as he looked in the first half of the season, or as "bad" as he has looked since. Fitz is not Rogers or Brady or Brees, but with the right offense and some consistency in the players around him, he has shown he can perform very well. Some people want to ignore the injuries on the Bills offense as "excuse making" but you cannot ignore them. They lost 3 of their top 4 receivers going into the year fairly early. They have Brad Smith starting at WR for crying out loud - he was sixth on the depth chart at that position going into the year. They lost their best offensive weapon in Jackson and now Chandler for the last two. Hello! Any QB needs some talent around him, and perhaps more importantly, some consistency in the lineup. The group of receivers he worked hard with in offseason and training camp to develop chemistry and timing are mostly gone.

 

The bigger issue may be the OL. Wood was the glue that held the whole thing together and it is no coincidence that the offense has been completely out of synch ever since he went out. You see missed blocking assignments and other mistakes you just did not see before. The revolving door at LT has not helped and neither is having to play Urbik at center as he was better at RG than his replacement. OL depth should be a major priority this offseason. The lack of execution on the OL and lack of timing with ther receivers are the big reasons for Fitz's drop off in performance in my opinion.

 

Yes, he is not Brady, or Rogers, or Brees and never will be, but even they would be struggling with the issues the Bills are facing on offense. Fitz has shown he can produce at a high level - he did not suddenly lose the skills he does bring halfway through the year. That does not make sense.

 

By the way, one thing to love about this guy - he has never made an excuse for his play although he could come up with many. He takes responsibility and acts like a leader. He is just not getting any help out there.

 

 

50 games in the NFL is a large enough sample size to determine if someone is good, average, or bad. Fitz has proven, over the long haul, that is a less than average quarterback. His QB ratings over the year do not lie. His rib was not hurt for 50 straight games, and his "weapons" were not injured throughout either. Of course he has had glimpses of brilliance. So did JP, Trent, Rob Johnson etc.

 

I get increasingly baffled by people who insist his less than average play for the entirety of his career is not attributable to him. If only we all could get the same luxury of no accountability at our jobs.

[cantankerous]

Yes.