Current Roster better for a 4-3 or 3-4?

[Booger]

I have to think that due to the lack of talent at LB and DE the Bills are better fit for a 4-3. I would think with 2 Pro-Bowl type DT's they need to make that switch back and load up on DE's and LB's in the draft.

 

Also, I believe a 4-3 does not put as much pressure on your corners.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Booger

[jjmac]

I have to think that due to the lack of talent at LB and DE the Bills are better fit for a 4-3. I would think with 2 Pro-Bowl type DT's they need to make that switch back and load up on DE's and LB's in the draft.

 

Also, I believe a 4-3 does not put as much pressure on your corners.

 

 

Either way, we will need to pick LBs. Also, if we had good enough corners, the 3-4 would not be an issue. Mario Clark and Charles Romes did OK.

Edited December 20, 2011 by jjmac

[NoSaint]

Honestly - it's a tough spit. You committ to the coordinator before FA or the draft. I think the answer lies with whether a 34 OLB or a 43 DE is staring us in the face. We don't have the marquee, hardest to find player for with scheme to work well.

[VirginiaMike]

I have to think that due to the lack of talent at LB and DE the Bills are better fit for a 4-3. I would think with 2 Pro-Bowl type DT's they need to make that switch back and load up on DE's and LB's in the draft.

 

Also, I believe a 4-3 does not put as much pressure on your corners.

I wholeheartedly agree. I think we have tow very good D-Tackles (Willaims & dareus), butr neither is a prototypical NT. the guys we have plating LB in our 3-4 are really average D-Ends ina 4-3 and poor OLB's in a 3-4. We need help at LB no matter which system we play. This 'Hybrid" we play now is awful. We only play it because we don't have the right personnel for a real 3-4.

 

I think we need less pieces if we go 4-3 than 3-4.

[st. pete gogolak]

It's not a slam dunk but I think it's a 4-3. Your best two players - K. Williams and Dareus - are natural DT's in a 4-3 and would make a potentially dominant twosome in the middle. The guy you drafted to be your NT - Troup - looks like a bust and no great loss if you move to a 4-3. If he can back up at DT, fine. You always look to rotate DL anyway. At DE, Kelsey is serviceable for another year, maybe two. At OLB, he's hopeless. At the other DE, Quinten Couples? If not, give Carrington a year at a 4-3 DE. He's shown flashes. You may have to move D. Edwards as he is best suited to 3-4 end.

 

I agree that LB is a mess one way or the other. If you bring Merriman back, you can certainly bring him back as a situational pass rusher in a 4-3. That may be the proper role for him anyway, in either a 4-3 or a 3-4. Barnett and Sheppard are best suited as inside backers in a 3-4. Can one go outside in a 4-3 and can one play MLB in a 4-3? I'd like to think so but I'm not 100% sure. Either way, you definitely have to go FA to pick up an OLB and spend a high draft pick on a DE (if you go 4-3) or OLB (if you go 3-4).

[Dr. Trooth]

3-4. But they're seriously defiecien either way. They need at least a true (HUGE) NT and two OLBs to be a real 3-4. The Bills have adequate backups at those positions on their rosters

 

To go to a 4-3, they need 4 OLBs including depth, because these backers are smaller and based on speed. They need at least 3 DEs including depth, because Kelsay is the only viable DE for a 4-3... weight in this position 250- 270.

[I hate the Bills !]

we need to play a 4-3 and have 3 stud LB's, to go with our 2 great tackles and we can use Carrington and Dwan as our DE and then draft another DE.

[sllib olaffub]

I was going to start another post - but I didn't think I'd get enough of a response, so I'll voice it here and also add a comment to the original post. As for the two defenses - I think we'd be much better off running a 4-3 unless we happen upon a D.Coordinator who can run a 3-4 excellently. Nolan comes to mind. If that guy were to come in here, he'd assess our roster, tell Nix who to get, and we'd have a top 12 defense his first season, guaranteed, and this discussion would be mute. So, it starts with who you have running your defense. If you're asking personnel wise, what do our guys seem best suited for, or which would be the quickest turn around - I'd say, again, the 4-3 looks like a quicker fix. Still, I'd go for Coordinator first.

 

My other question - I've been thinking about this for the last few weeks. If the Bills were going to just raise Wannstedt to their replacement Coordinator after this season, why wouldn't they have done so already? I think the fact that they haven't says at least one of a few possible things:

 

Either he hasn't committed to being the D-Coordinator, or Nix and Gailey haven't decided that is who they want. If the later were the case, why bring him on? What has he done, really? Can anyone attest to what he has added to this bunch? What are his responsibilities?

 

He has agreed to come on and they want him to - that means they value something more than the chance at winning games, because if he'd of stepped in as D.C. six weeeks ago, we might still be in the hunt (although I doubt it, the point is, if you're really trying to get there, you don't pass on chances to better yourself).

 

It is strange. Would a top tier D.Coordinator like Nolan come on with Wannstedt as an Assistant Coach? That would be intruiging... still there is something odd about that arrangement - any thoughts?

[CBD]

I think for a 34 they have 3 Dlinemen and 2 ILBs, their main need is at both OLB spots. Need 2, maybe 3 players (Depending on your opinion of Edwards/Carrington/Troup).

 

I think for a 43 they have 2 Dlinemen (regardless of Kelsay's play he's getting old and will need a replacement soon) and 1 MLB (Barnett) and no OLBs. Likely need 4 players.

 

Therefore I think they're closer to being at least average at all 7 "front 7" spots in a 34.

 

Either he hasn't committed to being the D-Coordinator, or Nix and Gailey haven't decided that is who they want. If the later were the case, why bring him on? What has he done, really? Can anyone attest to what he has added to this bunch? What are his responsibilities?

I don't know what his responsibilities are, but the defense has been terrible, and he has a hand in it. I wouldn't blame them for not wanting to give him more responsilibity and wouldn't mind if he's also replaced.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Carey Bender

[Turbosrrgood]

I have to think that due to the lack of talent at LB and DE the Bills are better fit for a 4-3. I would think with 2 Pro-Bowl type DT's they need to make that switch back and load up on DE's and LB's in the draft.

 

Also, I believe a 4-3 does not put as much pressure on your corners.

 

3-4, hands down IMO. While KW and Kelsay are arguably more suited to 4-3, the rest of the front 7 fit better into the 3-4 system IMO. Despite my previous statement, KW has proven that he not only can play 3-4, but can play it in pro bowl fashion. Dareus is a big man, and a good one at that, perfectly suited to the 3-4. Merriman if healthy is a purely 3-4 OLB, and Barnett (currently our best LB) has played in a 3-4 his entire career. We also have Edwards, a pure 3-4 defensive end, and Carrington another big DE who can play DE in that scheme.

 

As far as a 4-3 "not putting as much pressure on your corners", I think you are referring to Jauron's tampa 2 scheme. Sure you can stop the pass, at the cost of the run...we've been there. It all comes down to pass rush, regardless of scheme. So far the big hole on our defense is the lack of a pass rush. Other than a possibly washed up Merriman, we don't have anyone that can rush the passer in either scheme.

 

The 3-4 gives you so many tools as a defense, our real problem is that we don't have a DC that knows how to use them...

Edited December 20, 2011 by Turbosrrgood

[st. pete gogolak]

Traditionally, to run a successful 3-4, you need first and foremost, a massive NT to plug up the middle and two athletic "tweeners" who can defend the run and rush the passer from the OLB position. The best thing John Butler ever did was bring in Ted Washington and Bryce Paup to play in Wade Phillips' 3-4. Nobody ran againt Ted Washington. (The only player I ever saw push Washington around was Barrett Robbins of the Raiders and God knows what chemicals he was on that day.) I don't see us having any of those players, with the exception of a vey healthy Merriman. Yes, Williams and Dareus can play NT and Dareus can play DE in a 3-4, but why play your two best defenders out of position? Barnett is a hell of a player. I can't believe that they can't find a spot for him in a 4-3.

 

One thing we agree on. Either 4-3 or 3-4, we simply must improve DRAMATICALLY at OLB to even field a competitive defense.

[....lybob]

I think I could do better with a 4-3

 

Free agency- Cliff Avril

 

Draft

1. Zach Brown

2. Vinny Curry

 

DL Starters Carrington Dareus, Williams, Avril

Back ups Gilbert, Heard , Troup, Curry

 

Starting LBs Barnett, Shepard, Zach Brown

[jcbillsfan]

As long as Daruis and williams are on the team together it is going to very tempting to go 4/3. Not sure Buddy see it that way "football is for big people "

[Hater]

I like a 43 over, 34 yes it gives one less LB for coverage but it gives you one more pass rusher & if you get pressure it makes up it

I think we should play the 43 & totally drop the 34, you can go out & find good pass rusher in the mid to late rounds of the draft LB is a different story

[Chris in Syracuse]

I can't believe how everyone believes that firing our DC will miraculously make our defense so much improved.

The real problem lies within the attempt to abandon a semi successful Tampa 2 (with noted flaws in run defense)

to a pure 34. It is like trying to turn fat Jared (pre subway) into Arnold Schwartzeneggar (sp). It ain't happening overnight.

It could of happened sooner if we got rid of everyone that didn't fit and draft and pay good money for players that did. We decided to build through the draft and run our hybrid 34 43 joke of a defense where we don't have the players to be successful at either. No DC can succeed with this situation (not even Wade Phillips). Until we have a true NT and at least 1 good OLB (I still hold out hope for Merriman) and quality depth we will never be successful. I am not totally against letting Edwards go at seasons end but he will sadly be a martyr to a front office and owner that are willing to let the team go a few more years without winning in the hopes to rebuild a long term foundation for success.

 

Flame away!

[jcbillsfan]

you are not wrong. I feel like this is the offseason they finally get all the pieces in place. I can not imagine tha Buddy goes into next season with kelsy and johnson on the roster at olb's.

[KD in CA]

It's silly to scapegoat anyone. They need better talent across the board to be competitive, the rest is just fan frustration looking for an outlet.

 

What did people really expect from a defense that was horrible a year ago, did nothing in FA except swap an ILB, added four rookies and lost its best player and its best CB to injury. Frankly, given that circumstance, they've played better than I anticipated.

[DanInUticaTampa]

Ridding Edwards wouldn't be satisfying enough. gotta make big changes on that defense other than coaching.

Edited December 20, 2011 by DanInUticaTampa

[reddogblitz]

I wouldn't say he's a scape goat necessarily. But who's idea do you think it was to move Kelsay and Johnson to OLB? Who's idea was it to go 34 43 hybrid? Who's idea is it not blitz when we obviously can't bring pressure on the QB and our DBs can't cover forever? We have some for sure NFL talent on the defense like Byrd, Wilson, Florence, Barnett, Dareus, Kelsay (at DE). Williams and Sheppard seem to be decent and Searcy and Rogers are doing well also. I also believe Leodis can be a player when there is some pass rush and QB can't sit back and take his time to put in the perfect throw. Why are we this bad? Is it on the players? Somewhat probably.

 

When I see other teams go from one of the worst Ds to top half after hiring a decent DC like Houston and Green Bay and Miami and the 49ers did, it leads me to believe it's not only on the players but in large part to their fearless leader.

 

Coach Gailey says the same thing. He says we have good players but it ain't working.

 

I'm hoping Edwards is told to clean out his locker on 1/2/2012.

[BobChalmers]

I can't believe how everyone believes that firing our DC will miraculously make our defense so much improved.

The real problem lies within the attempt to abandon a semi successful Tampa 2 (with noted flaws in run defense)

to a pure 34. It is like trying to turn fat Jared (pre subway) into Arnold Schwartzeneggar (sp). It ain't happening overnight.

It could of happened sooner if we got rid of everyone that didn't fit and draft and pay good money for players that did. We decided to build through the draft and run our hybrid 34 43 joke of a defense where we don't have the players to be successful at either. No DC can succeed with this situation (not even Wade Phillips). Until we have a true NT and at least 1 good OLB (I still hold out hope for Merriman) and quality depth we will never be successful. I am not totally against letting Edwards go at seasons end but he will sadly be a martyr to a front office and owner that are willing to let the team go a few more years without winning in the hopes to rebuild a long term foundation for success.

 

Flame away!

 

No flame - your reasoning is sound.

 

It's hard to tell how much is Edwards, though I am certainly not impressed by the number of time it seems like the players out there are confused about their assignments.

 

It's certainly not ALL on him. Kelsay plus Spencer Johnson at OLB is a really sad joke. I'd be happier to see Johnson back at DL and Kelsay as a backup pass rusher. Bills clearly need 1-2 rookie OLB's and a healthy Merriman and/or a top FA pickup.