RB SITUATION

[robert cohen]

ive been thinking this ever since he went down... FINALLY spiller will get his chance as a full time RB... spiller has been VERY solid.. hes growing every week and knowing how frugal we are, paying a 30 yr old RB 8-10 mil a yr when we are not a contender would be a total waste when we have a guy that THIS regime drafted in the top 10... that money we would spend on freddy needs to go to stevie and another WR.. how many good yrs does freddy have left? especially after coming off a season ending leg injury. i'd be less comcerned if it were a shoulder but its his leg... Ppl will say, he doesnt have the milleage that other RB's his age have been i beg to differ.. its not like he wasnt playing... he played all over the world and had to work HARDER just to get a shot in the nfl... i know he wasnt getting hit by NFL caliber players but he was still getting hit as often... i would hat to lose him, but Spiller was gailey and nix 1st round pick and is showing he is more talented than freddy and i think it was good for spiller watching freddy work his magic earlier this yr.. spiller is a hard worker and didnt act like a primadona saying he should be the starter.. he did whatever the team asked and learned from playing behind freddy. With him as our lead back, and re sign Choice who is a perfect #2 back our RB situation is fine and not a concern.. i hope they play hard ball with freddy cuz as much as he deserves a raise , this is still a business... i own a flarge company, and would not pay a guy HUGE $ if u have a guy waiting in wings especially with the glaring needs we have else where..

 

This would be a very beneficial situation.. freddy is still under contract... if we got a 4th for evans last yr who should major decline in production.. we should easily get a 2nd for freddy... there are alot of teams that are contenders that freddy would fit in perfectly... packers is 1st to come to mind.. the way freddy catches the ball out of backfield he would be the PERFECT rb for them.. i dont know their cap situation but they would be a late 2nd round pick cuz of their record and they have a glaring hole at RB. it makes me sick to even think it.. but the pats traded us Bledsoe , and by trading within division we could probably get even more.. jackson would be lethal there.. again, im not thinking with my heart cuz it would kill me to see freddy shred us twice a yr but this is a business... he is a VERY VALUABLE asset.. we dont have many and the time timing is perfect..

 

I know there are gonna be alot of ppl not liking this idea.. but we are NOT a contender... looks like we may draft in top 8 and may be able to get a real QB, cuz watching fitz miss easy throws make me vomit.. he cant hit a deep ball in his life depended on it and he makes easy throws look hard and never hits guys in stride.. if we can get a Rg3 or Barkley and resign Stevie and have spiller.. that is a dynamic big 3 and with the dough we save on freddy get a guy like vincent jackson or even a meachem.. they are not old and would suit our needs drastically.. our D is not as far away as it looks.. if we go to a 4-3 and use the draft primarily on D we have alot of young building blocks..

Dareus and williams at DT... kelsay is serviceable at DE and draft a pass rusher in 2nd and hopefully another 2nd (via freddy trade) at OLB.. barnett in middle and let the rest of our guys battle in out and other OLB slot.. i think shepp can move outside with ease.. we comes from a LSU D and he was the leader there and is very atheltic.. our secondary could use another good CB.. i hate floyrence. but williams will be our starter for a long time and our safety situation is probably our strongest position with byrd and wilson and searcy looking solid..

 

im eager to hear responses to this thread!

[1billsfan]

Spiller is the future and the future is now.

 

This team should fire Nix and Gailey, do whatever it takes to get into position to draft RG III (2012's 1st, 2nd + 2013 1st, 2nd), then trade Fred Jackson for a 2012 2nd which should be easy to do.

 

Make Whaley the GM and have him hire a new head coach. Perhaps Brian Billick?

 

This team needs a drastic change in direction. They have some really good pieces in place, but prolonging this kind of change will only set this team back another 2 or more years.

[John Cocktosten]

Are you guys kidding me! Have you learned nothing about this season. I'm sure that you guys were the ones starting "I told you so" threads when the Bills were 5-2. Have you noticed what the other Bills outcast RBs are doing around the league. Fj was clearly one of the best RBs in the league this year and you want to get rid of him now because CJ had ONE good game?

 

Btw, this isn't Madden 2012. You're not getting a 2nd rd pick for a 30 year old RB. Do you know how stupid that sounds? Pay Freddy what he deserves and mix Spiller in more. If Gailey would have been spelling FJ more maybe FJ would not have gotten hurt. Ridiculous thread.

[Homey D. Clown]

ive been thinking this ever since he went down... FINALLY spiller will get his chance as a full time RB... spiller has been VERY solid.. hes growing every week and knowing how frugal we are, paying a 30 yr old RB 8-10 mil a yr when we are not a contender would be a total waste when we have a guy that THIS regime drafted in the top 10... that money we would spend on freddy needs to go to stevie and another WR.. how many good yrs does freddy have left? especially after coming off a season ending leg injury. i'd be less comcerned if it were a shoulder but its his leg... Ppl will say, he doesnt have the milleage that other RB's his age have been i beg to differ.. its not like he wasnt playing... he played all over the world and had to work HARDER just to get a shot in the nfl... i know he wasnt getting hit by NFL caliber players but he was still getting hit as often... i would hat to lose him, but Spiller was gailey and nix 1st round pick and is showing he is more talented than freddy and i think it was good for spiller watching freddy work his magic earlier this yr.. spiller is a hard worker and didnt act like a primadona saying he should be the starter.. he did whatever the team asked and learned from playing behind freddy. With him as our lead back, and re sign Choice who is a perfect #2 back our RB situation is fine and not a concern.. i hope they play hard ball with freddy cuz as much as he deserves a raise , this is still a business... i own a flarge company, and would not pay a guy HUGE $ if u have a guy waiting in wings especially with the glaring needs we have else where..

 

This would be a very beneficial situation.. freddy is still under contract... if we got a 4th for evans last yr who should major decline in production.. we should easily get a 2nd for freddy... there are alot of teams that are contenders that freddy would fit in perfectly... packers is 1st to come to mind.. the way freddy catches the ball out of backfield he would be the PERFECT rb for them.. i dont know their cap situation but they would be a late 2nd round pick cuz of their record and they have a glaring hole at RB. it makes me sick to even think it.. but the pats traded us Bledsoe , and by trading within division we could probably get even more.. jackson would be lethal there.. again, im not thinking with my heart cuz it would kill me to see freddy shred us twice a yr but this is a business... he is a VERY VALUABLE asset.. we dont have many and the time timing is perfect..

 

I know there are gonna be alot of ppl not liking this idea.. but we are NOT a contender... looks like we may draft in top 8 and may be able to get a real QB, cuz watching fitz miss easy throws make me vomit.. he cant hit a deep ball in his life depended on it and he makes easy throws look hard and never hits guys in stride.. if we can get a Rg3 or Barkley and resign Stevie and have spiller.. that is a dynamic big 3 and with the dough we save on freddy get a guy like vincent jackson or even a meachem.. they are not old and would suit our needs drastically.. our D is not as far away as it looks.. if we go to a 4-3 and use the draft primarily on D we have alot of young building blocks..

Dareus and williams at DT... kelsay is serviceable at DE and draft a pass rusher in 2nd and hopefully another 2nd (via freddy trade) at OLB.. barnett in middle and let the rest of our guys battle in out and other OLB slot.. i think shepp can move outside with ease.. we comes from a LSU D and he was the leader there and is very atheltic.. our secondary could use another good CB.. i hate floyrence. but williams will be our starter for a long time and our safety situation is probably our strongest position with byrd and wilson and searcy looking solid..

 

im eager to hear responses to this thread!

 

 

It doesn't matter how well CJ performs for this team, there are waaaay too many people just wanting the kid to be a bust around here. I am not one of them. The argument is that he was a luxury pick, which I still find laughable, since we have SO MANY play makers and depth on this team. He can be an every down back, but for some reason people love to make blind assumptions that he can't be. Look at his physical stats, he's bigger and taller than Reggie Bush, He's taller than Thurman was, and weighs within 6lbs of the guy, but yeah, he can't play every down. Give me a break. He and Freddie are the 2 most talented guys on the team, and past Steve Johnson, there is nothing. I hope he stays a Bill, because if the front office runs this guy out of town, you can expect the franchise to unravel exponentially.

[1billsfan]

Are you guys kidding me! Have you learned nothing about this season. I'm sure that you guys were the ones starting "I told you so" threads when the Bills were 5-2. Have you noticed what the other Bills outcast RBs are doing around the league. Fj was clearly one of the best RBs in the league this year and you want to get rid of him now because CJ had ONE good game?

 

Btw, this isn't Madden 2012. You're not getting a 2nd rd pick for a 30 year old RB. Do you know how stupid that sounds? Pay Freddy what he deserves and mix Spiller in more. If Gailey would have been spelling FJ more maybe FJ would not have gotten hurt. Ridiculous thread.

 

The team will need to recoup the draft picks spent on getting high enough in the draft to pick RG III. Spiller is better and younger than Jackson and Jackson will never accept a roll coming in off the bench.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that a team close to the championship who doesn't have decent a RB will give up a 2nd for Jackson.

Edited December 19, 2011 by 1billsfan

[MRM33064]

Are you guys kidding me! Have you learned nothing about this season. I'm sure that you guys were the ones starting "I told you so" threads when the Bills were 5-2. Have you noticed what the other Bills outcast RBs are doing around the league. Fj was clearly one of the best RBs in the league this year and you want to get rid of him now because CJ had ONE good game?

 

Btw, this isn't Madden 2012. You're not getting a 2nd rd pick for a 30 year old RB. Do you know how stupid that sounds? Pay Freddy what he deserves and mix Spiller in more. If Gailey would have been spelling FJ more maybe FJ would not have gotten hurt. Ridiculous thread.

 

 

This, with a little less anger. :-)

 

When Chan mysteriously started moving away from FredEx and more towards Fitz, things went south in a big way. When Fred got hurt, the bottom completely fell out.

 

Fitz couldn't handle shouldering the entire offense, he was much, much better when Fred was the centerpiece.

 

Fred is a good personality, well-liked by the fans, and a leader that has another good couple years left in him. I like that Fred has played with a little chip on his shoulder, and am a little afraid of giving him a big contract for fear of that chip disappearing, but that wouldn't stop me.

[ny33]

As multiple people have said, we wouldn't get enough value back (certainly not a second-round pick) trading Fred Jackson. FJ will stay but, unfortunately for him, won't get the money he has earned. We'll re-sign him next year to a deal for something like two years, $5 million guaranteed $11 million total.

[section122]

The team will need to recoup the draft picks spent on getting high enough in the draft to pick RG III. Spiller is better and younger than Jackson and Jackson will never accept a roll coming in off the bench.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that a team close to the championship who doesn't have decent a RB will give up a 2nd for Jackson.

As it stands now bills have 10th pick they would only need to move up to 6 or 7 to have a legitimate shot at rg3 so they won't have to give up as many picks to move up as you think. I do however disagree with trading Freddy away why take a strength and a position with depth an make that trade and weaken the position? Also with spiller showing flashes splitting time would help both of them stay healthy...

[I hate the Bills !]

I agree trade Fred, he is coveted by many teams and we can get a 2nd for sure, then that pick has to be used to get a better player. I love Fred but Ralph isnt going to pay a over 30 Rb a big contract. Get what we can get for him a 2nd and a 5th.

[John Cocktosten]

This, with a little less anger. :-)

 

When Chan mysteriously started moving away from FredEx and more towards Fitz, things went south in a big way. When Fred got hurt, the bottom completely fell out.

 

Fitz couldn't handle shouldering the entire offense, he was much, much better when Fred was the centerpiece.

 

Fred is a good personality, well-liked by the fans, and a leader that has another good couple years left in him. I like that Fred has played with a little chip on his shoulder, and am a little afraid of giving him a big contract for fear of that chip disappearing, but that wouldn't stop me.

 

Anger comes along with being a fan of this franchise!

 

One more point about FJ. The guys has done nothing but be very productive throughout his career. He's been silent while two RBs were selected to replace him and what happens when they finally make him the feature? He's one of the best RBs in the league. If the Bills are going to pay anyone one this team, it should be him! Kelsay, Pears and Fitz have done next to nothing but FJ who has been very productive and at times great is one of the lowest paid starters in the league. But this is the Buffalo Bills and ineptitude in their game.

 

Give FJ an extension, make sure Spiller gets 10-15 touches per, scrap this spread BS offense and become a run heavy team.

[PDaDdy]

I definitely don't agree with getting rid of Freddie. Sign him to a contract appropriate for what will be a 31 year old RB in 2012 and use BOTH he AND Spiller. Maybe that way Freddie won't end up missing the last games of the season like the last 2 years. When your #1 is going to be 31 you can't run him into the ground when you have a kid on the bench that has been getting better every game behind our mediocre O-line who is missing it's best player Eric Wood.

 

I to find it idiotic and disgusting that people are calling Spiller a luxury pick and a bust when he wasn't given a chance on the field. Well lookie lookie. The kid gets on the field and get's better every week. He's averaging 5 yards per carry and had 7.6 against a supposedly good Miami rushing D. Keeping this weapon on the bench and riding Freddie into the ground was dumb.

 

The only good thing about Freddy's injury is that the Bills had no "Choice" but to play Spiller. If Freddy never goes down we could have had ourselves another Maybin situation where we now get to see the guy sack and pressure the crap out of us 2 weeks a year. If Spiller never got these chances we might have gotten rid of him only to watch him tear it up like every other RB we have gotten rid of because morons on this board keep calling for their heads and run them out of town.

 

Speaking of Choice. We don't want to run Spiller into the ground either but why is he in on so many plays? When Freddy was the man all of the rest of the RBs got a total of about 3 carries per game. Now that Spiller is the man Choice is on the field all the time despite CJ out performing him by 5.0 to 3.0 yards per carry. Ridiculous.

Edited December 19, 2011 by PDaDdy

[1billsfan]

As it stands now bills have 10th pick they would only need to move up to 6 or 7 to have a legitimate shot at rg3 so they won't have to give up as many picks to move up as you think. I do however disagree with trading Freddy away why take a strength and a position with depth an make that trade and weaken the position? Also with spiller showing flashes splitting time would help both of them stay healthy...

 

There is no doubt going to be a bidding war on the Barkley and RG III slots 2nd and 3rd picks in the draft. There will be us and 4 or 5 other teams involved in the bidding. So the price will be very high to get to that spot.

 

As for Jackson, the way this season has turned out with Fitzpatrick completely coming apart at the seems, the game plan needs to change. With Fitzpatrick's fall, this team will now be on a 2 or more year schedule for the playoffs if they do go ahead and pick a QB in the 1st round. A 30 year old Jackson just wouldn't fit the new Bills model. Spiller is better than Jackson and Jackson will not accept a lesser roll on a team where he will be too old when they finally are good enough for the playoffs.

[robert cohen]

It doesn't matter how well CJ performs for this team, there are waaaay too many people just wanting the kid to be a bust around here. I am not one of them. The argument is that he was a luxury pick, which I still find laughable, since we have SO MANY play makers and depth on this team. He can be an every down back, but for some reason people love to make blind assumptions that he can't be. Look at his physical stats, he's bigger and taller than Reggie Bush, He's taller than Thurman was, and weighs within 6lbs of the guy, but yeah, he can't play every down. Give me a break. He and Freddie are the 2 most talented guys on the team, and past Steve Johnson, there is nothing. I hope he stays a Bill, because if the front office runs this guy out of town, you can expect the franchise to unravel exponentially.

spiller is our future... we invested a 1st on him and we didnt collapse cuz freddy went down.. we collapsed cuz teams figured out fitz cant go downfield.. spiller breaks run and that TD he got yesterday, freddy did not have the speed to do.. whoever thinks a contender that NEEDS a rb wont trade a late 2nd for fred is nuts... Freddy is our LUXURY pick.. not spiller.. i loved this kid in college and was dying for him to get touches and was now that he is showing hes got game and not a bust we are in a very good position... him playing primarily at WR also helps him cuz chan likes to throw the ball to the backs and he got valuable time watching freddy pick holes while he worked on his route running which will only make him better.. if we are gonna rebuild, we need to do it right. Nix has said over and over they want to do it thru draft... time to prove it.. spiller was OUR 1ST ROUND top 10 overall pick... he MUST be "the guy".. whoever thinks we cant get a LATE 2nd for freddy is nuts... spiller has improved every aspect of his game and handled being on the sidelines very well for a top 10 guy.. he moved to WR when we needed depth there.. his blocking has improved and more importantly his vision to find holes which was his biggest weakness has gotten much better... hes becoming much more patient and i think he learned that by watching freddy. Freddy is a slasher who finds holes, spiller is a burner that when he finds holes, he can break away and hit the home run.. even when freddy broke big ones... it was like watching slow motion... spiller still runs east to west a little 2 much but if hes "the guy" and has an offseason like that, he will be a stud next yr and easily be a 1300 yard 10 td back with at least 50 catches and be a great first round pick, not a bust.. u dont draft a guy top 10 to be a gimmick guy, u dont draft him to be "the guy".. ppl here are so happy to label guy a bust an always look at glass as half empty not half full... This regime has a yr or 2 left.. if they dont show big progress , they wont be around... they made the mistake by paying fitz, dont make same mistake by paying Freddy. Let him get paid... BY SOMEONE else, and let him help our process in moving forward. PERFECT destination is GB. would be a very late 2nd which we could use to get a 2nd pass rusher which we should use our own 2nd on another pass rusher.. We draft the QB in the first and this team HAS A FUTURE and the right building blocks.

 

Anger comes along with being a fan of this franchise!

 

One more point about FJ. The guys has done nothing but be very productive throughout his career. He's been silent while two RBs were selected to replace him and what happens when they finally make him the feature? He's one of the best RBs in the league. If the Bills are going to pay anyone one this team, it should be him! Kelsay, Pears and Fitz have done next to nothing but FJ who has been very productive and at times great is one of the lowest paid starters in the league. But this is the Buffalo Bills and ineptitude in their game.

 

Give FJ an extension, make sure Spiller gets 10-15 touches per, scrap this spread BS offense and become a run heavy team.

 

Chan offense is not build to be a run first offense.. Chan's style will not change.. hes an offensive guy.. 75% of our snaps our out of shotgun and he likes to throw to set up run.. even when freddy was running wild, alot of his touches cam out of shotgun. We dont NEED both.. we need a friggin WR to be a deep threat and resign Stevie.. with stevie, a FA and nelson in the slot, our WR corps would be well above average. Paying freddy is the gentlemanly thing to do but is the WRONG BUSINESS move and football move.. we can build around spiller, follow the strategy they have been preaching.. BUILD BY THE DRAFT. this yr is loaded with talent and if somehow he can get RG3, that like having a 2nd RB.. we dont need freddy. then spend rest of draft on D and throw in a mid round OL to build depth.

[apuszczalowski]

WHY DOES IT ALWAYS HAVE TO BE ONE OR THE OTHER?????????????????

 

WHY CAN'T THEY JUST DO LIKE ALMOST EVERY OTHER TEAM IN THE LEAGUE AND RUN WITH 2 GOOD RB'S??????????????????????

 

That was the whole point that they tried to do when they took McGahee, they planned to go heavy running game with a tandem of Henry and McGahee. Fans, who are always crying about how the Bills need to be run first, kicked and screamed about wasting a pick, and Henry wanted out. Then you have McGahee and Lynch and everyone runs mcGahee out of town for not being a Buffalo homer. Then with Lynch and Freddy, the fans run lynch out of town cause he is a "thug" and will surely be suspended for the season real soon. Now with Spiller and Jackson, its "lets run Jackson out of town cause the Bills surely won't pay him what he wants and we can use the Draft pick" (Same thing said about Evans this offseason, now that its happened it wasn't good enough and the front office is inept for getting rid of him and not seeing the future need for WR's on this roster)

[robert cohen]

WHY DOES IT ALWAYS HAVE TO BE ONE OR THE OTHER?????????????????

 

WHY CAN'T THEY JUST DO LIKE ALMOST EVERY OTHER TEAM IN THE LEAGUE AND RUN WITH 2 GOOD RB'S??????????????????????

 

That was the whole point that they tried to do when they took McGahee, they planned to go heavy running game with a tandem of Henry and McGahee. Fans, who are always crying about how the Bills need to be run first, kicked and screamed about wasting a pick, and Henry wanted out. Then you have McGahee and Lynch and everyone runs mcGahee out of town for not being a Buffalo homer. Then with Lynch and Freddy, the fans run lynch out of town cause he is a "thug" and will surely be suspended for the season real soon. Now with Spiller and Jackson, its "lets run Jackson out of town cause the Bills surely won't pay him what he wants and we can use the Draft pick" (Same thing said about Evans this offseason, now that its happened it wasn't good enough and the front office is inept for getting rid of him and not seeing the future need for WR's on this roster)

VERY SIMPLE....

 

Chan;'s offense is not a run heavy offense.. having both is a luxury and not needed. whether we like it or not, as long as chan in our coach, his style of play is a spread offense... Ppl ether have it have accept or stop complaining... Chan is not gonna change the way he built an offense. He needs the right QB and the right WR and a speed back.. Spiller fits this mold better than freddy... We arent running him out of town... we are doing whats best for him and the team. He deserves to get paid and he should get paid.. BY SOMEONE else.. anyone that thinks we are a team that will become a run heavy team is nuts, its just not gonna happen so stop praying for it.. We need another WR desperately and the right types of WR's are out there in free agency.

[Dorkington]

Clearly we should draft a RB in the first round and trade one of our current guys away.

[FreakPop]

It doesn't matter how well CJ performs for this team, there are waaaay too many people just wanting the kid to be a bust around here. I am not one of them. The argument is that he was a luxury pick, which I still find laughable, since we have SO MANY play makers and depth on this team. He can be an every down back, but for some reason people love to make blind assumptions that he can't be. Look at his physical stats, he's bigger and taller than Reggie Bush, He's taller than Thurman was, and weighs within 6lbs of the guy, but yeah, he can't play every down. Give me a break. He and Freddie are the 2 most talented guys on the team, and past Steve Johnson, there is nothing. I hope he stays a Bill, because if the front office runs this guy out of town, you can expect the franchise to unravel exponentially.

 

 

Not sure where you are getting your information from?

 

Yahoo sports has CJ listed at 5'11 197 lbs and R Bush listed at 6'0" 203 lbs.

[1billsfan]

100% on the money! What is it with these idiots that have this one is awesome the other must suck philosophy? Bad teams don't get better by running good talent out of town and then burning resources to fill the hole they just created. Do what every other team in the damn NFL does. RUN TWO BACKS!!!!

 

Fred Jackson won't be cool playing second fiddle to Spiller and this team needs to draft a QB making Jackson too old when they are good enough to compete.

[PDaDdy]

VERY SIMPLE....

 

Chan;'s offense is not a run heavy offense.. having both is a luxury and not needed. whether we like it or not, as long as chan in our coach, his style of play is a spread offense... Ppl ether have it have accept or stop complaining... Chan is not gonna change the way he built an offense. He needs the right QB and the right WR and a speed back.. Spiller fits this mold better than freddy... We arent running him out of town... we are doing whats best for him and the team. He deserves to get paid and he should get paid.. BY SOMEONE else.. anyone that thinks we are a team that will become a run heavy team is nuts, its just not gonna happen so stop praying for it.. We need another WR desperately and the right types of WR's are out there in free agency.

 

There isn't a single team in the NFL that only needs one RB. Especially a 30 year old who will be 31 next year and wants, deservedly so, to get paid. Having two is NOT a luxury. I repeat. NOT a luxury. It is a necessity. Spread offense or not we need 2 guys. Spread doesn't mean you aren't going to run the ball. Spread means you run a spread formation which we are very effective running the ball out of when the RB doesn't receive first contact behind the line of scrimmage.

 

I do agree we need WRs. Again instead of keeping talent like Lee Evans for our spread offense we let him go and have a collection of IR reserve and practice squad players for Fitz to throw to.

[xsoldier54]

Are you guys kidding me! Have you learned nothing about this season. I'm sure that you guys were the ones starting "I told you so" threads when the Bills were 5-2. Have you noticed what the other Bills outcast RBs are doing around the league. Fj was clearly one of the best RBs in the league this year and you want to get rid of him now because CJ had ONE good game?

 

Btw, this isn't Madden 2012. You're not getting a 2nd rd pick for a 30 year old RB. Do you know how stupid that sounds? Pay Freddy what he deserves and mix Spiller in more. If Gailey would have been spelling FJ more maybe FJ would not have gotten hurt. Ridiculous thread.

FJ is this team's best player. You don't trade your best player. You build around him. This thread is ridiculous. CJ is doing well filling in, but what this team needs to do is find more ways to get him the ball when Freddie is healthy. Line them both up in the backfield and use some deception so that the defense actually has to try and figure out which one is getting the ball and how. What the Bills do is so easily read by defenses it is ridiculous. I can predict what they will do on almost every play based solely on formation. If I can do it, opposing defenses certainly can. Don't use either CJ or Freddy, use them both.